[CPEX] Celica A. Mercury Gameplay Discussion Thread

[UnsafeUnblockables]

For both of them don't go for 236B during neutral Hakumen can just cut it and Azrael will absorb it

5C is like the best option to do in the corner when AZ is waking up so he can't roll or backdash

Charged 214B/C I believe can bait out Hakumen counters I have to test this to make sure

Celica doesn't get caught by Hakumen 236236D so if she sets it off she can either jump and airdash over it or 236C through it

All I know so far

EDIT: I tested the Hakumen counters 214B beats mashed out counters but 214C can't and they can both be beaten by j.D

[Dawn of Musou]

I feel like the Az matchup isn't as bad as it could be. I play this MU kinda frequently but not as much as I should, so this writeup will be based off some of that experience. I also sub an okay Az along with my Celica, so I think I understand both of their tools pretty well. If you think something's incorrect, feel free to call me out on it. Don't wanna give bad info lol.

 

Neutral:

 

Celica's normals, mainly her 5B and j.C are fast and have a lot of range. In neutral, I feel like we have the advantage because of those two. In terms of range, Azrael doesn't really have much to match us except his 5C, which is slower than the average poke. On the ground, space him out with 5B and approach carefully. Watch out for Gustaf as it covers a lot of range, is +1 on block and leads to a decent combo on CH. It's unsafe when IB'd but Azrael will most likely backdash if that happens. Be careful in the air because Az can easily hit you out with a lot of his stuff. His 6B, 2C, 5A and 5B can stuff us out of bad jump-ins/airdashes and convert into a weakpoint and pressure (Although his 6B needs to be a CH to followup). If Azrael's in the air, our 6B can take care of him and go into an easy combo for corner carry/damage. There isn't a lot of risk with throwing our 6B out since it doesn't have too much recovery and startup is pretty fast. Overall, I think we have to be patient in neutral. A lot of Azrael's stuff has noticeable recovery, so try to bait him out, especially his 2C and 6B. Punishing a whiffed 2C leads to at least 3.5K since it's a crouching confirm into 214C loops, which work on Az just fine. You can also go into charged 214B if you're too far for 214[C]. Celica's j.D can also beat anti air attempts when done from high enough, so use it sparingly. It can convert into a full combo easily.

 

I'd say neutral is in Celica's favor overall. We have the advantage because of faster long range normals but you have to be careful because Azrael can punish reckless behavior and convert pretty easily. You can use 236B if you see him do a low iAD from far away. Otherwise, try not to use it since that's an easy Growler absorb.

 

Offense:

 

Our main purpose should be to get Azrael into the corner. In midscreen, his backdash beats a lot of our stuff on wakeup. If you read it, keep dashing on his wakeup and hit him with 5A or 5B. You can also use 214B or 214C although you might have to charge them a bit? If you wanna go for a hard read, 662D should punish backdash and backwards roll, then go into a D normal of your choice for combo. Punish rolls with 2A or 2B. Celica's pressure and mixup isn't good so you're gonna have to get creative. Mix up tick throws, jump cancels into empty jump stuff. Use 6A if you have 50 meter for a strong 50/50. Occasionally use 214B. Try to frame trap with 2C>2A (the opponent can IB 2C to make this unsafe so be careful). And do not forget Crush Trigger is a thing. You get at least 3K if you guard break Azrael with 6C>214[C]>loops, and if your opponent barriers, Celica is still +4 on block so you can go for pressure afterwards. Use it but don't abuse since Az can just backdash or 5A you out of it if he sees it. Once you get Azrael in the corner, Celica becomes more threatening. Like Unsafe said, 5C on his wakeup beats both rolls and backdash. Celica has no pushback on her B and C normals so you can stay on him with 5B, 6B, 2B and 2C. You can occasionally use 6C as it's only -3, will catch jump-out attempts and can punish a lot of mash attempts with 214C followup. You can follow up 6A meterless, although it is still unsafe if blocked, better to use when you have meter to RC. Overall it's easier for Celica to keep up pressure in the corner, so try to keep Azrael there as much as you can. His defensive options are backdash and Scud Punishment. You can punish backdash with 5C and Scud can be easily baited and punished with 2C fatal for almost 6K. You can also charge 236C so Scud will whiff through it and you get a full CH combo for about 3K.

 

Overall, Celica's offense is a bit weak midscreen but gets stronger in the corner. I'd say prioritize corner carry over damage when doing midscreen combos. Then try to open him up and deal a lot of damage. If there's one thing Celica's good at, it's damage.

 

 

Defense:

 

Our backdash is also pretty strong and can bring the round back to neutral when you notice gaps in Azrael's pressure. However, iirc Az can use 3D and 6D to punish our backdash. and get a free weakpoint or a strong combo if he already has that weakpoint. Players tend to forget or just not know that Celica's 6D has 1F foot invul so if you catch Azrael doing something like 2D on Celica's wakeup, you can use 6D and get a full combo using 6D>5D2>2D3>2A>stuff. Other than that, there's not much Celica can do but block and wait for an opportunity to get out of pressure. You're gonna have to be very patient as Azrael's pressure is amazingly good and pretty scary. Watch out for 5D, 6D (overheads), 2D and 3D (lows). Don't try to mash out of 5A>2A or 2A>5A as that has no gap. And that's just the normal stuff. Az has very tricky mixup like dash-through cross-up j.B, cross-up Growler, cross-up Gustaf, cross-up TCL and other stuff that's pretty hard to react to. Our 236C only has full invul when charged, so while you can use it to punish big gaps, don't try to use it as a DP or anything. if you got 50 meter, both 632146C (dash cinematic super) and 632146B (laser super) can be used as strong reversals with no risk when blocked. I'm not sure if Azrael has a way to punish a whiffed 632146C other than full screen BHS super or maybe Gustaf? He can also just use Growler on 632146B and possibly punish its recovery with instant Phalanx projectile followup. But either way, he has potential ways to punish both of these supers when whiffed so don't use them carelessly.

 

Overall, it's best to block his pressure, be patient and wait for noticeable gaps to either punish or get out and go back to neutral.

 

 

 

So in total, I'd say it's about even. Celica's tools help in neutral but are otherwise kinda weak vs Azrael. Her pressure isn't anything to write home about while Azrael's is pretty strong. Once you get in, gotta make sure you stay in. Be extremely patient, convert hits when you can, focus on corner carry, make sure to have unique pressure and you can win this matchup without too much of a struggle. It'd be a 5-5 or a 4.5-5.5 for Celica vs Azrael.

 

 

As for Haku, I know almost nothing about this MU tbh but I think it should be played in a similar way. You gotta be more careful at neutral because unlike Azrael, Haku has j.C and 4C, both of which are really long and fast tools that beat Celica pretty easily at neutral. Watch out for D counters during gaps in your pressure, try to bait them out when you can. Be more careful in your pressure, don't go for risky things. It helps that Yukikaze doesn't catch Celica's 5B. Otherwise, I'm not exactly sure how to approach Celica vs Hakumen. If any Haku wants to do a set sometime, that'd be cool. Maybe someone else with more experience can do a writeup?

 

On a random note, I would have written this sooner but EVO hype too strong lol.

[mAc Chaos]

I'll play you, Dawn. I need Celica exp too.

[Dawn of Musou]

Sure, that'd be cool. When are you available?

[BlackYakuzu94]

You can fight me too.

[Dawn of Musou]

Alright. You already got me on PSN so I'll prolly ask for a match next time we're both on.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So like...what's your opinion of Celica anyway? Forums have gone pretty silent about her ever since 2.0 dropped.

[Dawn of Musou]

She has potential. While I think she's on the very low side of the tier list, it's not like she's impossible to win with. 5B and j.C are pretty damn amazing for neutral and just about everything, 2B and 2C are hella strong for pressure, 6B is a really reaaallly good anti-air, 6A>RC>mixup is a solid 50/50 and her best mixup, charged 236C is pro for baiting, OD healing has won me the round a couple of times or at least let me fight on longer before losing, and her damage output is like one of the best in the game. Still though, I won't deny the struggle. Poor meterless mixup, bad reversal, lacking pressure due to literally everything being minus on block except 2C and Crush Trigger, not really a threat until she's got you in the corner. Tbh, she's basically a much weaker Jin overall. Everything Celica does, Jin does better (except damage and anti-air'ing lol). But still, she's really fun to play and I think people can enjoy themselves if they take the time to try her out. She also has the low tier option select ehue.

 

Edit: As for why the Celica forums are dead, there aren't really a lot of Celica players in general, either on netplay, offline or in Japan. I guess most people just find it not worth the effort lmao.

[Raidhyn]

Well I'm happy to post here so it's not dead! I picked up Celica a couple weeks ago when I grabbed CPEX and I can not put her down. She's really fun despite a few shortcomings. Just finding out that I can combo from 5C into Astral is enough to make my day. Not to mention that once you get some of her counter hit combos down she can deal really good damage just about anywhere on the screen. If anyone ever wants to play just let me know. 

[UnsafeUnblockables]

I do want to post a lot more in here but atm moment i barely get the time to lab and post anything worth sharing

[Surf]

snip.

I agree with most of this. Except that she's on the very low side of the tier list. IMO its hard to place her. She's not high. But she actually doesn't have alot of bad matchups with much of the cast. So she can't be a low tier character either. Kind of like Amane where he's not "strong" but he's still a thorn in about 70% of the casts ass. But she's better than Amane so hmm

Anyways. The thing about Celica is once you put them in the corner usually the match will end. This is pretty much universal for the entire cast. For the most part anyway. Still don't think I've done every matchup with her.

The special thing about Celica that not even many Celica players even realize about her is her negation to push back on her B and C normals. Even with barrier, Celica doesn't move any inch of where she is. Most likely because while Minerva and Celica share hurtboxes, Minerva is still considered independent from Celica. This is evidenced by the fact Celica can cancel herself even despite activating Jin and Hakus Yukikaze. If As are done though she's stuck and was the damage. Due to the Minerva not taking part in those normals. This IMO is her true drive and without it, THEN I would agree yea the characters shit.

In short she can establish and maintain katame better than any other character in the game since she doesn't have to deal with one of the main villains to pressure. Which is barrier, or just plain push back. Whether this was an intentional mechanic or not, she's able to do it and shuts down most of the character in the corner because of it. Pray she still doesn't suffer pushback in CF

If I had any problem with the character it would be mostly midscreen. She has little to no midscreen oki and she isn't relatively good at chasing or punishing techs. Most stray combos lead into average to below average damage. So your hitting them, not getting much damage and not getting the best oki situation to establish more damage or pressure. The best thing to do really is to push then into the corner, where the character truly shines. 5 f DP is bad but its better than nothing. It has many other useful applications like making other dps whiff as oki due to her invul on the charge version. Calling 6B da gawd would be an understatement. IMO it would be the best anti air in the game if she received a solid amount of damage from it each confirm instead of just CH (where she gets 4.3k meterless). 10k health is also the pits. But that'll be rectified come CF somewhat. Ds are also usless but they give her the perfect spacing in the corner to start her spaced pressure so I'll let that slide.

In any case these are just my opinions. She's a very very solid character. If given a couple more tools (CF incoming) she could become a real nightmare. If anything, playing her is almost purely all fundamentals. I've played Izayoi since 1.0 and I do better with Celica than I do with lolSSSS tier 2.0 Izayoi. So go figure. Alot of people don't play her because its either 1. They don't know about her barrier negation or 2. Their fundamentals are not strong enough to actually carry the character. Instead of the character carrying them.

[BlackYakuzu94]

So she's like Ragna & Jin in a way that she relies primarily on fundamentals, but doesn't have as many good tools as they do or the consistent damage output?

[Surf]

That's the short version of it, yes. I mean it isn't the number of tools that make the difference. It's the quality of said tools. Hers are pretty much meh all around. But the good tools she DOES have are pretty damn good. They just don't compensate for her other failing areas well enough

[TD]

Why is 6b so good? Not damage wise? More like in neutral and pressure situations.

[Surf]

Neutral.

- Very early head invul. Might be f 4-5. Think I read it somewhere but I forget now

- Very vertical hitbox

- Scoops the opponent downwards so 6B > 5C is a buttery smooth confirm literally every single time. Pretty much impossible to mess up the anti air attempt

- Also makes some air CH confirms laughably easy

- Leads to 4.3k on CH

They can be at the top of 6B and still be slammed downwards and combo'd normally as if the opponent were low to the ground

[TD]

Mmm. She can thank kokonoe for that head invul. Or maybe, good anti airs must run in the family.

[Dawn of Musou]

 

I agree with most of this. Except that she's on the very low side of the tier list. IMO its hard to place her. She's not high. But she actually doesn't have alot of bad matchups with much of the cast. So she can't be a low tier character either. Kind of like Amane where he's not "strong" but he's still a thorn in about 70% of the casts ass. But she's better than Amane so hmm

 

Valid reasoning. I was thinking about this as I was writing that Azrael MU writeup lol. At first I thought it'd be a lot worse but it actually worked out just fine. I'd imagine it'd be kinda similar for most of the cast as well.

 

 

 

Anyways. The thing about Celica is once you put them in the corner usually the match will end. This is pretty much universal for the entire cast. For the most part anyway. Still don't think I've done every matchup with her.

The special thing about Celica that not even many Celica players even realize about her is her negation to push back on her B and C normals. Even with barrier, Celica doesn't move any inch of where she is. Most likely because while Minerva and Celica share hurtboxes, Minerva is still considered independent from Celica. This is evidenced by the fact Celica can cancel herself even despite activating Jin and Hakus Yukikaze. If As are done though she's stuck and was the damage. Due to the Minerva not taking part in those normals. This IMO is her true drive and without it, THEN I would agree yea the characters shit.

In short she can establish and maintain katame better than any other character in the game since she doesn't have to deal with one of the main villains to pressure. Which is barrier, or just plain push back. Whether this was an intentional mechanic or not, she's able to do it and shuts down most of the character in the corner because of it. Pray she still doesn't suffer pushback in CF

If I had any problem with the character it would be mostly midscreen. She has little to no midscreen oki and she isn't relatively good at chasing or punishing techs. Most stray combos lead into average to below average damage. So your hitting them, not getting much damage and not getting the best oki situation to establish more damage or pressure. The best thing to do really is to push then into the corner, where the character truly shines. 5 f DP is bad but its better than nothing. It has many other useful applications like making other dps whiff as oki due to her invul on the charge version. Calling 6B da gawd would be an understatement. IMO it would be the best anti air in the game if she received a solid amount of damage from it each confirm instead of just CH (where she gets 4.3k meterless). 10k health is also the pits. But that'll be rectified come CF somewhat. Ds are also usless but they give her the perfect spacing in the corner to start her spaced pressure so I'll let that slide.

In any case these are just my opinions. She's a very very solid character. If given a couple more tools (CF incoming) she could become a real nightmare. If anything, playing her is almost purely all fundamentals. I've played Izayoi since 1.0 and I do better with Celica than I do with lolSSSS tier 2.0 Izayoi. So go figure. Alot of people don't play her because its either 1. They don't know about her barrier negation or 2. Their fundamentals are not strong enough to actually carry the character. Instead of the character carrying them.

 

 

That right there is why I prioritize corner carry while midscreen. She's pretty lackluster midscreen and can't really do much unless it's a CH punish.  Lack of pushback in corner though makes for some really really solid and scary pressure. This also makes her Crush Trigger a lot more viable. If she had pushback, her CT would basically be useless considering how short her CT range is. This is especially why I'm hype for 2C pull-in in CF.

 

 

But what's your 6B CH combo? I haven't really experimented with it much lol.

[Surf]

Aa much as it pains me for her CT to have such booty range, she would be even more absurd in the corner if it had the average range. 2C pull in is mostly for extending pressure midscreen I think. Doing it in the corner consistently can mess up your spacing most likely. 2C pull in WOULD help with getting a spaced CT in though. So we'll see

Combo is:

CH 6B > 214[C] > microdash 5C > 214C > (dash) 6C > 214[C] > 6B > 5C > 6D~5D~6D

I haven't tried it on every member of the cast so it actually may not work on everyone. But the route is usually consistent so I felt like I didn't need to. If there's any char spec points it would be the initial 214[C] or the microdash 5C > 214C

[UnsafeUnblockables]

Combo is:

CH 6B > 214[C] > microdash 5C > 214C > (dash) 6C > 214[C] > 6B > 5C > 6D~5D~6D

That combo just sounds inconsistent, but you can make it a lot more consistent by adding 2B>2C before the first 214C you might lose some damage though since you won't be able to do the charged version

[mAc Chaos]

Finally some Celica talk. Good... good.

Never heard "katame" referenced in FGs though. Surf, elaborate pls.

[Surf]

 

That combo just sounds inconsistent, but you can make it a lot more consistent by adding 2B>2C before the first 214C you might lose some damage though since you won't be able to do the charged version

 

 

As I said. I haven't tested it on everyone. "Sounds" and is actually inconsistent are two different things. If anything it seems some people find microdashes hard. You also have to time the 5C so the opponent hits the thrusters hitbox and not the actual rocket for the fire effect. I don't drop the combo or find it particularity difficult. But might as well just test it now to clear the air anyway.

Not doing the charged version would drop the damage considerably btw

 

 

Finally some Celica talk. Good... good.

Never heard "katame" referenced in FGs though. Surf, elaborate pls.

 

Ah sorry, probably should've explained it. It's actually something I learned from a Guilty Gear and on this site. Instead of writting it up myself this post should suffice. Its always the best feeling implementing something from a game/character to another game/character

[mAc Chaos]

Ah, what an informative read. I've basically been doing that all along with pressure and footsies, I just didn't know it had a term aside from "good footsies." Putting yourself at your optimal range.

[Surf]

Forcing your opponent to make mistake in an attempt to escape as well as grinding them into submission if they choose to do nothing are also key points. You always want them worse off than they were before. 

 

Celica doesn't have to worry about faultless/barrier so shes free to continue repeated katame strings until the opponent decides they want to try to get out. Only to be combo'd and put into the same situation but with less health and Celica with more meter which means for options (214B overhead > RC for example). 

 

Tested the CH 6B on everyone and it doesn't work on Tao and Arakune, If the CH 6B hits too low you wont get the special thrusters effect on 214[C]

 

Acts too finicky on Mu, Relius, and with Bang you lose a rep of 214C. In the case of these characters substitute the 214 after 6C. You lose about 400 damage but 3.9k is still solid. 

 

In the corner the combo is CH 6B > 214[C] > 6C > 214[C] > 5C > 214C > (5C > 214C) > dash 6B > 5C > 5D~5D/6D~6D.

 

Ranges from 3.6-3.9k depending on if you got the (5C > 214C) on. Which some characters like Tager allow you to do. If you get the extra rep go straight into drive and omit the 5C after dash 6B. Doesn't work on Tao/Arakune again. Just do CH 6B > 214 confirms for her. Or in general if you feel the 214[C] route is too finicky

[Raidhyn]

Hey Surf, thanks for all the information, was really great to read. Slight note: Watching you play Celica at CEO was part of why I decided to pick her up. Too swaggy. 

I'm curious to know though, what do you all use for your pressure string in the corner? I've been doing 5B > 5C > 3C > 5D, 6D, 6D back into a 5B to try to bait 2A/2B punishes and it works out against some of the cast but I'm sure there's better pressure options. Any suggestions would be very appreciated as info on pressure strings usually isn't kicking around. 

[mAc Chaos]

Surf was at CEO with Celica? Are there any videos?