Mizzet

I've been off the grid for a few days so I haven't kept up to date with stuff. Is there any confirmation on Noel's d.5c losing it's JC'able property? It's listed on the loketest2 thread as 5d which is probably a typo. I'd consider that a huge kick in the nuts if that's true, unless some other move is becoming JC'able. As far as her damage goes, CS Noel is practically built around d.5c being JC'able, there are almost zero combos that don't use it. I hope j.b hitting below will open up some new opportunities though, like a 9 superjump after 5c into j.b j.d, which is possible on Tager now actually, because of his size.

It might open up some interesting combos, stuff like d.6b 4d d.5c and so on. So basically it's like CT's d.6b?

2b 6a gattling on top of 6a hitting crouchers is really nice, doesn't get us killed on block for trying 6a and people actually have to pay attention or they'll get launched into 6c j.d > some drive stuff for I think 1.5k'ish. As it is our current pitiful 2b 5b 5c 2c isn't a good enough deterrent. Man I just want to get my hands on CS2 and find replacement combos for her. Pretty confident that the loss in damage from haida and 623d 66c can be made up.

I would assume 5c > 5d would be pretty big for Jin. Suddenly he can actually do stuff to standing people instead of 3c 2b relaunch or sekkajin combos. Still waiting for Noel to get something like that.

How much faster can they make her optic barrel and chain revolver i wonder, it's already so much faster than in CT. Any faster and you can probably combo into 236a off something like 5c lol, that would be sort of interesting. Would prorate damage to hell but hey it's abare and leads to knockdown.

"Noel D moves changed" Does this mean entirely new moves? Like how d.5c changed completely from CT to CS, or just stuff like adjusting hitstun/proration values etc. Spring raid launching in that direction definitely means no more 623d 66c combos outside the corner, and no haida loops either so there goes our damaging options off 6b/3c (you either went haida or 623d 66c route). I'm not liking this. Bloom Trigger sliding I guess just gives time for you to run over and pressure on wakeup, oki basically, it's already able to do that though. Unless it slides so long you can run over and relaunch with 2b, who knows, maybe mid combo 236d 66 2b relaunch might be a new thing going. If they changed around Noel's chain revolver attacks, we'll probably be able to find new combos to replace the current ones (I hope so lol).

I've been doing j.d d.6b Fenrir too instead of j.d Fenrir since you pointed out it was possible, tiny bit more damage than just j.d straight to Fenrir and I haven't come across any case where the opponent techs before d.6b. On a kind of related note, I noticed unlimited Noel's d.6b is her CT d.6b in terms of it's knockback. It knocks people downwards instead of away and you can Fenrir after that even if you did it to someone in the air like her old CT drive loop (6b 5c 6b 5c).

If you respond quickly enough, you can just optic barrel Lambda out of it, or time it so it clashes with the projectile if Lambda doesn't happen to be in one of the a/b/c spots and you don't have time to adjust. In most cases it's not so bad that trying it will get you CH 5d'd by Lambda or something, that would be a really late optic barrel and at that point you're best off just super jumping to avoid it. 214d eats up iad's when it's out because of it's height, but it has pretty long startup so if you airtech and your opponent went for 214d but timed it wrong, iad j.d will connect. If you were a little slow and you're about to smack into the 214d projectile, iad j.4d actually works too. Also once you get 50 meter the Lambda has to be very careful about 214d because you can just j.236236d on reaction, you have time to iad or jump to space yourself for it to connect if you react quick enough to 214d. 236b/236c isn't free for Lambda, while it's almost even on block, Noel's iad airthrow will catch them if they jump back and if they backdashed that iad should have you falling in their face for more pressure. Both can be 5d'd on reaction too, there's a timing of course but it's not too strict. Wakeup Fenrir will guard point 5d pressure and the bullets will hit Lambda in her recovery. It's not a wakeup ultra kind of guessing thing, get a good read on your opponent's pressuring habits, and watch for Lambda's 5d startup animation. Oh and don't forget to block after teching an airthrow, some Lambda's will try and sneak in j.dd 214d after the tech because you're put at just the right distance for it.

I personally find Lambda a solid 5:5, Noel's mobility is actually usable in this matchup and there are a lot of shenanigans specific to this matchup. For example after all her combos ending in j.214d, if they're greedy and try and setup 214d for more pressure, just air tech + iad j.d, free combo. Meh 0.5's not much of a difference anyway.

I got a question about how antiair invulnerability works though. Let's look at 6a for example which is "5-10f invincible from head attribute attacks", does that mean 1) My upper body is invulnerable, and the design intent is it works as an AA because most air to ground attacks usually hit the upper body. If I get hit out by something like j.c, it's because it's just so long it reaches past my invulnerable region and smacks my lower body or something? 2) Entire body is invulnerable to attacks that are given the 'head' attribute, probably most aerial normals I guess. In this case, would it mean your 6a would beat any jump in as long as you timed it right? Exceptions would be cases like extremely long normals like Hak's j.c, if he spaces it right, even if you time your 6a right it hits in a way that's too far to follow up easily.

Have you seen Valkenhayn's 6a and 2c? God damn lol. I find if I use 6a it gets stuffed too easily by Hak's ginormous j.c or j.2c, rather slide through with 5d and try and tag him in his recovery with it.

Some notes regarding Valkenhayn's distortions. 632146d - The ground super, has very slow startup but good invulnerability, it's slow enough that 5d/2d during the super flash will go through and counterhit. You can take the chip and block it all and punish with 5d as well, it'll counterhit - you'll be too far for 5c to hit if you block the entire super. j.236236c - air to ground dive, punish on any block with 5c (will counterhit), 5d is too slow. His 6c is a pretty nasty move he can throw out as a frametrap, that will beat your 2d if you try and 2d out of his pressure with it. Fatal counters, puts him airbourne, removes a primer, wallbounces, overhead, pretty safe on block. He has, really really good normals, 6a, 5b, 5c, 6c, j.c, they put Ragna and Hakumen to shame lol.

It's been what, 2 years since CT came out and I still can't get this down for some reason lol. 236cc 3d~9 j.c 9d~9 j.c etc etc, that one. I always have the j.c whiff underneath after the drive hit, am I doing it too slow? Pretty sure I'm doing it asap.

Slightly improved [h] 2c 6b 5b 3c 2b 5c j.b j.b j.c j.236236c [5365], might need to walk forward a little after 3c to 2b if the opponent has a small hitbox, I can't see you hitting 2c point blank that often though.

You could make Noel's j.4d instant kill on FC and it would still hurt you more than benefit you in the long run for even thinking of using that lousy move.

I was going to type a bit about how awesome Noel's 2d is but Dragontamer beat me to it and as usual explained it very well, lol.

Hehe personally I'm lazy and just do the 623d 66c one since it's universal and only does 100-150ish(roughly, I don't recall the exact difference) less damage compared to a 4 rep haida. Only characters I use haida on are those braindead easy chars like Tager/Haku/Bang. If you have the execution it's certainly better to go for the full haida loop from a min/max perspective though.

Yeah, you want to delay the j.d that comes after 66c as much as possible, so it's hitstun doesn't 'overlap' with the 66c's hitstun and get wasted. Need to drag it out as much as possible so it holds till 6d connects. It's kind of tight in that particular combo starting from j.bc, you're on the knife edge of proration at that point, more so than other combos because throws prorate so terribly - getting that much off a j.bc is pretty incredible already. Not sure about the second one, I've never run into that problem before, the tricky part for me is feeling when 236a recovery ends so I can input the next 66c - too early and you won't dash, too late and they'll tech as 236a has lousy hitstun.

Noel's drive hard counters mashing I feel, especially 2d, and to a lesser extent 5d, I triple perfected a Litchi a couple of weeks back, felt good lol. Most inexperienced players also tend to have habits they don't break out of easily, like Ragnas' doing the hell's fang followup on block (free damage!) or Litchis' gattling anything into 3c on block (you can mash 2d out of that 'blockstring' and counterhit the 3c).

Where did you see his vid's? SBO stuff? I've not come across it yet.

I kinda agree with this, if j.4d becomes not useless it will open up some nice options for Noel, might even be able to do some mid combo j.4d shenanigans if it's quick enough. 5b JC'able on block like it is now would be more useful if j.4d became a legit threat. And depending on how the 5b > 2b gattling improves her abare I think I'm pretty happy so far.

If 22b range being lowered means it hits closer and becomes less picky about spacing on small characters, I'll be pretty happy. You can probably add one haida rep into Noel's 623d 66c combos and up the damage by 100-200. 22b 6d into midscreen d.6c would be more accessible too, still working out the 22b 6d link.

I see they updated the Noel section of that writeup with "5B> 2B Gatling added". It could potentially be very useful for Noel's abare from sources other than hitconfirming 5a/2b. Given how bad Noel's abare is I consider this a pretty good change. Can go into 5b 2b 6a 6c j.d++ if close, and 5b 2b 6a 5c aircombo if too far for 6c, should net a solid 1.5k+ off 5b hits. 2b 5b 2b 6a++ should be really easy to hitconfirm as well, and go into 1k'ish damage. More importantly now we have a way to convert normal hits into oki instead of that lame duck 5b 5c 2c combo. Also, easy mode combo that gives oki if you're too far to connect 6a > 6c, you can do 6a 5d 623d instead, and 6a 2d 623d into 66c j.d++ if near corner (Reason for 2d is because 5d whiffs underneath your opponent if he's cornered, unless he's Tager).

I am itching to see what other changes they have planned for Noel, anyone know when's the next location test? Also I would kill for a video of someone using j.4d, probably the only move in CS that's so bad everyone kind of forgets it exists.

There was a loketest vid of Noel but the player didn't even touch j.4d once , so I won't bother posting it here, nothing to see.