[CS2] Ragna General Discussion

[St1ckBuG]

So today while I was in a room with Titanium and St1ck, I realized something. Against a D mashing Noel (A slightly intelligent one at the least, who knows when to strategically use their drive in strings), I am helpless.

Other than 6A seems to be the best option since it stuffs 2D completely and has good active frames, but things like 5B, 5C and even 2C were getting stuffed like none other. Horrible experience.

Then again, I'm pretty sure my Ragna gradually became worse over the course of that room due to the lag spikes.

EDIT - I also realized I suck at tracking movement, Titanium was all over my ass on the approach and I couldn't predict shit

I was gonna write up something that broke down what you should be doing, but this is dustloop, and good advice like that gets you banned... so I'll just just give you this:

Chill out and stagger/jump-cancel your blockstrings. You can probably DP any of her D normals/specials on 5D/2D blocked (I know her drive moves got buffed, but they're not + on block).

Ragna gets better with lag, stop foolin yourself.

[Sesshyru]

The Jersey back handed pimp slap knows when to strike...

Fear.

[Blue Ipod Nano]

CS or CT? just curious o.o

edit: oh ultima, i just watched a video of kaqn playing ragna, and he did ...BE -> 6A -> (HJC) j.D -> (JC) j.C -> BE -> 5D -> D.ID... was wondering if that could be an alternative to ...BE -> (dash) 6D -> D -> (JC) j.C -> BE... ? or would that be only on CH?

edit2: shit i have alot of questions today sorry guys >_> anyway:

was wondering for this combo: TK GH -> Keri Age, dash 5B-2C-5D(DC), 6A(HJC), j.C(JC), j.C -> BE, 6D-j.D(JC), j.C -> BE, dash 5D -> 623D -> 236C -> 214D do you have to TK the GH for dash 5B-2C-5D to connect? or can it be a regular GH? and would a GH from the air qualify for this combo?

and i was also wondering if you don't TK the GH, do you just do dash 5B-5D(DC) ? instead of the above? (cause 2C might whiff)

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

It has to be TK GH for the 2C to hit, otherwise they are floated entirely too high. Dash 5B-5D works off of a regular GH and is standard for him, the main difference is that combos started off of TK GH do more damage.

Speaking of, yo Prototype, GAUNTLET HADES GAUNTLET HADES GAUNTLET HADES

[Blue Ipod Nano]

Thank you good sir! just a few more days til CS release! ^^

Edit: sorry another question: what can u follow up CH 5D with? it seems to knock them too far out for any follow ups.

[Prototype909]

It has to be TK GH for the 2C to hit, otherwise they are floated entirely too high. Dash 5B-5D works off of a regular GH and is standard for him, the main difference is that combos started off of TK GH do more damage.

Speaking of, yo Prototype, GAUNTLET HADES GAUNTLET HADES GAUNTLET HADES

Americans yo, can't block dem overheads (Especially in online lag)

EDIT - Damn Beast, give me a game already

EDIT EDIT - Something tells me you were going for an astral

EDIT EDIT EDIT - ASTRAL JUKED

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT - WHY AM I ALWAYS SO CLOSE YET SO FAR

EDITx5 - Well, this has been an amazing lesson on spacing and the power of 5B at the very least

EDITx6 - It's also been a lesson on why I should never do GH ever again

EDITx7 - Among other things

EDITxAstral - Your greed is betraying you

Edit 28 losses later - Well, I'd love to say I know what I was doing wrong after all those ass whoopings but unfortunately that isn't the case

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

lol I am so greedy for the troll that is Astral

In general, you need to calm down and try to react more than anticipate. You were guaranteed to do a 6A midscreen when I wasn't anywhere near you or even in the air sometimes. Your spacing got a LOT better as the matches went on, but sometimes I dunno why you chose to do certain things. You also need to learn more optimal strings. Lots of 2B in strings with no followup, which is why I was always trying to hit you after blocking it (it's -5 on block). You CAN use 2B in strings and stop, then reset the string, but your opponent has to be conditioned not to do anything. And in order for you to dash up after a blocked 2B to re-start a string, your opponent has to be REALLY well-conditioned, scared, or just not paying attention.

One string I used a lot that I straight up stole from watching vids is 5B-6A to whatever. This string is GREAT. On a grounded hit, you chain into 5C and start a combo. If your opponent backdashes, you can just go straight into a highjump combo from the 6A. And 6A on block gives you so many options to keep your opponent guessing as to what's next. You can always 2C, which is completely safe on block. You have 3C for low or 6B for overhead, 5D is good too, or 6D-j.D to reset pressure. Just a really incredible series overall.

In general though, just chill out and try to play safer. React as much as possible, only anticipate and make educated guesses when you have to.

[Prototype909]

There were so many times I nearly slapped myself in the face for missing a forward super jump while I was on P2 side of the screen and horribly dropping a combo because of it (Such as jumping straight up, or jumping backwards some how...God knows how that works out).

Halfway through our matches I realized 2B was getting me nowhere but dead, but I'm so conditioned to using it (Not knowing anything else to do also contributed) I just couldn't stop myself even if it meant eating 5B every single time.

As for the 6A, that was more of something that I just started getting paranoid on as the matches continued.

[Blue Ipod Nano]

mmmmm =[ i want to play with you guys! i havent played ragna in MONTHS (like 9 months?)

[Prototype909]

Also, besides 5B-6A, what are some other strings to invest in on a "My first blockstring" level? Most of the stuff I had been going for B.A. (Before Asswhoop), was dashing resets; which against somebody who won't respond to conditioning I've found, is worthless.

[prokiller88]

I think the 5B>5C is the most basic blockstring because ragna has so many options after that. If you hit them with that you can do 5D into an air combo, if they block low you can use a tk gh but be sure that you have meter to burn in case they block that too. You can do 3C to make them block low, if thats blocked just jump cancel away. You can also do a hell's fang but be warned, if they ib it you are gonna get hit hard.

[-Ladon-]

I think the 5B>5C is the most basic blockstring because ragna has so many options after that. If you hit them with that you can do 5D into an air combo, if they block low you can use a tk gh but be sure that you have meter to burn in case they block that too. You can do 3C to make them block low, if thats blocked just jump cancel away. You can also do a hell's fang but be warned, if they ib it you are gonna get hit hard.

no, explore your blockstrings, comitting to 5C is dangerous.

TB is right on a lot of things, 5B-6A is the start of amazing blockstring mixup, you still have a lot of options after the 6A goes off and still have a last-resort JCable on block normal to use if you need it deeper in the string(sup 3C) and you can go into a 6D-j.D reset mixup or just whiff the j.D and pressure into more mixup. don't forget we now have the pleasure of 2C being +1 on block, which means you can 2C, watch them block and you are completely safe, even on IB it becomes -4 which is not punishable by normals, and if you're throwing a 2C out in your string people will be less likely to mash through it, netting a fatal is srs shit with ragna.

also dead spike cancels mid-string and very occasional throws help.

[FunkyTofuMonsta]

Hey, byran, if you land a 5D CH (or any CH for that matter) usually what you want to do is dash 5B 5D DC jB jC jC j214C 66D jD jC j214C 5D > whatever

its pretty stable

and hey, i remember linking 2C off normal GH though o_o it was corner, i think it was against tao?

[FlyingVe]

i remember linking 2C off normal GH though o_o it was corner, i think it was against tao?

I think I've seen that done midscreen too, but the timing it probably really tight.

[VR-Raiden]

I remember hearing 6A has more horizontal range in CS, is that true?

[-Ladon-]

I remember hearing 6A has more horizontal range in CS, is that true?

Sure does, mostly noticeable against characters 5B-6A after GH didn't work

[Blue Ipod Nano]

Hey, byran, if you land a 5D CH (or any CH for that matter) usually what you want to do is dash 5B 5D DC jB jC jC j214C 66D jD jC j214C 5D > whatever

its pretty stable

and hey, i remember linking 2C off normal GH though o_o it was corner, i think it was against tao?

OH SNAP ITS SKD whats good man! holy crap i cant believe you remember'd me @_@ (im that scrubby ass ragna in CTF) :p hows it going? and thanks for the help. i just want to ask, do you have problems getting 66D after BE? because i cant seem to get that (maybe because i tried it on my computer?)

[FlyingVe]

Sure does, mostly noticeable against characters 5B-6A after GH didn't work

I think it's range is only extended during the last few active frames. The reason alot of the new Ragna stuff works is because of increased untechable times on moves like 5D and GH.

[x1jinchu1x]

22C, dash 5B is far from necessary for regular combos, it's really just to push his max damage a little bit higher. Most people will probably opt for double Belial Edge combos for ease of use and for meter gain anyway.

In regards to actually landing the link, it's really something you just need to feel out. Learn to time your forward presses so that you dash as soon as you recover and make sure you don't do accidental 6Bs instead of dash 5Bs. Oh, and make sure Stagger Recovery is on so you don't need to worry about blue heat combos. I'm afraid I can't really help you much other than that.

On a related note, a video to go with my last post in the combos section. A couple of the combos shown are taken from pre-existing combo videos, but doing them myself allowed me to jot down some notes for future reference.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w18xQVNU2OU

As I said I'm just starting to try Ragna out so I'd say I'm definitely still a beginner when it comes to him. Could you tell me how that double belial edge combo would go?

[KayEff]

(mid-screen to corner) 5B, 3C, 5D (DC), 5C (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, 6D, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C

Damage: 4010

(mid-screen to corner) j.C, 5B / 2C, 3C, 2B, 5C (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, 6D, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C

Damage: 4158 (off of j.C, 5B), 4318 (off of 2C)

(mid-screen to corner) j.C, (dash) 2C, 3C, 5D (DC), 6A (HJC), j.C, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, 6D, j.D (JC), j.C, j.214C, dash 5D, 22C

Damage: 4513

Just a few double BE combos I found in the combo thread.

[Blue Ipod Nano]

what do i do against an opponent that uses 2a and 5a when im doing 6B and doing ID when im trying to mixup ?

[FlyingVe]

Frame trap to deal with mashing. A good one in CT are 5A>2C and 6A>2C, or otherwise just vary the speed of your attacked. If they mash ID, just stop you string (instead of doing 6B) and block. They will soar gracefully into the air, and you will have 30 frames to figure out how to make them pay. I recommend, 5C>6C>GH>5B>6A>(HJC)>air loop

[Blue Ipod Nano]

Frame trap to deal with mashing. A good one in CT are 5A>2C and 6A>2C, or otherwise just vary the speed of your attacked. If they mash ID, just stop you string (instead of doing 6B) and block. They will soar gracefully into the air, and you will have 30 frames to figure out how to make them pay. I recommend, 5C>6C>GH>5B>6A>(HJC)>air loop

thanks, talking about CS but it really doesn't matter. what do you mean by "frame trap"? and 5A will whiff if hes crouching right? o.o

[FlyingVe]

2A works too, and those frame traps are stronger in CS because of Fatal Counters. The idea behind a frame trap is that there is enough of a gap between two attacks that a quick attack can start up, but not go active. In this case, the 2C will hit them (for a CH) before their mashed out A attack would hit you.

[Prototype909]

GGs to TitaniumBeast again, I still need to work on reacting to shit in general but I think I'm improving as far as hitconfirming and knowing my zone of attack goes. Ah well, as I keep playing I should improve with time.