Venom vs Sin

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss this matchup here.

[DaiAndOh]

This matchup favors Sin (as of now).

 

Sin's poke game is strong as one can figure. Your neutral must be on point.

 

Pay close attention to his food gauges, his pressure (and mixup to some extent) relies on it. I believe I read it takes 40 frames for his food to be fully eaten. Be prepared to interrupt with 2S/f.S/HS Stinger. Maybe you can utilize YRC to slow him down to help punish bad eating attempts?

Sin can YRC food after he eats it, and he can RC/PRC his hunger state after a certain point.

 

He has a low profile low hitting dash for one of his specials, so you can't be reckless with Stingers.

 

Beak Driver (his mid stabbing move) is 2 hits, has 11 frame startup, is chargeable, causes level 5 blockstun and negates all projectiles. Very annoying to deal with...

[Greatest Guess]

c.S will only hit him once if he's crouching unless you're extremely close, so keep in mind that you'll usually have on less hit to confirm with(you usually get both hits on block for some reason). He has a very unique wakeup animation(highly delayed?), so maybe some unique setups are possible.

[DaiAndOh]

Yeah, his face up and face down wake up times are very different from one another. I urge people to check the data here (with the exception of the first hit of 2D, Venom's knockdowns will be face up)

 

http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=System_Data_(GGXRD)

[Kinslayer15]

Only thing I've found to help ease this match up is doing more low ball set formations like K ball> P ball it helps because it give a ball sin can't slide under and one about pelvis level that Gives safe but still solid pressure. Other than that I don't know. He has an amazing backdash 1-16 frames of in invinc out of 24 frames which is insane with all the tools he has so pressuring him at a distance is mute. Nly thing we can do is block and pray he starts running low on meter also using meter to yrc his instant overhead setups is a good way to keep yourself from eating one, same with his specials, using your rc to extend the duration of his moves and not just shorten the recovery on yours is a really important thing to do in this match up.

Also while the super is lack luster we might want to look to see if bishop rook runout helps. The size of the ball might be solid enough for us to keep him from moving for awhile while we apply our pressure (if you apply the move correctly that is).

[DaiAndOh]

I feel more this matchup is close to even, if it's in someone's favor, it's slight.

On a lower level, Sin's risk/reward is more obvious and apparent than Venom's. Slide being +2 is huge. I do more Carcass Raids midscreen and further because Sin's tend to favor to approach with it (adjust per player).

Sin though has a lot of difficulty opening strong defense. Sin has no true instant overheads, even with YRC and j.D.

Because of this, he's limited and has to rely on food. Again, poke/hit/YRC, if you stop him from eating when he's low on food, it really becomes in your favor.

Slide is not true low profile status though, so you can 2S it I believe!

[Justice7541]

Sin is free to Blitz at least. If you see him going for overhead, Blitz. He has to YRC to bait your Blitz so now he's burning both calories and meter on his pressure. You could basically Blitz him twice then just downback constantly while he does Bull Bash YRC Bull Bash YRC Bull Bash YRC Bull Bash YRC Bull Bash > Slide > Eat and punish the eating. I've actually had this happen and it was hilarious.

Sin's DP kills meaties really hard since he can cancel into slide on block and it's +2, but the invul isn't that long and the range is bad. Use ball setups and/or meaty Carcass to keep him locked down.

If he tries to do Voltec Dein you can eat it with Dark Angel if you react to the pre-flash windup properly. Not the best use of your meter but it may be better than giving him the free in in a clutch situation.

[DaiAndOh]

If you have time to Dark Angel, you have time to YRC I imagine? I really don't think that last part is useful.

Blitzing j.D as overhead isn't reliable (but very easy to do it to his overhead slam as you said)

[DubiousCurvLoop]

Sin has a fuzzy overhead setup on Venom. If you block his 2H standing, he can go into j.h > RTL. Afaik, that's the only way he can convert off of j.h, so keep that in mind if he has 50%.

EDIT: Actually, instant j.h will hit crouching Venom standalone, so it's a true instant overhead.

Another random note: if Sin likes to dp out of Venom safe jumps, we can buffer in a blitz shield as an Option Select.

[Justice7541]

So I discovered that Sin can 5K to avoid getting hit by match startup 2S. Pretty funny. He recovers faster than Venom does too so he gets "advantage" from the mutual whiff.

[Pomparomp]

I can't wrap my head around baiting his DP. I can get them to throw it out, but figuring out how to space myself during K ball so that it whiffs so it's actually punishable is another story.

[edollarports]

Are you talking about the regular Venom KD ball setups? Those beat Sin DP free, just proceed as normal.

Other than that, I'm not too familiar with Venom's ballsets, so idk

[DaiAndOh]

Are you talking about the regular Venom KD ball setups? Those beat Sin DP free, just proceed as normal.

Other than that, I'm not too familiar with Venom's ballsets, so idk

Usually in those mixups, Venom will block the DP when he baits it, while Sin can still cancel it.

 

The only way off of K ball I can think off is if you hit a ball without advancing forward much, he dps and whiffs and you air dash in to punish him.