[Xrd] Leo Whitefang General Discussion

[C4IQ]

A basic breakdown vid for using and fighting against leo.
Sorry it's abit long when gg Rev is released I'll do a more in depth one and mu specific vids.

https://youtu.be/96elu04BC2E

[Tsukahara]

So out of curiosity, do we have anywhere we are using to put up vid's for critique?

 

Thought I might throw up some local tournament footage from a few weeks back asking for some. If not I guess I'll  make a critique thread?

[Kikuichimonji]

So out of curiosity, do we have anywhere we are using to put up vid's for critique?

 

Thought I might throw up some local tournament footage from a few weeks back asking for some. If not I guess I'll  make a critique thread?

I'd make a new thread

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[Skeith91]

Any tips on Leo's oki options?

[Kikuichimonji]

Any tips on Leo's oki options?

3rd rekka (on hit) gives you 3 good options. You can either go for running safe jump j.k/j.H, whiff 236H > backturned (bt.K low, Bt.H overhead, dash though bt.K crossup low, etc), or H fireball oki. If you do a running H fireball, they can't jump out and you can do some really cheap stuff with YRC.

[Skeith91]

thanks. I practiced the options you listed and did some experiments with H fireball YRC (with and without dash)
H fireball YRC:

dash in 5H into stance mix ups. you gotta dash in 5H as soon as you finish YRCing to stop them from jumping away. this will also make the fireball hit AFTER your 5H which will give you more time to dash in and mix up with your stance.

dashing H fireball YRC:

the first hit of the H fireball will be the one preventing them from jumping away. you can do 5H/6H into stance mix ups (you'll have less time after the stance transition since you'll hit them after the fireball) or jump airdash/low mix ups

 

I'm sure there are more options from fireball YRC, i haven't tried everything. I'll test 236H and see if it is useful in this situation

[SorAnoTenshi]

Hey guys, I heard there's a way to option select leo's flash kick with FD (involves proximity guard).

I've been grinding this in training mode for a while and it hasn't come to me yet, are you still able to do this?

[Kikuichimonji]

Hey guys, I heard there's a way to option select leo's flash kick with FD (involves proximity guard).

I've been grinding this in training mode for a while and it hasn't come to me yet, are you still able to do this?

Yes. It's removed in Revelator, though. There's one for Leo explaining the input somewhere. Basically you input Eisen Sturm with [2]7 H + button, and you get FD unless they attacked.

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[Dime_x]

Just picking up xrd again because people seem to be excited for fighting games again for a bit while sf5 is looking to come out. Had troubles yesterday since I'm basically damn near picking up Leo from scratch again.

had some observations that I wanted to ask about.

 

firstly I got pwned hardcore by slayer dash shenanigans... Then once I got used to that and started to own it, then the slayer switched it up and started to just own me with slayer buttons. I couldn't really break out of his poke strings, it seemed very varied, but to go on forever. Had a mixture of 5Sxn and bla bla slayer stuff. Tried to fd out and to dp out but they were only weakly effective.

then played against a chipp elf Faust and axl... Sigh.

 

 

one of the primary things I noticed was once my opponents had a feel for my Leo, they could kinda just block me out and interrupt me if I went for anything after my Fra,e disadvantaged moves. This left my offense pretty weak. I WAS getting a lot of counter hits but I was getting them less than what would be conducive to a sustainable game.

 

 

so I came up with a blockstring that while lower damage, seems to perhaps be what Leo should be going for rather than 5K>c.S>5HS

 

i thought that going 5K>c.S>f.S might be overall better in terms of a bnb blockstring/confirm since the f.S can be canceled into so many things and also has has stagger into 5H.

 

on hit the latter string does less damage against standing opponents since you have to go into a sweep but against crouches you get a lot more.

 

i like this string so much because the f.S has so many cancel options:

5H

6H

any special

jump

2S

6K

 

so what do you think... Does it have merit?

[Kikuichimonji]

Just picking up xrd again because people seem to be excited for fighting games again for a bit while sf5 is looking to come out. Had troubles yesterday since I'm basically damn near picking up Leo from scratch again.

had some observations that I wanted to ask about.

 

firstly I got pwned hardcore by slayer dash shenanigans... Then once I got used to that and started to own it, then the slayer switched it up and started to just own me with slayer buttons. I couldn't really break out of his poke strings, it seemed very varied, but to go on forever. Had a mixture of 5Sxn and bla bla slayer stuff. Tried to fd out and to dp out but they were only weakly effective.

then played against a chipp elf Faust and axl... Sigh.

 

 

one of the primary things I noticed was once my opponents had a feel for my Leo, they could kinda just block me out and interrupt me if I went for anything after my Fra,e disadvantaged moves. This left my offense pretty weak. I WAS getting a lot of counter hits but I was getting them less than what would be conducive to a sustainable game.

 

 

so I came up with a blockstring that while lower damage, seems to perhaps be what Leo should be going for rather than 5K>c.S>5HS

 

i thought that going 5K>c.S>f.S might be overall better in terms of a bnb blockstring/confirm since the f.S can be canceled into so many things and also has has stagger into 5H.

 

on hit the latter string does less damage against standing opponents since you have to go into a sweep but against crouches you get a lot more.

 

i like this string so much because the f.S has so many cancel options:

5H

6H

any special

jump

2S

6K

 

so what do you think... Does it have merit?

In general it's better to choose options from cl.S instead off f.S. You can't reliably 6K after f.S. You can hit confirm at the cl.S.

You want to avoid autopilot strings involving 5H because of the risks that move requires on block but you can just substitute 6K usually. If they want to IB 2P, 1st rekka > 2P is a combo on CH, so cancel 6K to rekka and combo off the CH.

The trick to not getting interrupted with Leo is EXTREME string variability. If they want to IB mash buttons, just stop at 5K, cl.S, or 2S and it's trivial to stop the opponent's interrupt with f.S, 5K, or dashing 5/2P

Against Slayer, just IB and throw if you see him disappear and you'll limit him a ton.

[Dime_x]

The problem I'm having with Leo variance is range and my opponents counter hitting me out of my offense. Like.. What can be done after c.S? You can Gatling to 2S but there is no delay, you can Gatling to 5H but once again no delay, like everything has no delay and so it's easy for the opponent to see the stop and just avoid from what I've seen.

 

there is no delay or variance and the only blocking threat is cancelling into 236 H (which kinda sucks)

 

ive tried things like 5K,5k etc and I just get jabbed out easily... What's the counter for that from 5K? There is no delayed Gatling to CH my opponents from 5K that I know of. I can blitz shield...

 

LOL I guess I'm making it out worse than it is or something. When I get in on some of my opponents they can't get me off of them at all. But the others just basically block and laugh, or have good timing and don't allow me to get away with dumb frametraps consistently. And the "smart" frametraps don't work...

[Kikuichimonji]

The problem I'm having with Leo variance is range and my opponents counter hitting me out of my offense. Like.. What can be done after c.S? You can Gatling to 2S but there is no delay, you can Gatling to 5H but once again no delay, like everything has no delay and so it's easy for the opponent to see the stop and just avoid from what I've seen.

 

there is no delay or variance and the only blocking threat is cancelling into 236 H (which kinda sucks)

 

ive tried things like 5K,5k etc and I just get jabbed out easily... What's the counter for that from 5K? There is no delayed Gatling to CH my opponents from 5K that I know of. I can blitz shield...

 

LOL I guess I'm making it out worse than it is or something. When I get in on some of my opponents they can't get me off of them at all. But the others just basically block and laugh, or have good timing and don't allow me to get away with dumb frametraps consistently. And the "smart" frametraps don't work...

Cl.S > 5P, cl.S > jc j.k, cl.S > f.S (not chained) if you're outside of the opponent's 2P range, cl.S 2S(whiff or block) > f.S, 5K >2P

All of these beat 2P mash for significant reward. Remember to confirm into a crouching specific combo.

Leo's 5K has low invincibility during its first few active frames, but it's slower than his jab so you can't rely on it to beat the opponent's 2P.

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[Dime_x]

Alright I'll work on those and try em out

 

thanks

[Talerel]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but how do I go out of brynhildr stance after I counter an attack? Comboing off a counter is difficult when I don't know whether or not I'm going to stay in stance or not.

[Kikuichimonji]

Sorry if this has been answered already, but how do I go out of brynhildr stance after I counter an attack? Comboing off a counter is difficult when I don't know whether or not I'm going to stay in stance or not.

You combo from the bt.D into a knockdown. You can do counter > dash bt.S Bt.H on everyone, but that's hardly optimal.

You can hit 22 to cancel Brynhildr but it has some recovery to out so be careful.

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[Talerel]

25 minutes ago, Kikuichimonji said:

You combo from the bt.D into a knockdown. You can do counter > dash bt.S Bt.H on everyone, but that's hardly optimal.

You can hit 22 to cancel Brynhildr but it has some recovery to out so be careful.

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I see but I've noticed sometimes that after a counter Leo will not remain in Brynhildr, (I dont do the 22 cancel) and this allows me to airjuggle and combo into Siegesparade for more mixup shaninigans and I'm trying to see if there's a way for that to always happen or is it just a random thing?

[Dime_x]

Does Leo have any better than average, throw setups? Like you know, something better than 2p>throw or better than like 6H yrc>throw

 

what I'm basically looking for is good setups for a dash throw from a blockstring... The best thing I can think of is wiffed 2S>dash break throw.

 

 

anything better that doesn't take RC?

[Kikuichimonji]

On 12/23/2015 at 10:36 PM, Talerel said:

I see but I've noticed sometimes that after a counter Leo will not remain in Brynhildr, (I dont do the 22 cancel) and this allows me to airjuggle and combo into Siegesparade for more mixup shaninigans and I'm trying to see if there's a way for that to always happen or is it just a random thing?

I've never heard of Leo not being backturned after successful bt.D. 

[Kikuichimonji]

On 12/30/2015 at 3:52 PM, Dime_x said:

Does Leo have any better than average, throw setups? Like you know, something better than 2p>throw or better than like 6H yrc>throw

 

what I'm basically looking for is good setups for a dash throw from a blockstring... The best thing I can think of is wiffed 2S>dash break throw.

 

 

anything better that doesn't take RC?

Anything frame advantaged > dash up throw is honestly pretty legitimate depending on spacing. Tick throws in GG in general aren't hard 50/50 tools because they can be mashed on/counter-thrown, so you don't want to rely on them as part of a 50/50 because the reward just doesn't match up to the risk. Generally, if I throw someone, it's because I think the throw is "free" and they're spending a lot of effort on dealing with the rest of my offense, so I want to rattle them.

 

Even something like empty jump on a safe jump > throw is moderately useful as Leo because of low air dash j.P/j.K beating throw and also he has 6K.

 

236H YRC throw is very difficult to contest on reaction. Then once they get used to counter-throwing, you can usually just 6K and get a full CH combo.

 

Generally Leo should prefer the frame trap over the throw, however, because if you "guess wrong" that usually means they are blocking you while you have frame advantage.

[C4IQ]

Some leo Combos from a grab.

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[Vecayse]

Is there a Leo Discord channel?

[Kikuichimonji]

Is there a Leo Discord channel?

Not currently no

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