BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 @Sophistocat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVWuq1gAoTc 4 directional throws and 5 throws into corners can directly link to shippu, also the projectile of shippu can land on 4 direction throws if properly timed only useful if you KNOW they are going to die. Nice renka>zantetsu's One thing about fighting ragna with haku is that you are only gonna eat CH's if you try and force you way throw his block strings there is a reason why you have counters, start using 2/6d against block strings and next time you see an obvious carnage scissor coming grab/counter/yukikaze (only use yukikaze for a cool dd finish tho xD) In you renka block string if you REALLY wanna go into guren pause and then do it don't cancel the second hit of renka, that way you MAY be able to get a CH from a really aggressive opponent which are mainly ragna's. Use your hop specials when ragna is charging in for attacks they'll rarely expect an invincible attack coming. I also would not advise using 3c at the beginning of a round unless you KNOW it is going to land, 3c is shit. Very nice follow ups to a ch 3c and air grab combos that is all I can say from you match with Mimeblade.
MisoSowee Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I'll say stuff toooooo :D First.. my color! 00:23 : you can follow-up that 6c CH with 3c 00:32 : for the falling j.C it's best not to mash (not sure if you are) and to just learn the timing. I used to mash thinking I'd get it asap but tbh it does the complete opposite Q_Q Use j.B if you're in lagggg 1:00 : for DP punish you might want 6c - 5c- 623a~a - etc. (that works right? I actually haven't tried it personally but in my head it works.. i think ) 1:20 : don't forget to delay the guren. And (if you haven't started already) it's probably best to start getting down the timing for guren - hop - 5b- etc. 1:23 : off of 6a CH 5c - 623a~a - etc. is best, especially because you would've carried him into the corner 1:40 : 5c CH leads into everything! hit confirmmmm :O 1:59 : if I were you I wouldn't do throws on wake-up simply because most of the time they're going to land a hit within 9 frames. Against other, slower characters it's decent but definitely not against Ragna D: 4:53 : do be careful not to use 3c. Ragna can punish it almost from any range with 5b. Rest of the match I wasn't really focusing Btw I won't say the same thing twice so that's probably why I didn't say anything for the second half... btw why don't I see you in the chat? We should play a few matches~ I need a hakumen to looop with carl :3
Blade Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 @Sophistocat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVWuq1gAoTc 4 directional throws and 5 throws into corners can directly link to shippu, also the projectile of shippu can land on 4 direction throws if properly timed only useful if you KNOW they are going to die. Nice renka>zantetsu's One thing about fighting ragna with haku is that you are only gonna eat CH's if you try and force you way throw his block strings there is a reason why you have counters, start using 2/6d against block strings and next time you see an obvious carnage scissor coming grab/counter/yukikaze (only use yukikaze for a cool dd finish tho xD) In you renka block string if you REALLY wanna go into guren pause and then do it don't cancel the second hit of renka, that way you MAY be able to get a CH from a really aggressive opponent which are mainly ragna's. Use your hop specials when ragna is charging in for attacks they'll rarely expect an invincible attack coming. I also would not advise using 3c at the beginning of a round unless you KNOW it is going to land, 3c is shit. Very nice follow ups to a ch 3c and air grab combos that is all I can say from you match with Mimeblade. I wish I was given advice for fighting him...lol
MisoSowee Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I don't know ragna though... I can say outright never use the follow-up for hell's fang :\ and punish 3c and 6c
Sophisticat Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Ha, nice analysis I wasn't expecting. Cool stuff, I'll get to responding now. Though if you want a sort-of vid of one of the runaways I've been talking about, the closest I've got in my uploads is this one. I wasn't being too serious in that one, though. Another note: if you read the description on my vid vs. Blade, you'll notice I mention there was lag. So some stuff didn't come out right for either of us. I'll rectify stuff if I have to. @Sophisticat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVWuq1gAoTc 4 directional throws and 5 throws into corners can directly link to shippu, also the projectile of shippu can land on 4 direction throws if properly timed only useful if you KNOW they are going to die. What do you mean by all these throws? I'm only aware of back- and front-throw... unless you also include counters? Nice renka>zantetsu's One thing about fighting ragna with haku is that you are only gonna eat CH's if you try and force you way throw his block strings there is a reason why you have counters, start using 2/6d against block strings and next time you see an obvious carnage scissor coming grab/counter/yukikaze (only use yukikaze for a cool dd finish tho xD) Yeah, I guess I could use counters more. I'm not in the habit of using them since I usually just get punished for it. For now, I'm focusing more on practicing IB'ing stuff so it should be easier to counter things. For Carnage Scissors, I prefer a 5c CH because it's a good opportunity to get in some good damage whereas I have more instances where I can do throws. Yukikaze on random supers once in a while is cool, though. :P In you renka block string if you REALLY wanna go into guren pause and then do it don't cancel the second hit of renka, that way you MAY be able to get a CH from a really aggressive opponent which are mainly ragna's. Use your hop specials when ragna is charging in for attacks they'll rarely expect an invincible attack coming. Hum, I was thinking of replacing gurren with kishuu -> throw, but I guess that works too. I find hop hotaru hard to use against a good Ragna. There's less time to react and working the distance can be tricky. I also would not advise using 3c at the beginning of a round unless you KNOW it is going to land, 3c is shit. Very nice follow ups to a ch 3c and air grab combos that is all I can say from you match with Mimeblade. Yeah, 3c at the beginning is a bad habit. I've switched to 5c, but I keep doing 3c sometimes in the hope of a CH. I know 3c is bad, but I just really like the move for the tensionless meter on CH or knockdown if not. It's like a drug! Blade got wise to the air throws, though. Good stuff while it lasted. I'll say stuff toooooo :D First.. my color! 00:23 : you can follow-up that 6c CH with 3c 00:32 : for the falling j.C it's best not to mash (not sure if you are) and to just learn the timing. I used to mash thinking I'd get it asap but tbh it does the complete opposite Q_Q Use j.B if you're in lagggg I usually do 6c ch -> 3c... just didn't do it here. I think it either lagged right there or I misjudged the height. I do alternate between j.C and j.B depending on height, but I don't mash either of them (you don't have to anyway). 1:00 : for DP punish you might want 6c - 5c- 623a~a - etc. (that works right? I actually haven't tried it personally but in my head it works.. i think ) 1:20 : don't forget to delay the guren. And (if you haven't started already) it's probably best to start getting down the timing for guren - hop - 5b- etc. 1:23 : off of 6a CH 5c - 623a~a - etc. is best, especially because you would've carried him into the corner. 5c is better than 6c I find. It's easy to mis-time the 6c. Since this is online, I prefer gurren -> kishuu -> 2c -> combo. But yes, I can do gurren -> hop -> 5b -> combo. Hum, here it's just preference I guess. You can do 6a CH -> 5c -> gurren -> walk forward -> 5c -> gurren -> etc. for greater distance pushing. I didn't do my usual gurren -> kishuu because... I don't know why. I know it would have pushed him into the corner. 6a -> 6c after that was just lag. 1:40 : 5c CH leads into everything! hit confirmmmm :O 1:59 : if I were you I wouldn't do throws on wake-up simply because most of the time they're going to land a hit within 9 frames. Against other, slower characters it's decent but definitely not against Ragna D: 4:53 : do be careful not to use 3c. Ragna can punish it almost from any range with 5b. Yeah, still having problems following up on 5c CH's, but in that case I was just thinking "mash out!!1!". It's getting better, though! I do too many throws already (which get punished!), so yeah I'll get to purging that habit soon enough. I'll get on that 3c one of these days. Rest of the match I wasn't really focusing Btw I won't say the same thing twice so that's probably why I didn't say anything for the second half... btw why don't I see you in the chat? We should play a few matches~ I need a hakumen to looop with carl :3 IRC >>> Chat. I don't have a keyboard I can connect, so typing stuff manually is too much work. I'll be on sometime tonight, and tomorrow too. Hit me up whenever. I wish I was given advice for fighting him...lol Haha, you're pretty good yourself. I was struggling there a lot at a few points... Ragna's hard to deal with because he's always in close range and mixes up a lot in his block strings (not as much as other characters, though). As Miso says, don't do the follow-up to Hell's Fang, but I think you got wise to that. Air dashing against any good Haku will get you killed because of his 6a and other AA abilities. Be careful when doing block strings too. I can't IB/counter well, but a Haku who can will destroy you for it. Another thing is that if you successfully pressure a Haku, he's going to be sitting on tons of meter. You'll notice there were a lot of instances where I came back and cut away at your hp just because I had the meter for it. What you can do is try to make the Haku waste it, or play more carefully. Being overly aggressive on a conservative player is nearly a death sentence at that point. Alright... I guess that's everything. Thanks for the feedback, everyone! Greatly appreciate it. Having an opportunity to get better is always a good thing.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 I wish I was given advice for fighting him...lol Your too passive, you could add more to your block string pressure. They fact that sophis was getting in random grabs means you don't add enough pressure. Ragna's 2d should seldomly be used, if I was to play you with a gold connection you'd eat counters till you got sick hakumen's 2d easily catches that even without IB. I play a lot of ragna's online and offline (online with gold connection relax) so I know what a skilled ragna's block strings and pressures are. YOU should be the one going in for for green grabs. None of that air dashing and barrier blocking either iad (imo) or super double jump to bait haku's AA's and punish him when he whiffs them. And don't throw out random carnage scissors, against me you would've either eaten yukikaze or 5d>shippu. Yea ragna is made to rush shit down, so... RTSD!!!! That's just my thoughts as an average player, you plays A LOT of ragna's on/offline >_> But this isn't a ragna forum this is only for THE CRUSADE OF THE WHITE VOID *we all proceed to say hakumen's story mode speech like as if it is an oath of allegiance*
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 @Sophis Yea pressing back while throwing them into corners allows shippu to land, and even doing a 5/neutral throw into corners allows for shippu to land is what I meant. If you still don't understand I'll show you online hopefully at some point. But you can't really work on IB'ing if you play with anything less than gold connection. Yea overly RTSD players are best to counter imo, because they give you so much opportunities in their block strings. But don't RELY on zanshin, just learn to encorperate it more, there is more things in combat than just fighting one must watch the flow of battle and the attacks they use as well as when they use them. Pay attention to patterns and by so doing you can turn the tide of battle with but one counter:china:
Sophisticat Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Oh, you meant 4/5 as throw direction. I thought you meant number of variations... silly me. But yeah, I've seen it done. In the corner I prefer doing loop since it's meterless for relatively equal damage, so it's a better trade-off in my opinion. Shippu is good to kill them, though. Counters... just going to have to practice. I'm actually more wary of counters vs. RTSD because I can also easily get hit out of it. And Blade isn't an RTSD player? That was some wicked stuff there.
BladeOfJustice7 Posted December 21, 2009 Posted December 21, 2009 Not RTSD by my standards Play my friend saido shiro you'll learn the meaning of RTSD:eng101:
Irikarul Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 I don't know if this is the right place to post this question, but I might as well try. Anyway, I just played Hakumen's arcade mode yesterday and was fighting Ragna. I activate Shippu, while Ragna's about half a screen away to the left. A second after I start the distortion, he activates Carnage Scissors. By the time both of our distortions are finished, Ragna is on the other side of Hakumen, standing back to back with him, while neither of us took damage of any kind. Can someone tell me what exactly happened?
farranpoison Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 I don't know if this is the right place to post this question, but I might as well try. Anyway, I just played Hakumen's arcade mode yesterday and was fighting Ragna. I activate Shippu, while Ragna's about half a screen away to the left. A second after I start the distortion, he activates Carnage Scissors. By the time both of our distortions are finished, Ragna is on the other side of Hakumen, standing back to back with him, while neither of us took damage of any kind. Can someone tell me what exactly happened? Invincibility frames?
Irikarul Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Probably, but I always thought that Carnage Scissors didn't have very many invincibility frames, and for it to go straight through to the other side of a shippu-using Hakumen without either fighter taking damage just seemed strange to me. I mean, normally, wouldn't Carnage Scissors either attack Haku straight on or get punished by shippu?
A.X.I.S. Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 Probably, but I always thought that Carnage Scissors didn't have very many invincibility frames, and for it to go straight through to the other side of a shippu-using Hakumen without either fighter taking damage just seemed strange to me. I mean, normally, wouldn't Carnage Scissors either attack Haku straight on or get punished by shippu? haku seems to have invul when he's positioning his sword. possible just unlikely.
Irikarul Posted February 23, 2010 Posted February 23, 2010 That's probably the case, but I thought it was worth mentioning due to just how weird it was to me. I've barely even used Hakumen, tbh, but he can be pretty entertaining to play as, especially when I found out I could counter Bang during a daifunka. I might make him my sub, actually. Who knows?
Izanagi SOL777 Posted March 24, 2010 Posted March 24, 2010 So.. to make sure, you only use 6B against low pressure attacks like 2A? and 6A for anti-air attacks?
Sophisticat Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Not RTSD by my standards Play my friend saido shiro you'll learn the meaning of RTSD:eng101: I have learned. So.. to make sure, you only use 6B against low pressure attacks like 2A? and 6A for anti-air attacks? You use 6b to beat out lows because of its foot attribute invulnerability frames. 6a is great anti-air, yes. But you have to time it right, and be aware it has some fair recovery, so it's easy to be punished for whiffing.
MisoSowee Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 are there any really good opportunities to use 6b? Sometimes I'll randomly throw it out and it'll stuff a good amount of moves, but it's hard to isolate where and when and etc. 6b's probably the last "pretty useful" moves i need to learn how to get.
Re4L14124c Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 on the matter of 6B, can you chain 6B into gurren? and anyone saw Chen/suzume's combo in that Tachikawa ranbat? How exactly do that? *starter*> kishuuenma> j2c> 2c> S.jc> 662a x3? edit: should I move this into combo thread? just a quick yes or no question here, so I wasn't sure.
MisoSowee Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 on CH definitely but i'm not too sure on non-CH. Most likely yes, since you can do it on otg 5c.
FullAutoDeath Posted March 25, 2010 Posted March 25, 2010 Yes you can cancel it into Guren. You want to let the stick/pad return to neutral before inputting though, or else a Kishuu will come out. As for when to use it, there's always the 6A->6B gatling. You can also frame trap and use it as a threatening low. Get them used to blocking low and then use TK/Hop Tsubaki, for example. Really depends on your opponent and their tendencies.
Sophisticat Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 @Psycofang: Analysis! We only had three matches, but that's plenty. Here goes. First, the good stuff. - Good poking game. You go SF-style, so this should be your strong point. - Good punishing. If you land a hit, you go for the combo. I haven't seen you miss a follow-up. - Good up-close traps. In general, your Haku is a solid close-range fighter. You're hard to punish when committing to a poking game and the opponent can make the mistaking of thinking he can retaliate, but you hit him out of it. However, your Haku remains unpolished in other areas. Namely: - Upgrade your combos. The one thing you'll notice about mine was that I always go for the most damage out of the least amount of stars. Zantetsu hits hard, but it does cost 3 stars when you could use a combo that nets you more bang for your buck. Also, Hotaru is bad as anything other than a starter in combos. Sticking it at the end of a combo is a waste of stars by then. Another thing, using multiple guren in a row is bad for herding. If you need to push the guy into the corner, do something like guren -> kishuu -> 2c -> j.2c -> AD j.2c instead. I use falling.C combo after a guren, as you'll recall. That's the way I do it. - Use of Hotaru. It's a great move, but you have to know when to use it. TK when the other guy is on top of you, or hop Hotaru to bait his attack and punish. Use more as a reversal/punish tool than an offensive one. - You don't necessarily have to commit to an attack when getting in. The reason I hit you with 6a so much was because you didn't cancel with j.D or bait it with something else. 6a is great anti-air, but it has a lot of recovery. Punish me for being reactionary. In short, you need better combos, and be aware that while your strong point is your close game, it can get predictable and I'll hurt you for it. A close game isn't just an offense; it's also about baiting the other's retaliation and punishing him for it. Good shit, though. You're strong already, you just need polishing. Refine your Haku and you'll be keeping your opponent on his toes at all times.
MisoSowee Posted April 1, 2010 Posted April 1, 2010 Hotaru can be a good follow-up from j.C if your momentum doesn't allow a 5c tho :D
Izanagi SOL777 Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 When do I use Hakumen's throws? I never been to use one lately in a match , but I think I'm missing some opening where I can use them. Another thing, is anybody using joystick? I'm kinda annoyed that I can launch kisshu on psp, yet I can't even do it on PS3 controllers( both analog and directional buttons). Well, If I can't do it on analog then I guess it doesn't make much of a difference on Joystick.. edit: alright this getting rediculous, I do 236A during a middle of a combo and I get kisshu instead, when I want kisshu I get gurren instead, this was a never a problem either that or I'm just bad with Hakumen
Sophisticat Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 ^ That's all about getting used to stick. Personally, it's not for me, so I'm sticking to pad for life! For throws, you can do tick throws to punish mashers. Otherwise, I do it when the dude is close and I anticipate him using something other than a poke or a DP.
Lou_Cypher Posted April 2, 2010 Posted April 2, 2010 Throws are awesome when you let your opponent get used to the falling j.C loop. Most of the time, they're going to mash a button in hopes they can tech out in anticipation of your mistake. You get to cover that up and grab them in mid-air and deal massive damage in return since they were pressing the wrong buttons. Mix it up though. They get used to it after a while.
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