Dime_x

Does Leo have any better than average, throw setups? Like you know, something better than 2p>throw or better than like 6H yrc>throw what I'm basically looking for is good setups for a dash throw from a blockstring... The best thing I can think of is wiffed 2S>dash break throw. anything better that doesn't take RC?

Alright I'll work on those and try em out thanks

The problem I'm having with Leo variance is range and my opponents counter hitting me out of my offense. Like.. What can be done after c.S? You can Gatling to 2S but there is no delay, you can Gatling to 5H but once again no delay, like everything has no delay and so it's easy for the opponent to see the stop and just avoid from what I've seen. there is no delay or variance and the only blocking threat is cancelling into 236 H (which kinda sucks) ive tried things like 5K,5k etc and I just get jabbed out easily... What's the counter for that from 5K? There is no delayed Gatling to CH my opponents from 5K that I know of. I can blitz shield... LOL I guess I'm making it out worse than it is or something. When I get in on some of my opponents they can't get me off of them at all. But the others just basically block and laugh, or have good timing and don't allow me to get away with dumb frametraps consistently. And the "smart" frametraps don't work...

Just picking up xrd again because people seem to be excited for fighting games again for a bit while sf5 is looking to come out. Had troubles yesterday since I'm basically damn near picking up Leo from scratch again. had some observations that I wanted to ask about. firstly I got pwned hardcore by slayer dash shenanigans... Then once I got used to that and started to own it, then the slayer switched it up and started to just own me with slayer buttons. I couldn't really break out of his poke strings, it seemed very varied, but to go on forever. Had a mixture of 5Sxn and bla bla slayer stuff. Tried to fd out and to dp out but they were only weakly effective. then played against a chipp elf Faust and axl... Sigh. one of the primary things I noticed was once my opponents had a feel for my Leo, they could kinda just block me out and interrupt me if I went for anything after my Fra,e disadvantaged moves. This left my offense pretty weak. I WAS getting a lot of counter hits but I was getting them less than what would be conducive to a sustainable game. so I came up with a blockstring that while lower damage, seems to perhaps be what Leo should be going for rather than 5K>c.S>5HS i thought that going 5K>c.S>f.S might be overall better in terms of a bnb blockstring/confirm since the f.S can be canceled into so many things and also has has stagger into 5H. on hit the latter string does less damage against standing opponents since you have to go into a sweep but against crouches you get a lot more. i like this string so much because the f.S has so many cancel options: 5H 6H any special jump 2S 6K so what do you think... Does it have merit?

Hossa (Leo) and BOB (Leo) beating up on hasegawa (I-No) and Roi (Sol) http://youtu.be/YdVG-ZnlSms Sorry but I don't know how to change link names. I'm old.

Back when I was still playing this game this was one of my favorite uses for meter. But I didn't do it in blockstrings per se. I just did it at neutral. Also, though this was before any patches, you could cancel much quicker than you show in that vid. You could cancel so quick you can barely even see the fireball forming. It made for a ridiculously good poke for getting and out prioritizing just about everything on its way in. A lot of times I just used it to safely move forward without having to deal with getting poked into a combo. Idk if it still works like that, but yeah, great move.

I havent been keeping up because there is no scene out here anymore. But [4]6S was already crazy good being 2 hits and hitting as high up as it did (and the yrc it had was just bonkers) Now it goes full screen? Jeez thats a super buff. Did its recovery get lengthened or something to compensate? -edit Holy cow they improved his stance transition by 5 frames..jeez. Incredibuffs. Me likey.

I still think leo has some latent strength that i at least havent seen leo players using. For now ive stopped playing xrd because the scene seems to have disolved out here in perth and the internet is trash when your connect is less than 2mb. Having said that i did get a couple offline meets when i was playing leo, he does seem overall to fair, but i still found some latent strength in his moveset: Basically his S fireball is really good as a poke. Its got more range than most far S slashes (way more) and comparable speed. His [4]6S yrc is crazy good. Most leos i see (all actually) are trying to abuse [4]6H instead... But i feel like the fundamental power is in his S fireball when used from the right ranges. I see backturned stance as wholly something to be used on oki or at far ranges from the opponent for the reflect. But his yrc game is rather good. His S fireball has 2 hits so it can destroy most 1 hit fireballs and leo can advance on the opponent with charge voa wiffing 5K None of this makes leo godlike, but he DOES have tools, neutral game ones at that. I think leo is going to be hard for people to pickup that want a blockstring mixup character. He doesnt have the greatest high/low game. And i also think leo is kinda hard countered by projectiles that cant be reflected (rams and elphs projectiles as an example) but other than those things, leo is poised to be a decent character. Tldr, people need to throw way more fireballs with this guy.

There are some things with leo that are still highly unexplored. His S fireball yrc is like sols gunflame yrc and leo makes good use of yrc in general with his ability to neutral yrc and then dash in and use his now pumped up 5H (its faster there because the opponent is slowed down) From the 5H, leo has options: Gatling into 6H to get closer and be at +5frame advantage Or cancel into 236S for a knockdown confirm on hit, or minus 1 on block and pretty close to the opponent. Or cancel into 236H for a crossup that is plus 1 on block from the front or the back. And leos neutral is a bit better than what is currently being shown. His S fireball is extremely fast startup and covers a big part of the screen. It covers characters trying to ground poke leo or ground fireball him since it has 2 projectile hits on it. Doesnt go full screen but thats ok since no one really wants leo full screen since they dont want to deal with H fireballs huge hitbox and 4 hits. For pokes leo has a good amount that are plus on block: 5K,c.S,6K,6H,236H,2S, stance K, stance H, stance S and his 5D and first rekka are only minus 1 respectively. Doesnt make him top tier nor elevate him to A status on their own, but he does have some standout qualities to make a decent case for himself.

Just got done playing a 60 game set against an elph player. Cliffs notes, all these things are pertaining to the matchup, not necessarily to leo in general: 1. My opponent didnt know about throwing leo out of 6H and i found the matchup hard enough to not educate him at this time. 2. Elphs 5H beats like everything leo wants to do, except leos sweep hits it for free. 3. Elphs 2S however beats leos sweep clean 4. Elph is bullyable on her wakeup after sweep or after 28HS with leos 6K. 5. Pineapple is hard to deal with for leo. If hes trying to get in against it and it makes contact with him, then it will fall with leo and be a ticking time bomb allowing elph to easily follow it in and pressure leo. Even if leo hitconfirms the elph player, it doesnt matter because the bomb will explode and knock leo out of his combo and the elph player can easily confirm into an air combo. 6. Double jumping over AA pineapple is t the greatest look because leo will fall into elphs c.S AA 7. Staying on the ground underneath the AA pineapple isnt a good look because elph can follow it in and beat just about any leo retaliation such as poking or jumping with her 5H 8. Cornered shotgun pressure and dash up command grab is hard to deal with, so dont get cornered. 9. Try to pester elph with S fireball at near its max range range in neutral. That fireball is a great poke. After doing an S fireball that makes contact, throw another one or throw an H one. 10. Use 4K to advance from 3/4 screen range while retaining charge for neutral S fireball pokes. 11. Backturned stance against elph at neutral is terrible. You cant reflect her projectile so theres no reason to be in backturned when far away. Leo seems to have a type of "build" so to speak: At 1 meter he can threaten things like 5H>6H yrc into throw/6K mixup, or he can yrc his 46S at neutral as a way to get in or to simply gain some space if he was near the corner. Speaking of the corner, if the opponent is in the habit of giving leo space to bait the dp, leo can yrc his S fireball to gain control of the situation and go on offense. At 2 meters leo can poke into 236H crossup and rc into full combo. At 3 meters leo gets to spam 46S yrc to fully establish himself as a huge neutral game presence. At 4 meters leo can do just about whatever he wants. Meter is super important for him. Unfortunately i actually wrote alot more than this, but my ipads undo button decided it wanted to be a dick, and im not re writing everything i said, but if it seems kinda wonky, thats why. I need to find a good counter for when the opponent backdashes after blocking 6H. All in all, i think leo is much more about using his fireballs at neutral to control the opponents keepaway options, then going in once he has meter, unless of course the opponent wants to rush leo... But most everyone ive played against just plays keepaway from me.

However you want to use it is obviously up to you im just happy that after watching hase play that he actually used many of the tactics i thought yrc would be good for. i especially liked how once he got cornered he airdashed out and yrc to slow his opponent down and make them unable to AA him on his way out. Today i used yrc to punish a dp from further out than midscreen... Normally i wouldnt have been able to punish but yrc made it easy. I also yrc a reactable dust. I normally cant yet block dusts on reaction cause i dont have the experience to see the red glow... But while they were slowed down? Pssshh easy. And i used a yrc to punish a f.S wiff on reaction as well. But it isnt nearly as easy to use as i thought it would be. I wasted probably alot more meter than i used well, but my gameplay was overall more solid as well, because i could slow time at critical moments and screen check. All in all though from play testing my favorite use for the yrc was to do it then make the opponent block my leos 5H that was the most abusive thing i could find and it was very very easy to implement into my game. The next yrc im looking to abuse is 46S yrc, but in my actual games i kept mistiming it and getting late yrc.

I havent seen any jap players abusing this much at all the way i describe (with the exception of gunflame yrc stuff) though one of my friends has told me that some venom and i forget the other characters, use this as well. Hase slayer huh? Ill get right up on it and watch some right now. Always on the lookout to steal any tech i can (but i admit when i steal tech, because there is no reason not to). -edit HOLY FUCK. first match first round, this motherdude gold bursts, gets full meter, jumps once and wiffs 3 yrcs midjump... This dude is off his nut. Uses this the exact way i was thinking. Yo hes awesome, gotta watch more, but popcorn first, this is going to be good.

You are right. When i tested it i must have been looking at the waking animation when the opponent is getting up, because that is a YRC, but if they arent yet getting up it is an RRC like you said. Will amend.

This is a thread to chronical all the uses for yrc that can make a character better. The first thing to note is that as it is, YRC is vastly underexplored for such a powerful option. It probably has the chance to change the meta, it really can be that powerful. Having said that, in order to make it powerful... One has to know how to use it and in what situations it can be more powerful in. Making contact with a character can be said to be the most important thing to do in a fighting game. Once you make contact you can run your mixups and pressure and get damage and set the opponent up for further mixups via knockdown and okizeme. Knowing this, YRC becomes a VERY useful tool to enable just about every character to do just that. We all know about fireball xx yrc stuff. And weve come to know about yrc wiff option selects as well as to just make our pokes more safe in general. Well thats just the tip of the iceberg. YRC is powerful enough to affect just about every aspect of GG. Its up to the player to use YRC how they want and to figure out how their character can best use it... I will just list useful applications of YRC: 1. Increased KD advantage from far knockdowns. (YRC slows the opponents knocked down corpse) -edit1 the above doesnt work as a YRC if the opponent is still on the ground, but DOES work if they are rising, yet not hittable. Much less powerful and may not have any particularly good uses? 2. YRC screen checker (neutral yrc to see if the opponent is in the air or ground, and go from there) 3. YRC air to air (yrc when you see the opponent air dash backwards/neutral jump/ forward jump and then punish them) 4. Yrc wiff punish (think the opponent might wiff something big? Yrc so you can REALLY SEE the wiff and gain a proper punish on reaction... Also good against sols wiffed dp 50/50, and can make some punishes that would normally be very hard to do such as chipps fullscreen blocked maximum spider against characters with no run, much easier) 5. IAD YRC (when iading into yrc 2 things happen: 1. You retain forward momentum from the dash and immediately start to fall down so this is like a regular jumpin but faster and with more range. 2. You can immediately use FD. Try out the pattern of super jump, airdash, immediate yrc, jump attack. It acts like a bit of a divekick for leos j.k. Im sure other characters have very similar things. 6. Jump over /under fireballs and airfireballs respectively. Then activate yrc to increase your pressure advantage and maybe even get a punish... Faust doing f.S xx item spam? Yrc his item toss and pressure him while hes slowed so he cant easily outpoke you. 7. Yrc slow down those pesky chipps and millias so you have a chance to catch them on their last jump on the way down, even if they land a half screen away from you. 8. Defense. YRC to see that overhead or slowdown your opponents offense and give you a bigger gap to get out. Jump up while in the corner then yrc and airdash out above their heads while they are slowed down and cant AA you on the other side. 9. make the startup on certain moves safer such as long startup fireballs. (As opposed to making the recovery non existent like current (gunflame yrc, etc) 10. many many Character specific things. And we cant forget that the tension use means that there is a tension gain penalty and an amount of damage proration to balance out yrc and meter use in general. So tl;dr Lets discuss the always expanding uses of yrc and how they affect the game, what the best uses are/who gets the most out of current yrc (go go gunflame) and more and more ways that we can abuse this unique feature of xrd

OMG. i just theory fightered up some... Maybe awesome... Maybe not so awesome shit... The problem is it isnt leo specific. Everyone can do it. Anyways: Whats the most important thing to do in a fighting game, in general... The thing that separates the advanced players from the exceptional ones? To me... Its simply making contact. Of course there is more to it, but in general, once you make contact, thats when you get mixups and damage. And one of the most fundamental things is not letting the opponent make contact. So... Seems to me that doing neutral yrc or simply using yrc in not so known to be used places... Can be a very good thing at least at the intermediate level. Like something i just noticed is that yrc has SO MANY MORE applications than what it is currently being used for. If you see your opponent jump in the air... Yrc slows them down and makes leo faster (than them)... Therefor it becomes easier to make contact with them or AA them on reaction cause you have buffed anti airs. Same with ground pokes. SAME WITH OKI!!!!... Dont have enough advantage? Just yrc and now you have more advantage to work with. Your opponent spamming fireballs/keepaway bs? Yrc to slow them down, increase YOUR advantage, make their anti airs harder to time if they are using normals AAs. Sol uppercut bs 50/50 on block? Yrc and now you can react what uppercut he did (maybe) Stuck in the corner on defense? Jump xx yrc airdash out while your opponent is slowed down. This can really really be a game changer... Maybe. Havent tried it out on spam, but there are so many theoretical applications that the slowdown from yrc can be effective to completely change the game.... Its going to be fun experimenting on what the best uses for yrc are gojng to be outside fireball yrc and stuff.

A couple of cool new little neutral game tactics for leo sorry if anyone is using these already: 236S or H yrc on wiff then 5H Basically makes leo run forward toward the opponent, then yrc stops him and slows the opponent down making leos long ranged 5H much better since it will be able to deal with slow pokes for its duration. The yrc point on 236S extends into the active frames, so its full range can be used for forward movement. When using this it is probably prudent to stop when you get into max range for 5H if you were doing this from far away. Doing a dash and then canceling into rekka and then yrc brings leo in from full screen away. So with meter, leo has some options against speedsters like millia and chipp to try and close the gap. Brynhildr stance from fullscreen: The strategy is to make space and throw H fireball and then yrc it and follow it in. Fireballs wont work because leo can reflect them. The opponent will need to go in or try to make their way in. Or let leo gain momentum with the yrc. If the opponent wants to jump in, then leos P in stance is a wonderful AA. If the opponent wants to approach on the ground, leo can dash towards them and S or better yet, do stance 214 S RRC and he is effectively in, though for 2 meters. This gives leo options from most places on the screen to go offensive no matter the range as long as he is willing to spend some meter to do it. Imho these tactics though not to be used in a spammy way, even used once or twice a round can make leos neutral much better. Another very good look for leos yrc abilities is to spend as much meter on [4]6S yrc. Looking at the fireball by itself it looks like a kinda bad yrc. But the slowdown does everything for it: Harder to jump over because the opponents movement is slowed, and leo can follow right behind it just like gunflame yrc. Whereas gunflame yrc seems great in blockstrings and on wakeup, leos looks great at midrange. Just need a bit of distance away from the enemy to make sure that it doesnt RRC. In fact, this seems so strong it almost looks like what leo was designed to do, spend all his meter on neutral 46S yrc. Just some stuff to experiment with

No tech on ground throws (they arent even that good in this game) but have a tech on airthrows. Seems logical to me. Groundthrows give you many ways to get out of them via reversals, backdashes, throw invulnerable moves, FD jump out, not being throwable for a huge amount of time after coming out of block/hitstun. Airthrows give you waaaaay less ways to get out of throw tech traps... So throws techable in the air. Not on the ground.

Good stuff. I do think that 5K>c.S Is the eventual string to hitconfirm if one can do it consistently. The less deep into your string you need to go to get a confirm, the more leeway you give yourself for further mixups into the string should it be blocked. Good tick throw setups as well The primary difference between 5K>c.S and 5K>2S is that the c.S is a natural combo into 5H... But, the 2S makes them respect those ankles, so if 2S natural combos into 6K (will have to check) then it is probably the better overall choice because it is +4 and hits low. I think it has less range and more pushback than c.S though, so that may be something to consider as well... Plus the jump cancel like you said. There are a few different things to consider.

In my recording from yesterday chipps 5K was getting countered, in the quicker recording from today it is trading however. I believe this means there are hitbox issues. I test against f.S because at that range is where most characters are going to be able to try and attack leo (most P and K attacks will obviously wiff) Chipp and faust are the only characters that i know of that can easily trade or interrupt this. Faust can interrupt with 2P and trade with 5P chipp can trade with 5K. -edit and zato 5P trades. A theory fighter answer is to just sweep them as long as the sweep trades its a huge trade in favor of leo -edit 2 yes the sweep trades against zatos 5P giving leo free oki. In these situations, leo has more health pool than either character and the move he is trading with does more damage. So the trade is in his favor on those merits, but in terms of returning to neutral its probably not in his favor. Getting countered by fausts 2P certainly isnt a good look either. But i mean the poitn of this string inst really to break it down into charater specifics... Whos to say the faust player will figure it out? And everyone else will come up with there own specific ways to beat it... I think its up to the leo player to adjust to his opponent. This string does seem to force the opposing characters into a much more defensive or technical mindstate. Like if the opponent starts to IB the 6K, leo can either dash in while the opponent is trying to IB, or he can jump cancel the c.S instead of gatling into 6K... Just you know, leo has options at that point because he isnt far into his string yet. Its deep in strings that leos options tend to suffer. Also also: Ive started to think of 6H and 5H as gap closers. 5H because it vacuums and 6H because it moves forward with frame advantage. 5H should probably always be canceled into rekka 1 when done raw, for the confirm. Up until the opponent starts to IB the rekka at which point it might be prudent to start doing 5H>6H to throw off the IB timing. @uncivilized elk I dont like 6P much either. I got used to GG style 6P attacks from the OG BB arakune C (tongue attack) it was extremely slow and lots of active frames and it launched on hit... It was an amazing AA because of the upper body invulnerable parts. Leos 6P seems to need for the opponent to be REALLY deep because of its bad actives, but when deep, the opponent can start to interact with waist vulnerability within their jump attack... I guess... Eityer way i was struggling to use it as well.

Well, glad to spark some discussion in this forum... Its the reason why i post things like the string we are talking about... To get discussion going. I mean i cant take credit for finding the string since its extremly obvious and something every leo will find in time, im just trying to get discussion gojng on its ramifications. Ok so, i retested a recording against the characters that you mention and yes it seems to be your timing. None of the characters i just tested including ky,sol,chipp could interrupt the f.S However, in my recording from yesterday where i tested against chipp, he could trade with his f.S. I assumed it was just shitty timing on my part and todays better timed recording just confirmed this. Ok so having said that, though i found all these yesterday.. I consider them to be obvious so i didnt mention them.. But ill do so now for sakes of completeness. Ways to beat the f.S: Both fortunately and unfortunately the ways to beat this pattern are numerous. 1. You can IB the 6K and then do whatever (f.S seems to work for most characters) 2. You can regular jump out (will still get hit but in most cases you should be able to tech i think) 3. You can FD jump out "1 frame jump" (completely gets out of the way and even allows a punish against leos wiffed f.S) 4. Some characters 6P will avoid leos f.S 5. Reversals in general 6. Backdash ( no timing really needed, its basically a free out). I guess you could consider the backdash and a reversal near the same thing though. And there are probably more, but thats not the strength of the pattern, the strength is that we have another patterned option for the opponent to look out for, and more stuff to look out for means that our original threat of gatling into 6H becomes more of a threat.

Moar leo string stuffs... Im starting to figure this guy out as far as offense is concerned. Leo can stagger this entire string: 5S>5H>6H>rekka 1,2,3 Which means after any of these moves he has mindgame feints, and even if he were somehow to get the entire string off in a staggered fashion, he can still rc at the end. But that isnt the point, the point is that that above string can be used as different combo parts in other strings for counterhit, and yet still have a fall back option on many parts if his first counterhit attempt were blocked and he fears retaliation. Anywho thats just the basic theory, on to the actual good stuff: Leos primary string seems to be 5K>c.S>6K After that, leo is plus 4 from a decent range away. Thats actually a VERY good thing for leo because it sets up a "bnb" further pokestring point that happens to go into many different options: 5K>c.S>6K on hit go into rekkas and oki set play, on block do: 5f.S>5H>rekka 1 if leo has enough to rc here then he should and take his "free" high/low mixup of 5D or 2K>2S confirm into sweep or on block since 2S is positive you can go for pressure or a CH. Note that if your opponent actually blocks all of this their risc meter is screaming. There is a 6 frame gap between the 6K and the f.S. Few light attacks in the game will reach though, so if the opponents wants to attempt an interrupt here they are generally going to need meter. But any f.S or light attack should lose and get CH and then the whole series combos into rekkas. If they block up to the first rekka they have approximately 45% risc... Not enough to counterhit, BUT! If instead of canceling at the first rekka you instead cancel at the 3rd rekka and then run a mixup, the first hit WILL be a CH, unless they block correctly of course. What this means in a nutshell: Leo gets crazy good pressure with meter and long ass blockstrings without meter. Leo can end every blockstring at either plus 4 or minus 1 with no meter and be crazy advantaged with 2 meters. Bonus gold burst setup: Anything i to blocked rekka 1 or backturned rekka 2> gold burst. You now have 3/4 of your burst meter refilling and 4 meters to play with. Not necessarily something to go for in the beginning of a round, more for 3rd round comebacks after youve built no meter from getting your ass wooped. Because at that time killing power rather than not dying power, is more needed. Not dying will just prolong the inevitable.

I figured this out right away, but only because of previous experience with fighting games such as samurai showdown where ukyo could backdash and then cancel his low airborn backdash into his air fireball, giving him a wonderful ground space control tool. Idk how powerful it would be on GG seeing as to how theres a big yellow flash before the overhead plus astute opponents might be able to see the airborn frames of a backdash and know that the opponent CANT do a low, such as leo. But its still more than likely worth it, especially against not super reactive people. A more prudent question is what characters can get combos off of these falling away overheads. Leo has a backdash yrc overhead into j.P but i couldnt find easy ways to combo from it... Though i didnt test against crouchers either and probably should have now that i think about it.

What are people thinking of the new characters elph, leo and sin? I dont have enough experience with gg to give anywhere near a valid opinion. But my gameplay perspectives seem to go like: Leo: most effective hp in the game after pot, also has the most limited movement options besides pot. Does good damage and has solid, yet predictable, oki. Neutral feels sluggish due to not having a run, but having a slowish dash instead. Has some good pokes in S and HS and j.HS. Powerful fireball game if he gets time to set it up and follow it in. Slowish P and K attacks, but has a good reversal. Seems to have issues in most matchups because characters can either out fireball him such as ram, or out maneuver him such as chipp. Relies on dust to have an overhead in regular stance. Elph: Seems like a bit of a jack of all trades character, but no meterless reversal. Her 5S seems outranged by much of the cast, but she has amazing damage and pressure up close as well as antizoning abilities via her far pineapple. Her unblockables are said to be mostly a gimmick against people that grind the ways out with their characters. She has easy meaties via pineapple throw which hits on the first frame and allows her to pressure after knockdown very well. Rifle stance needs more exploring as it seems underwhelming so far. Sin: Dont know much about him at all except he has very abusive things for his calorie meter. Can cancel "calorie using specials" into one another near infinitely as long as he has the calories to do so, which allows him to put lots of hitboxes on the screen in a small amount of time in exchange for calorie useage, does lots of damage as well. Anyone willing to say a few things on how these characters are panning out right now?

His guard point is extremely unsafe its active for 77 frames and has 14 frames of recovery. Thats a second and a half for the opponent to run in and throw leo at their leisure or at the very least, run in and get guaranteed pressure if they were really really slow. I think its more prudent to see how the opponent is dealing with leos ground pokes and go from there. If they are able to consistently wiff punish f.S on reaction then id say that going for P guardpoint is the best possible thing, but if they are running in and pressuring the wiff, then wiff canceling into 5H is probably the best option. The thing is...most opponents are not going to be able to wiff punish it on reaction with any sort of consistency. Most people will try to pressure the wiff, which is why the f.S>5H gatling will more than likely be best to start with. From there leo can choose what followup he wants to do depending on how his opponent is likely to respond. Also, i dont think this is just for protecting oneself on reaction i think its there to protect via option select. Leo can do f.S>236P>5H or 6H and if the moves make contact then the rekka comes out and since its spaced far leo is basically safe. If the f.S wiffs however, then 5H will option select and come out. Its a way to do 2 basic things really: 1. Protect your f.S on wiff from people that want to run in on you 2. f.S done to purposefully wiff from a closish range into 5H. To protect 5H FROM being used to close to dash in f.S from other characters... In other words the f.S becomes a screen check. Im nowhere near saying that it is unbeatable, but before i knew this i had to be more defensive with my buttons whereas this will allow me a bit more breathing room for my grounded footsies should they wiff. One more thing: The wiki does state that f.S can wiff gatling into 5H but it doesnt state that it can also wiff into 6H, nor that 5H can wiff into 6H... At least as of this post.

So ive put more thoughts into leo now. Ill try to make a long post short(er): Having no actual good leos to watch, ive decided that leo is a bit of a cross between pot and.... For better or worse, sol. Just as far as neutral is concerned. Hes like pot in that leo has the second most effective hp in the game after pot (618 for leo 657 for pot, 486 for chipp at the lowest) the nu,bers arent an exact science and i didnt work them out and there are other factors such as not always getting the full amount of guts out of your hp bar, but i digress, leo is given hp somewhat close to the slowest character in the game. So... Looking at pot matches and seeing how his big ass gets around, he does alot of... Letting his opponent come towards. Him, leo seems to be at least a it like that. In my offline matches i found my ability to do what i want, to be better if i simply stayed out more often than not and allowed my opponent to hang themselves... Because simply put, leo, like pot, cant keep up with speedsters like chipp or millia. Alot of what i do i is to pressure them as they land. And leo actually has good tools for that such as his H vacuuming the opponent in, and his f.S giving jump cancel pressure. Another thing that pot does, or at least fabs pot does is he always walks forward... Of course he has no dash, so walking forward is his best option in many respects but it also has the caveat of building good amounts of meter. So, having explained that, my new style of leo is based on 5K>5c.S mixups: 5K>c.S then: 1. Jc j.K>j.H 2. 6K 3.f.S 4. Delay f.S>rekka 1>f.S>rekka 1(hitconfirm any Ch f.S>rekka 1 into rekka 2,3) When the opponent gets used to 5K>c.S stuff switch it up to 5K>2S>2D to catch them low and then either RRC on block or hit, or go for oki on hit. If they respect the 2D then stopping at 2S and do delayed f.s with frame advantage from for a CH setup. Neutral with opponent landing from air BS on improperly spaced jumpins against leo backdash/forward dashes: 1. 5H>rekka 1 confirm 2. 5H>6H (ch confirm into rekkas) 3. 5S>jc 4. 5S>6H 5. 5S>rekka 1 About 5S>rekka 1: Cant be punished with pressure from many jabs if 5S done from near max range. I dont think any of these patterns are GREAT on their own, im more looking for an overarching string theory... Lol. That allows me to give pressure as much as possible while also allowing for hitconfirms. This just in: Ive read most of the thread, but i dont think ove seen this anywhere and this DEFINITELY GIVES LEOS NEUTRAL ANOTHER DIMENSION: S>H>6H all gatlings on wiff! What this means is that at neutral, leo can protect his wiffs by gatling them into the further ranged next highest attack... So basically. If leo wants to dash in and do 5S, he can, but if he wiffs he can OS gatling buffer H so that if the opponent was barely missed, the H will make contact, and also,if the opponent wants to try and wiff punish the S into their own pressure, they will be eating an H for their troubles. Idk how many characters can wiff gatlings besides leo and ram, but leos wiffed gatlings have mucho range... So this is just another dimension to his neutral game mixups that he can play.