OrionXElite

Ok in all honesty, the Beam Super is me just being optimistic and it goes with a theory I had on the way back from EVO that went with my "Give Tager a stock amount of Sparks" concept. The idea was essentially that Tager starts out with 1 Spark Bolt filling half of a 2 Stock Gauge(Unlimited Tager). Then you can use them for a variety of things. It would help a bit with zoning as you don't have to rely on just ONE guess to try and get you started with some kind of momentum. Having 2 makes the neutral game a lot different. What would you use them for? Getting in? Magnetism? REALLY long combos that builds TONS of meter or I had this random thought that maybe he could have a 2 Stock, 50 Meter beam style Super as an even faster reactionary tool. But again, just a wishful thinking, I know its illogical as hell and stupid :3 As for Tager's meter usage, oddly enough its not as off scale as it may seem in terms of damage. What kills him is WHEN he has to use his meter. Tager is usually stuck tacking on a super at the end of combos. Thats pretty much the ONLY time its useful combo wise. Everyone else can get roughly the same damage using meter for an RC but they build most of it back during the damn combo. Like take Valk for instance: on a standing opponent, you have to go 5B>5C>236A>RC>etc. you get a big long combo after that and you end up getting back around 40 of the meter you spent to get the combo. If Tager had that kind of meter utility, he'd be a lot stronger. But his meter utility usually involves supers at the end of combos, gimmicks and making pressure safe. I think an AA super is a manageable concept but it needs to be treated in the way as it has in the past. One super to cover one option and a good non super option to cover the other. Potemkin, Zangief and THawk all abide by this rule. Potemkin has Pot Buster and Heavenly to cover ground and air. In SF, Zangief has 360/720 and Lariat and THawk has his 360/720 and his DP. Not to mention in SSF4, Zangief and THawk both have to choose between having really scary ground game or really scary air game. NOT both. So what they really need to do is give Tager more reliable AA option. Collider needs to be head invul sooner and longer and its to have a better hitbox/hurtbox so you can't get fucked over on it. Damage on it is fine. Collider is one of the better starters for him so its great if he can begin with it cause he gets good damage, meter and GF oki. Collider is only really good as a yomi tool, not an AA as it should be.

Ironically, grapplers typically dont dish out HUGE damage outside of their grabs. Look at Zangief, he's a fantastic character, amazing normals and good fast throws. But he spends half the match just poking you till he can get that one knockdown and then he goes for the big shit with his grabs. So in all honesty, Tagers damage isn't bad unless you're hitting that 5A :3

All of my responses are in Bold, not all of them are negative, they are all my personal opinions based on the point at hand. Wall of text alert :3 all normals faster like unlimited tager (enough with this super slow bs) I'd only make 4D, 2D and 2C faster. Everything else is fine. higher overall damage (i think all combos should get at least 1k-1.5k damage across the board increase) I'm kinda 50/50 on this. Yes he should do more damage, but giving him too much more given the amount of heat he can generate on a good hit can actually make him too strong. Tager getting 5-5.5k per combo AND 50 heat in the process would mean that nearly everyone is within the "1 Hit, 1 Reset" spectrum of losing and that is too strong. I'd say make his combo rating about 50 and tweak some of his moves and he'll be fine. 6B breaks primers again Agreed more usefull gatlings (ex. 2C>4D back) This is kind of eh for me. Its not that we need more gatlings, its just that our gatlings need to be safer overall. make 2D good Its actually good as it stands, its only -1 at point blank range. With 10 active frames, you can create a big Frame Advantage if you set it up right. It should be faster though. Double jump 1000000% YES 6A 6A super armor starts much earlier Yes assuming its not Frame one, I think frame 5 would be fine. It would make it more useful in footsie situations. 6A regains projectile invincibility separate of super armor Yes this a frustrating loss for Tager as now we have to risk being even more unsafe against characters like Bang who have TK D Nails as an option against GF oki. 6A covered Backdash, D Nails and them just blocking which made it really good, now its just good for Backdashes. 6A super armor stronger (3k base dmg) NOOOOOOOOOOOOO This would be awful. This would mean it could eat ANY Super completely and go right through it. 6A charge cancelable I dunno if you mean like Special cancel to XYH normally cause you can already do that. If you mean cancel the hold into XYH, then yeah maybe that could be a good change. Make people respect it if they try and hit you low by going VTC>720 out of the hold. But even then, that could be too strong. As a side note to this, 6A in general needs to be overhauled. Its fucking useless now. The fact that all anyone has to do while they're magnetized is just Super Jump and they get out of it for free. Not to mention that with the loss of the Jump Cancel, pressure with it is god awful. Your only truly safe option after 6A is 4D which leaves you at even on normal block so you're gonna be screwed anyway if you aren't careful. Command Grabs more untech time to be able to easily otg collider ALL chars after 360A/B This is fair, the micro walk bullshit is tedious to learn but sadly necessary to make his Buster's REALLY hurt. 360/720 in block-stun/hit-stun are always green instead of purple NONONONONONONONONO Thats a terrible idea. With 50 meter, you could add 3700 damage onto ANY combo that ends in GF cause all you'd have to do is GF>RC>360B. If you have 100 Meter, they're fucked cause on top of that combo, they're adding 7400 to it. Only Tager could live through that. Add an air buster This is TECHNICALLY what Collider is for but they need to fix Collider in order to do this. Collider needs to have a smaller hurtbox and it needs to have better head invul. Special moves Bsledge has same startup as A sledge Not necessary really, what trade in startup you get back in the fact that BSledge is +3. It would also make some of his combos harder. return Hammer hyper armor from the CS2 location test Ehhhh...Maybe, If you could do Hammer on its own and it had hyper armor a la Potemkin's HammerFall then yeah, maybe. But as it is now, It would just be this silly mixup bewteen mash or don't mash. sledgehammer has magnetic pull (but only if the above hammer changes included. Hammer is the only green energy attack without mag pull) Unnecessary change really. Its never the Magnetism it needs, its the reach and lack of disadvantage on block. invincibility on spark start up (usable as a reversal) MAYBE, this is a concept I've thought a lot about, I think it COULD be a good change, it would make people respect Tager a lot more on his wakeup and not be so willing to lame it out and let him get Spark Bolt. The problem is giving both a meterless reversal and a 5.6k Metered reversal, it would make him un touchable on wakeup 90% of the time. voltec charge and 6A not vulnerable to lows, (that's what that giant freaking leg armor he wears is for) I think its a fair mechanic to make those lose to lows. What they need to do is fix the Magnetic pull on 6A to make it MUCH stronger while holding it to keep them from jumping out. This way, you either block it normally or you reaction Low with it. XYH doesn't need full body guardpoint as you shouldn't be using it in a way to block moves and punish. voltec charge fully cancelable for real into all command grabs (not this near impossible 11f startup bullcrap) NO this cannot be implemented into the game as it will make Tager very stupid. It will create this obnoxious mixup EVERYTIME he decides to Charge. It'll be "Charge>Hold while churning butter, do you think they hit a button?? CCCCCCCC!!!" Can't have that. The VTC>720 Cancel was integrated into the game for the sake of giving Tager stronger 720 mixup mainly off of his 5A and 2A cause in CS1, it was really hard to do anything with those. In CS2, Tager's 5A is EXTREMELY scary now with it being +2 and possibly ticked into 720. Magnetism alter magnetism system so its not crap This is fair, Magnetism tends to fuck Tager over more than help him *COUGH*Hazama*COUGH* magnetism affects all chars special attacks (especially in the air) Not really sure how that could be applied to the game without it being too strong except for maybe a slight increase of Gravity so they can't jump away as easily?? I dunno. magnetism timer YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES Spark meter fills completely on one full voltec charge Ehhh...I'd be more happy with Tager just starting with a Spark Bolt and then having to get it back. Assuming it doesn't become a reversal as stated earlier, I think Tager would benefit more from being able to stock 2 of them and use them as desired, for dealing with Zoning, getting Magnetism or for combos as I'm sure 2 Spark combos would be hype :3 Supers higher minimum damage on terra break (50% heat for only 700 damage is pathetic) Yes, needs to be MUCH higher honestly, for what you spend to use it, it should be giving you at least 1500 minimum. MTW ->Terra Break needs to be stronger than 720 for the 100% heat (or make it only 50% heat combined like unlimited cs tager) Also yes, the cost of 100 meter and it only does 1400 minimum damage total. Thats awful. The fact that we benefit more from just going 2C Fatal>AC>ACWhiff>MTW>Terra Break than a full combo into it is ridiculous. New possible supers super magnetism 720 for 100% heat same as CT unlimited tager The Magnetic Pull on 720 is already really good. Making CT unlimited Tager status would be too strong at a footsies level. VTC>720 would be really difficult to deal with in a lot of cases unless you're full screen. spark beam A Ranged Super that can deal with bullshit zoning, yes I think he needs it. Doesn't matter what it is so long as its full screen within 2 Frames after the flash. super Air buster Air-to-Air Supers are really difficult to work with. I think something along the lines of a Super Collider could be plausible, but would need to balanced very well. Moderate damage, good startup, good for reads not guesses. I dunno, thats a very hard concept to work with. improved standalone Terra Break (usable as a reversal) COULD be useful but we already have 720 so kinda not necessary. Yeah so those are my thoughts. Overall, Tager just needs to have his old 6A back, make Collider better as an AA, give better oki off of GF and fix his damage a bit. Also, wall of text, apologies if this offends anyone :3 Enjoy you NAHchos AXIS :3

I used A piece of street fighter terminology there. Link in the sense of the move fully recovering before doing anything else. Example being 6B>5B. Gatlings after 6B are airtight. 6B>3C is unable to be DP'ed. Hell, if they don't IB, 6B>2A is airtight.

Not trying to be mean but there are a lot of things wrong with that list TagerTime posted. When I get home tonight I'll elaborate on the problems I see. Get ready for a wall of text folks :3

Ok so I had a few thoughts watching these: 1) While you were trying to respect his DP, you were doing it at the wrong times. He was way more willing to throw it when you were resetting your pressure like after 236A. Thats a very weak spot to reset pressure so be willing to block sometimes and bait it. When you have much stronger oki though like after a j.C, he didn't throw it as much cause its harder to get a read that good to throw it. And don't respect him as much till he has meter to RC it. The risk/reward of throwing a DP against Valk is fucking terrible so use it to your advantage. If you can just block one when he can't RC and make him eat a 2C starter combo, he'll throw it a lot less. 2) You were too scared to move around in Wolf Form outside of just sitting full screen and strafing. Not to mention that when he was just charging at you, you only ever ran backwards, and then you got hit for it cause you got to the corner. You gotta be more mobile in Wolf Form, jump around when hes running at you or hell run at him and play chicken. Just don't be one dimensional, keep moving and be random. 3) Don't be patterned, that was easily your biggest problem cause over half the DPs that hit you were through your blockstrings. He instead of resetting pressure on 6B everytime cause even though it is +8, if they IB it, they can DP through anything you link after. Try doing a delayed gatling into 3C or 5C. 5B is only -1 so you don't have to gatling after it everytime. If spaced right, they can't punish it and you can hit them for trying to mash with something like 5B>5B or 5B, wait, 2B>5B. Just keep it varied.

I guess I should've clarified, I hate Tager mirrors against Coopa cause I can't get into his head. But everyone else is usually fun especially if we both act like dumbasses in order to win :3

As much as I hate Tager mirrors, I'm willing to throwdown if people want practice. I can also provide Valk experience too, just don't be mad when I can't adjust to online timing right away. I've been wanting to play more with people not from norcal. Yeah it's laggy and shit, but it's better to have that variety of playstyles to use to your knowledge. So if anyone on XBL wants to throw down, I'll troll my best :3

Depends on how close you are to the opponent when you try it. Magnetism doesn't matter for it unless you're doing j.D Whiff>j.2C. Its useful to use when you're doing 360 followups and when you get a 3C knockdown after a bad starter like 5A/2A since that keeps the proration as low as possible to give you Colliders full knockdown.

QUESTION! Are there going to be any kind of side tourneys going on during this?? Given how there hasn't been an NCI for almost 2 months, I'm looking for every chance I can get to troll :3 Real talk though, any chance we could have a 2v2 side event? I'm tired of 3v3s and 5v5s, they take too fucking long, 2v2s are quick and concise while providing extra entertainment :3 EDIT: If we really wanna be silly, we should do random pairings :3

Irie(Valk) vs Sutorecchiman .Jr(Tager) Shi^Za^(Valk) vs Mayohiga(Noel) Shi^Za^(Valk) vs Sakuma Bure^Do(Mu-12)

Its strict but its something you'll want to learn cause it gives Tager retarded oki setups with cross under lows, overheads, tick grabs, even tech traps if you really wanna be an idiot :3

It's actually really hard except for like Carl. Tao is by far the hardest cause she has a faster falling speed. I hate trying to slingshot in match cause I always fuck up :v I'll take VTC>720 over that any day.

Fumo(Arakune) vs Shou(Valk)

I do :3

It's hard to get used to standing honestly. Took me a couple of days to get it right. Im curious as to if it would help to record my hands doing it as a reference to see how fast you have to go :P it would be shitty laptop webcam quality but I can do if it might be helpful :3

Hell I used VTC>720 in pools at EVO :3

You must've seen me play C0R after pools to fill up stream time. We were both learning the matchup and once he figured out to just zone the shit out of me, I got too impatient to wait. I'm actually mad at myself cause my Tager carried my Valk's sad ass around the whole time. Went 4-2 in pools cause I had to counter pick with Tager:v:

Couldn't we do teams later in the day?? I know a lot of people are gonna be out hunting down food around 1 especially people who have to be at early pool play for AE. Seems like 5 or 6 could be a better time to start but Its just a thought :3

If I had to guess, he looks likes hes gonna be the type that its either him or the doll moving one at a time unlike the simultaneous workings for Carl. In the screenshot they showed, hes posing while Ignus is attacking. I think the concept of tag team combos is actually really cool, but then you go overboard and you get Carl who just gets unblockables all the time:v: Ignus looks like a much more aggressive attacker compared to Nirvana whereas Relius looks like a much slower moving version of Carl. I'd imagine Relius has a Hop much like Valk and Hakumen and probably has limited options on his own. I'm definitely interested in how ASW keeps Relius from being a clone of Carl. They've done very good work in the past (Sol vs HOS and Ky vs Robo-Ky) so they must have had a lot of thought put into how he would operate mechanically to keep him in a different play style from Carl.

I would be sympathetic to the fact that I have Dacidbro and Lord Knight in my pool, But I know that Pool 11 Has Zong_1, JWong and the legendary Spark:v: I truly wish you the best of luck good sir, You've got one hell of a pool to fight through.

You mean the part with the 5C>j.A(66)>3C>CA>(4BC)>5B?? Its an option select since Valk's j.A>3C>CA trick ins't 100% air tight. I know how it works, but I don't know why you have to go 66 after the first j.A. Although it doesn't make any sense to do 66 so I think its a translation error so I'm gonna assume its supposed to be 44. But otherwise, the way its works is like this: You go 5C>j.A and if they block it, you can option select the follow up by doing j.A(44)3C>CA>4BC>5B. This will force a couple a different actions to happen at once and depending on the way the opponent deal with it, it'll pick the option accordingly. If they block or get hit, the second j.A comes out and the 5B follows. If they try to DP the first j.A, it whiffs and you backdash. If they try to IB>DP through the 2nd j.A, the 4C will come out instead. This is actually REALLY useful to know cause it will probably work on the characters that we need i most against like Jin's DP(As Shown in the video) and Hazama's Kick Super. I'll see if I can get it down consistently enough to test what it works against.

For a corner combo that involves the 6B Fatal you're trying to use, enders are gonna be small for the most part. 6C>j.2C gets an air tech, 6C>2D which is a CS2 only combo due to the changes to 2D doesn't work. BSledge>4D works but not BSledge>5B>4D. So your options of enders are the following: AC>2D AC>BSledge>GF/4D AC>6C>4D AC>6C>5D Thats about sadly:v:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=29565096&postcount=7093 Heres another source with all the current changes. Game looks hype right now, I'm actually excited for it as most of these changes are somewhat going towards the right direction. Spencer looks badass, Captain America is looking really good, Ryu looks silly as all hell and I'm hype for Mr. Wright :3

I started on my 360 Pad and I can still play Tager to about 90% capacity compared to on my Stick. I only need one macro which is ABC on my Right Trigger Just for sake of keeping my hand comfy. The only thing I haven't learned on pad yet is to consistently cancel Voltech Charge into 720. My thumb isn't used to the motion like that yet so I'm kinda eh on it :3