Venom vs Slayer

[DaiAndOh]

Discuss this matchup here!

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

What can we do to deal with Slayer's hyper-dominant air normals? It seems like once he gets in range you just have to deal with jHS. Preemptive 6HS would be great if it didn't have that damn dead zone near Venom.

[DaiAndOh]

I'm not sure his j.HS hit box is closer to AC or +R, but if it's +R, 6P should take care of it if it's not too deep. 2HS brings you closer to the ground so if he's hitting you from higher up, perhaps that could be of service.

If it is too deep, you'll have to just suck it up in that case.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

I'll have to give 2HS a shot. It will probably require a little preemptive timing ala 6HS. Can we capitalize at all on an AA CH 2HS, or just settle for a guaranteed ball set?

Another thing that really messed with me was his backdash. It seems like he can backdash jump cancel shenanigans to get out of and punish a lot of Venom's pressure and oki. Is there a way to prevent that other than a hard read with fS or 6HS?

[DaiAndOh]

Not sure on Venom vs BDC fully. The best advice I can give you at a glance is that if you're meaty, he has one frame to reversal his backdash, but yes, BDC has been a thing for 10+ years ^_^

[DaiAndOh]

Oh sorry, on AA 2HS, on counterhit you're guaranteed a S Carcass > 6HS at the very least.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Trying to practice this matchup and there are a couple setups I can't seem to figure out how to deal with a couple little pressure strings.

5K/clS 6H xx P Dandy, It's Late frametrap(s)

Stuff > Dandy into no followup throw vs It's Late H extension vs It's late 2K

I did manage to figure out that you can turn cornered clS jc IAD pressure into an RPS situation:

Slayer pressure: clS fS, jc IAD jH/jS/land throw

-preemptive clS beats jH and land throw but loses to jS hard

-2H beats jS but pretty consistently loses to jH (at least in this situation)

Even so, the above requires a good read or reactions so I don't get all the milage I could out of it :/

[mirri]

Can you 2D Dandy stuff? Seemed to work for me but not sure if it is a legit strat or just luck

[Redefinition]

Can you 2D Dandy stuff? Seemed to work for me but not sure if it is a legit strat or just luck

Can't remember EXACTLY, as it's been a while, but I'm pretty sure it's only at very very specific ranges. And it has to be early (so it has to be done raw, which I don't know why a Slayer would do it raw). Like, I'm pretty sure 2D will straight up lose to anything that's not It's Late/Under Pressure. And eating counter hit pilebunker or crosswise heel can hurt.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

2S and 2D can mess with raw dandy stuff, but from a blockstring hitting buttons can be risky.

[D-D-Domo]

His 2S beats our JH at pretty much at any height.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

True, but his 2S beats almost anything anyway. If you get hit by that a lot, try occasionally tossing in MS. The pause at the startup will sometimes screw with his AA timing.

[D-D-Domo]

His 5P is also a good anti-air.

 

Anyways, make sure your oki is tight because he can backdash through it. He can backdash through a good chunk of our moves, cept for something like HS Double Head Morbid. I like using it if they try to BDC into something in neutral and you're at a spot where ball summoning might not be the best idea. Of course DHM is definitely minus on block so keep that meter handy. 

 

Also if you're complacent with Carcass Raid in your pressure, he can Dandy>X punish.

 

You can throw him out of Helter Skelter, and any time he tries to dash cross-up through you. You can throw him out of his various Dandy Steps too, but it tight ya'll.

[GodPress]

Slayer has to make some really hard reads to take much advantage in this match in my experience.

 

Whilst he has strong frametraps that can and will turn into 200+ damage with meter, you can, in a lot of situations wait for the inevitable dandy and 2D(even better if you have meter to YRC in case things go south) it on reaction for the KD & oki setup, whilst he has BDC it doesn't change a massive amount of our oki game and in some cases adjusted for it (j.D BH is nice). 

 

Round start its relatively even you both have options to force momentum early, PB, Upkicks, 6P & Mappa for Slayer and Mad struggle, DHM HS, 2S & TK summon for Venom. 

 

His anti-air game is good with 2S beating a lot our air options and 5P > 6H CH leading into some huge upkicks damage near the corner. Staying on the ground or meeting air-to-air is advisable but if you find yourself in the situation where you are in the air blitz can be quite handy. 

 

In terms of your zoning game SH (optional P if there is time) to force slayer into the air and use J2K to navigate over the balls as he can't 6P through the ball travelling to the ground. Singular balls such as P set 5P allow Slayer to 6P right through them, not ideal if you're chasing up behind them, the solution to this is use SP if there is adequate time to set this up, otherwise stick to screen vertical screen coverage in my opinion. 

 

Be wary of your ball sets as he can and will punish your recovery with Mappa if you've miss spaced and that's not a situation you want to be in.

 

Make it a priority to try and JD his Mappa, it opens up options for you and stops him doing silly things with mappa bdc. 

 

Also, Slayers j.HS is no where near where it used to be in AC or #R, it is not the giant hitbox of impending doom it once was, don't be afraid to 6P or 2H it. His j.D on the other hand is pretty good. 

[DaiAndOh]

Footloose Journey YRC also helps him get in and punish summons from the midrange.

 

Can't recommend DHM as a roundstarter. Maybe 2D though? It beats Mappa and a few other options.

[GodPress]

Footloose Journey YRC also helps him get in and punish summons from the midrange.

 

Can't recommend DHM as a roundstarter. Maybe 2D though? It beats Mappa and a few other options.

DHM-H is just a straight hard read but it will beat out any dandysteps at round start, where as 2D will lose to PB & maybe Upkicks at roundstart. I can't recommend it as a "go for it every time", but its a definite option in a longer set. 2D is a pretty strong round starter beats Mappa, 6p, and I believe f.S & Slayer's 2D, although it will lose to his 2H.

[DaiAndOh]

Surprised 2D loses to pilebunker...maybe it's the nerfed low profile, but pilebunker is risky to start with.

[GodPress]

Most definitely is, it's on the same risk scale as DMH. Thinking back I most commonly use 2S or Madstruggle.

[TittyFOFO]

Neutral jump j.P, falling j.S has served me well as a round opener here. Good against stuff like Mappa and forward dash, and doesn't get hit by 6HS. Also gives you plenty of time to react to other crap like Dandy Stepping or 6P. Slayer doesn't really have any godlike aerials that I'd be overly concerned about, so shrug.

[SIne]

I like this matchup alot. slayer has to take more risks than he would like to get in and when he does 2s stops alot of his dandy step and mappa pressure and leads to damage with meter. His IAD j.HS pressure can be 2HS'd. and HS stinger yrc gets alot of mileage in this matchup as in alot of other. Slayer has alot of frame traps though so it very important to know when to disrespect his stuff. Air ball set ONLY when you are SURE you have the space to so and not unnecessarily or without yrc (although not worth the meter in some situations) cause man, 6hs CH is never fun

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

Fino showed off some good stuff to deal with Slayer's shenanigans. For example, unless DStep S got stealth nerfed in 1.1, you can IB (maybe regular block in some situations too?) it as long as it's not meaty and can backdash out of the S>H vs S>2K 50/50. His 2D and 6H "can" catch you, but at least you can force then to rely on more than the raw mixup.

[DaiAndOh]

Actually what I saw Fino doing was IBing the Dandy S, then either 2K or c.S to hit any attempts at It's Late or 2K. Not sure about it being a straight punish, but looks very useful.

[SnowMonkeyFunky]

He did a mix of both. There were one or two occasions where he got CH for trying to counterpoke with 2K, but he might have just hit the button late or DStep S might have hit in a way that gave Slayer that extra hair of frame advantage he needed.