[P4AU] Marie Gameplay Discussion

[TheOneTrueScrub]

Yeah, the eyes are useful against her projectiles if she doesn't reflect them (the arrows will go behind the eye). 2D is pretty handy in that mu. As for Swagkami and Mitsuru....good luck lol

[Greater Force]

If anyone can give solid insight on something I'd be grateful... I am encountering this problem more and more, especially today. What is Marie's answer to skilled turtling? Her overhead is god awlful and it seems AoA is the only answer, but if the opposition is good enough to react..., even that is a no go.

I mean, I can corner someone all day, but nothing seems to be mixupy enough to open a competent player up.

This is a serious problem I'm sorta clueless how to fix.

[TheOneTrueScrub]

If anyone can give solid insight on something I'd be grateful... I am encountering this problem more and more, especially today. What is Marie's answer to skilled turtling? Her overhead is god awlful and it seems AoA is the only answer, but if the opposition is good enough to react..., even that is a no go.

I mean, I can corner someone all day, but nothing seems to be mixupy enough to open a competent player up.

This is a serious problem I'm sorta clueless how to fix.

 

 

I thought I was the only one having this issue lol. When that happens I start mixing up grabs and grab feints  with hop 5C. Present canceling also helps. I don't know any crossup tricks with Marie outside of 236D in the corner 

[Buttface]

set up 236D on knockdown and then roll through them to cross them up

 

as for dealing with turtling, use the dash cancelabilit on 5C to mix them up with 5A or throw

You can end blockstrings in sweep and then restart pressure with 5B or 5A if they're close enough

you can also do stuff like 5BB>sweep or 5BB>6>throw

[Greater Force]

Sweeping after 5BB is something that actually became a bad habit for me (it's DPable). I didn't know 5C had a dash cancel, going to fool with that a bit. Thanks.

[TheOneTrueScrub]

Buttface, do you know the frame data when you dash-cancel 5C?

[Buttface]

not specifically, but anyone can 5A you out unless you dash forward and then block.

 

as for sweep after 5BB, you have to establish respect by baiting some DPs if they get to comfortable DPing you out when you try to keep pressuring. You can also delay the second hit to make it plus, but of course then there's a different DPable gap.

[Buttface]

also, 2.0 changelist is out

5C reach significantly increased

chocolate and cloud become active sooner, SB version comes out faster

SB Run Amok is faster and is a more solid hitconfirm

[RurouniLoneWolf]

Ummmmm, did we really need a longer reaching 5C? I can guarantee you ASW the reason I don't push this button in neutral often has little to do with it not having enough reach, lol. Still, I guess this is still pretty nice. The longer reach will make it harder to miss in general. I'm curious to see how this one plays out.

 

Very happy with all the summon buffs for cloud and presents. I was kind of disappointed in the strength of these two in the current version. Maybe we'll be able to use them for oki if the start up has gotten fast enough.

 

Looking good so far but got to wait and see the ninja nerfs. I'd be surprised if ASW has done nothing to j.C.

[Buttface]

Presents are already really good for oki in the corner, though

if anything, chocolate being active faster might ruin our ability to mix them up with a run up grab before it triggers

5C having better reach is great with the new C buff that gives C normals persona invuln on startup, though the recovery is still going to be an issue

[RurouniLoneWolf]

They are? Damn, I'm behind on Marie tech. Got to catch up. Well, hopefully, this new change makes it good midscreen as well. Not being able to throw them before the present activates would suck but throwing them after the present is done rampaging is still an option so it might not be too bad. 

[Buttface]

sweep is faster

5C range is huge, like 60-70% of the screen

can combo into 236AB off ground starter(!!!!!)

236C/D is faster

meter only increases by 2 in snow(?)

5C>2C doesn't work due to increased range (not sure if always or sometimes)

5BB>sweep>236AB is harder(?)

[Pen_Ninja]

My thoughts...

 

sweep is faster

Sounds good

5C range is huge, like 60-70% of the screen

W-what?

can combo into 236AB off ground starter(!!!!!)

Hell yeah! Big damage off a bunch of stuff, even against non-j.C loop characters.

236C/D is faster

Cool I guess? knockdown to 236D might have less gap now?

meter only increases by 2 in snow(?)

Ugh... Why make weather even more useless?

5C>2C doesn't work due to increased range (not sure if always or sometimes)

I figure this is probably just for when you're outside of normal 2C range... 

5BB>sweep>236AB is harder(?)

Why would 5BB > sweep be harder when sweep is faster? 5BB untech time nerfs?

[Greater Force]

5C is THAT big now? I'm imagining Liz's Ziodyne like screen control, just more focused around Marie. I can't wait to see a vid of that. Sounds like a exaggeration...

5C>2C might not be a huge loss as TheOneTrueScrub said... but I will feel it's loss. I suffer from "combo inability syndrome" and that was one of my go to moves lol. Hoping you're right Pen_Ninja. About it depending on the distance.

5BB into Sweep was DPable anyway, although it's maybe the 236AB add on that's harder?

Still more days of the test to go, so... wonder if anything else regarding Marie will show up.

[Buttface]

what I imagine the 5C buff is is that Kaguya comes out in front of you instead of in the same spot

do 5C>omc>backdash and that's where I'm imagining she'll come out

 

also 236D is now a long range version of 236C

 

card super damage decreased significantly, sun does only 1k and rain does only 400 (I assume at the end of combos, and a lot of supers took big hits too; Minazuki's EX Moonsmasher now only does 3k on CH)

 

something weird about j.C but he's not sure what yet

[Buttface]

this is my best guess as to what new 5C looks like 

[TheOneTrueScrub]

So, the only useful weather to have would be....cloudy?

[Buttface]

I don't know what gave you that idea, Sun is great for the damage boost and Snow is still the best because of the SP regen even if the regen is reduced in 2.0 (and I'm not sure that that's actually the case).

[TerraMaki]

So, the only useful weather to have would be....cloudy?

 

With the changes to 236D, 5C and her present's start-ups her cloudy could really be oppressive in keep away.

[Greater Force]

It seems Marie is getting turned into a more zonerlike direction with this patch. I personally like it. 236D saves me tons of meter against Yukari/Yukiko at full screen, yay!

[TheOneTrueScrub]

It seems Marie is getting turned into a more zonerlike direction with this patch. I personally like it. 236D saves me tons of meter against Yukari/Yukiko at full screen, yay!

 

I sure hope so. Marie feels more like a zoner to me.

 

 

With the changes to 236D, 5C and her present's start-ups her cloudy could really be oppressive in keep away.

 

Yeah, that's what I was thinking! Maybe the reduce regen during snow isn't as bad as I think it's going to be, assuming these changes will be set in stone.

[Buttface]

Marie is still a setplay pressure character, not a zoner.

the 5C change is to offset the atrocious whiff recovery, so now it can almost never whiff

the 236D change is likely to allow you to end combos after 5C that 236C wouldn't reach because of the new 5C range

[TheOneTrueScrub]

Marie is still a setplay pressure character, not a zoner.

the 5C change is to offset the atrocious whiff recovery, so now it can almost never whiff

the 236D change is likely to allow you to end combos after 5C that 236C wouldn't reach because of the new 5C range

 

 

Oh....I've been playing her the wrong way.

[TerraMaki]

I've also found success in being defensive and throwing stuff, especially in snowy. People really aren't patient.

[TheOneTrueScrub]

I've also found success in being defensive and throwing stuff, especially in snowy. People really aren't patient.

 

Pretty much how I win my matches.