Digital Watches

Which dolphin? Either way, 6P is better for anti-dolphin. Of course, you should watch out for FB dolphin, since throwing out a move against that is a bad idea. If you can anticipate dolphins, Rensen can work, but as they come out so quickly, this isn't always feasible.

Baaaad idea. I'm pretty sure her 6P beats that, as well as a bunch of her other moves.

What you really need to watch out for in that match is her (2)8 dolphin. It's fast, and makes both a great AA and a great move to punish things with against Axl. I used to have a very hard time fighting her (Now my only problem match is Baiken), and that, 6P (Which 2K goes under), and j.2S (Backdash if possible) were the moves that gave me the most trouble.

+>9000 Axl please.

Or you could just throw her first. She's not unthrowable for any of that move.

I'm not sure trying to SB it is a good idea, since you'd have to visually confirm whether she's doing the S or HS version, and the S version only has 11F startup. It's much easier to go for instant block, and then block or AA her (whichever you have time to do). Either way, try to get momentum away from her as soon as she uses the pin, as it really is her only real way of getting in on Axl from the air. EDIT: Oh. You probably meant Housoubako (623P). Well, if she's very close, it may be worth a try, but I'd say it's a risk, and probably better to just do the safer (not to mention meterless) option. Also: If you're going to try to hit her out of her roll, make sure to use fast moves with large hitboxes (2H, f.S, or 3P come to mind) or just try to throw her, as while she has no frames of full invulnerability, the move does make her hittable box very small.

Well said. I feel the need to go to that big tournament in Canada in Feb (if you're going to be there) so I can see how I do against you when we've both gotten more sleep

Aye, but those tips are things I see other OSes trying to do, and I'm saying that trying that will get them beat against Axl, because they're too slow and too obvious to beat out anything that Axl will try against them.

I agree somewhat with clayton that the other lists sound dubious, but the tier list itself makes sense to me. Do they have a matchup chart?

Good luck with that one. First you have to get the Axl to throw out random pokes before you do anything, which HOS gives him no incentive to do. In the meantime, BRP is a huge mistake, as it gets beat out by a ludicrous amount of things, and Rock It will just get eaten alive by 2H, 2P, Rensen, and even Rashousen. It's a good thought, but what you need to do first is bait something. Really, I'd say that Gunblaze is a much better tool for getting in, if you must try a random special. Again, you're assuming from the beginning that the Axl is doing something stupid and predictable. You've got to watch out for that assumption, as it ends up making any matchup an easy win in your calculations. Both of those options get beat out by an early round f.S or Raeisageki, two very common match-starters Axls will use.

No worries. As I've tried to make clear numerous times before, I'm always glad to hear criticism, and I'm never going to be offended at it (although sometimes I may disagree.) I don't quite remember perfectly, but I think that was a fucked up 623P. I jumped back, and then saw the j.K, and was trying to punish it. For some reason, I actually thought he wouldn't be able to block. Still, j.D gives a good amount of blockstun, so it worked out for me. No question there. I think both of us were still mentally recovering from the magical "eddie-dropped-out-of-my-combo-for-no-apparent-reason" moment. Yeah, don't know what I was thinking there. If I know they're going to block it, I usually am able to space the landing so that I'm not in range of anything dangerous, so I must have thought I'd be able to hit him. Probably would have lost me the round if I hadn't FRC'd though. Either that, or I was going for the awesome "3rd hit crosses up inside his body" setup, which he was smart enough to chicken block, screwing it up. "j.K? What j.K?" I think I was trying to scare him out of coming forward, but in retrospect, some offensive j.S probably would have served me better. My main mistake here was teching backwards from that burst. I think getting some offense going there would have been much better. Don't know what to say about the airdash, other than a j.6P, j.K, or j.D would have been better than j.H for sure. Yeah, definitely. I really wanted that corner crossup opportunity, and I think I might have been holding up or down slightly, which is why I didn't get the throw. That always sucks. Aye. Notably, 2S input wouldn't have been crossed up, either. It's especially funny that I tried the 6K twice. Sleep deprivation is one hell of a drug. Yeah, for some reason, I couldn't remember where I was in relation to him on screen, and kept thinking the 2S would hit. Yeah, as with all the unblockables I managed to avoid, that was super awesome. I just wish I could consistently reversal 1FJ (AKA "Flawless Chickenblock" .) Yeah, I have a bad habit of inputting very early on that gatling. Definitely. Eheh. Yeah. I'm glad it worked out, though. Yeah, I'm just glad the j.K didn't hit my 5P this time. In that particular situation, the huge startup of DAA only had a chance to activate off of Mawaru, which meant that he'd have had plenty of time to IB and punish, but I dunno, I just don't like DAA in general. Maybe I'll try it again sometime. Yeah, the flying was really weird to deal with, as many characters would have to fall into that after a double jump. I should definitely use 6K more in situations like that. Airthrow attempt. I double jumped fearing a Nobiru, which I ended up trading with anyway. Eh, making distance is iffy v. Eddie, and since I couldn't see what he was doing, an airdash would have been risky, since it doesn't allow me to block. Yeah. I was going for FRC into throw setup, but it's definitely good to know that you can get a 2K out so fast after a blocked raeisageki. I'm actually going to try to use what I did here more often to see if it works or was just a fluke. Much appreciated. Nah, I think I was deciding between 6P and 623P and forgot to hit a direction. The second one. The j.H was a decision made after I didn't have to block anything, and I don't remember if it was an airthrow attempt or just to try and beat out whatever he was doing.

Oftentimes after the pullback of a poke, Jam can jump over you with a tech. This makes her hard to AA, and if she faultlesses, your pokes may end up letting her get in. Therefore, it's best to keep maximum range when trying to zone. This is true in the case of her DP, but IAD j.H is a very strong option for her. It goes over 5P, 2H, 2P, and Rensen at max or near max range for all of them, and scores a CH on Axl before he can recover. Throwing out a 6K or 2S predictively (IE instead of the other pokes) can beat it, but also opens you up to things like run forward+6P, or FB puffball, and there's always the chance that the j.H or a last-second Gekirin will still beat the chain (Non-IAD property), as I've seen happen many times. If she can get the FB puffball (IE the FB flash) started up, your only options are Housoubako or block. SBing may be a good answer here, however, since it's a move that with practice, one can SB pretty consistently. Still, that doesn't help you if you have a move out (Even Gaps made by the Jam IBing are dangerous for this sometimes). The only real way to pre-empt this is to cut off the slide early with 2H, 2P, or rensen. Very risky, however, as once she has the invincibility, these moves being out will get you CH'd. Again, IAD j.H will go over most things without giving Axl a chance to recover. And even if you did have time to block, blocking up close against Jam is a very bad situation for Axl, as her Oki is good, and her options for combo or knockdown are great off of high, low, OR throw. In the meantime, Jam is great for building guard bar, so getting hit by a single combo means a great deal of your life, and most likely another positive situation for Jam. I agree with this part. Agreed, however, I'd still say that this matchup is probably one of Axl's worst. That by no means makes it unwinnable, though. Like Shoto says, patience and ability to block are key. I'd probably call it at 6-4 for Jam, which is by no means bad, but worse than, say, Eddie or Millia for sure.

Posted this in the Order-Sol forum: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=197819&postcount=137 It's basically a few notes on Axl v. Ordersol, mainly tips for HOS. I'm going to write about this matchup here later, but this is a good thing to read up on. Keep in mind that I would consider this one of Axl's best matchups by far.

Um. Don't try to SB the second hit of 2H. It's a lot harder than it sounds. For one thing, the gap between the hits can be as low as 0 frames, meaning that the second hit will hit on the frame after the first one does. Secondly, the gap will vary based on how far into the first hit (which active frame) connected. Lastly, the move doesn't need a CH to stagger, so even if you can wiggle out quickly, getting hit by the back-pull of 2H is just free offensive momentum for Axl. Probably a better idea would be to IB the first hit and FD the second, since this would presumably pull HOS closer. Either way, I'd call this a very disadvantageous matchup for OS. Keeping ground pressure, like most matches against Axl, is easy, but getting it in the first place is something that HOS doesn't really have very many tools to do. Your best bet is to try to bait the Axl player into throwing something out that won't connect, so that you can get in, but due to HOS's low jumps, mediocre airdash, and lack of moves that will reliably beat out chains while moving him forward (or for that matter, even gain a knockdown from far away,) HOS just has one hell of a time getting in otherwise, and Axl has no reason to do anything but wait and see what he should throw out. Focus on tripping up the Axl and taking advantage of gaps created to get in, and most of all, once you're in, STAY THERE. Keep pressure going no matter what. Watch out for Housoubako and go for lows often to prevent it. Also keep in mind that a smart Axl will try to push you out with FD, giving him enough time to try to beat you out with 6K, 5K, f.S, 2H, or 2S (depending on the angle you come in from. Also watch out for 2K, which will go over most aerial and some grounded moves. If you suspect one is coming, go for a low j.H, which will hit Axl despite the "low profile" hitbox. Just as HOS has few if any tools to get in on Axl, Axl has few tools to beat out HOS once he's in, but that doesn't mean you don't have to be wary of attempts. Some random things that might work getting in: -I've seen j.H beat out Axl's chains on occasion, especially Axl's j.S. -If the Axl is going for a combo instead of using optimal zoning spacing, it may be safe to try a SV to get a knockdown. -If you can get out of Axl's reach, you can try to make the Axl nervous by charging your meter and trying to bait pokes to beat out with the charge burst. All in all, this matchup is horrid for HOS, but definitely not unwinnable.

Nah. Millia and Chipp aren't that bad. Millia's only tool that really stymies Axl's AA game is her pin, so once you've blocked that, keep her away from it and she has no real way of getting in on you. Chipp is different, but not hard. The only thing you have to watch out for is his teleports, as having someone just above his head is something Axl doesn't like. If you could give me specific problems you have with these matchups, I'd be glad to help you out.

Ah, I hadn't even considered it as an air-to-ground option. Good stuff. Awesome.

I disagree somewhat, as you're neglecting to mention a lot of the tools Jam has at her disposal. With a SJ IAD, Jam gets past 5P with some ease, and with the huge hitboxes of TK Ryuujin and IAD Gekirin, she can beat out most pokes and AA options Axl has, especially up close (although I've found that 5H makes a decent AA in this matchup, surprisingly). Also having fast as hell moves like her amazing 6P, 2S and even j.P/j.S/j.H make her more likely to beat out whatever Axl is trying to keep her out, and if she knows what she's doing, she can almost always get a knockdown or huge combo off of these. She can also run under 5P, thus making it safe to run in, wait for or predict a low poke, and IAD into Axl's face during the recovery. In the meantime, FB puffball, as well as, to a lesser extent, the slidepast and the splits kick, still makes a great way to just break through Axl's zoning tools with invulnerability and possibly more combo potential. Add that to the fact that she has a decent DP that knocks down (which translates to a tool for trying to stuff long range pokes), and is hard as fuck to get off you once she's on, which for Axl means nearly impossible. (Same reason Eddie is hard, but I'd call that matchup more even for Axl, since it's kind of a one-mistake-loss situation for both players) All in all, she's DEFINITELY harder for Axl to deal with than Millia. Also: Mind if I put some notes on matchups in the first post as well?

Well, as with any fighting game, combos do damage, so strategically, by not doing combos, all you're doing is forcing yourself to guess right more times in order to win. Unfortunately, you're not going to find a character that doesn't have some combos that most pro players are going to use. The good news is, for the most part, characters have a lot of options as far as getting a combo from most situations where they can get a hit off. I do agree that you shouldn't focus on them first, however.

Thanks muchly. Like I said earlier, I think the aggressive approach is the best way to beat Eddie, who has a lot of the same defensive problems as Axl. Aye, I think I was a little more nervous about Eddie's j.K beating things than I should have been, and that definitely lost me some rounds. This is a very "do what I say, not what I do" situation, because in most circumstances, I'd definitely advocate waiting a bit to see which direction to send an attack, rather than throwing something out predictively (except in a few tech traps and at the start of the round). I agree on the j.S stuff, but in the case of j.6P, I'm hesitant to say it's very useful in this matchup, as it's very hard to follow up and a fast tech gets Eddie where he wants to be to rush Axl down (Which is not to say that Axl can't do anything about it, but it's a very strong position for Eddie.) On this one, since you're talking about specific situations, could you point out where in the videos you're seeing this? You're probably right, but I don't quite know what you're talking about.

Oh, yeah, sorry about that. I completely forgot to cross-post it here, even though I had intended to. I also posted something a little less complete in the Dizzy forum, but it's basically all from the Dizzy side of the matchup, and so I don't know how useful it would be to Axl players.

Okay, I'm bored, and this is a matchup I have a lot of experience with in the past year, having played against probably 6 or 7 testaments, at least 3 of which were very good... and this is arguably Testament's worst matchup, so... here are some problems Testaments tend to have, and some misconceptions I see in this thread as well: Testament v. Axl 1. While 2H is fairly safe to warrant, it's not guarunteed, and if you see a 2H coming, you should go for an IAD counterhit if possible, since that'll do more for you and is more likely to happen (The FRC and gatling into 6H both make warrant unlikely to hit if the Axl is paying attention). The real situations in which you should be warranting is when Axl tries to throw out a rensen at max or close to max range. This is a good zoning tool in most matchups for Axl, but he can't FRC it and still connect at that range, and warrant will get in very easily. Basically, you want to make Axl afraid to use that. 2. Unfortunately, TK badlands becomes less of an option for Oki against Axl, as he can reversal housoubako on reaction, or simply attempt to throw, scoring a 5H on wakeup, which also beats out badlands (For a nasty aerial counterhit) if timed properly. 3. Hitomi is still useful, but is also very much a danger to Testament in this match. In addition to the myriad of options Axl has to clear these off the screen, he can also use them to activate housoubako, which is invulnerable, unblockable on the ground, and scores Axl a combo on CH or for 25% meter with the FB followup, or just a free knockdown if neither happens. If you can set up situations where a low is hitting at the same time as the tree, Axl loses this option in this situation, but since the counter comes out on the second frame after input, doing this will usually give Axl ample time to block. 4. Backward EXE Beast blockstrings, much like Eddie's Mawaru blockstrings, have a few problems against Axl, due to his narrow hitbox. Especially if the Axl can IB well, expect to be unable to connect with certain things, and to occasionally have to abort the blockstring in order to block something. If you don't pay attention and know when your attacks will connect and when Axl is or isn't still in blockstun, you're going to be eating combos in the middle of your pressure game. Don't let this happen! 5. Obviously, against an Axl who watches where you set them and knows how and when to perform screen maintainence, Zeinests lose all purpose as hitting moves for the most part. However, they can still be useful to drain active frames from moves, giving you more time to react. Keep that in mind when using them. 6. Range is not the only thing Axl has on Testament. Up close, there are many moves Axl has that give Testament a hard time, and may come unexpectedly. I'm mostly referring to 6H, 5H, 2K, 2S, Housoubako, and 3P. Specifically keep in mind that: -Even though it's not listed in the frame data, 5H has some upper-body invulnerability, which will net Axl counterhits against aerial attacks, including Badlands and any jump-ins. It is also level five, which, while not specific to Testament, is a nuissance when forced to block it. -3P hits from a lot farther away than it did in Slash, and is a fast, low poke that doesn't leave Axl at much risk. It is, however, very easy to jump over. -2K is a problem for Testament because it can go under several of his ground zoning tools while not coming into throw range. -6H will go over a lot of Testament's lows, and I've even seen it go over S EXE Beast several times. A counterhit or meaty loses you a lot of life, and it will also often hit Testament out of badlands if spaced properly. -Again, Housoubako only needs 1 frame of startup before it becomes active, so much like Jam's parry, Axl does not need much time to react in order to pull one out randomly, but unlike Jam's parry, Axl can cancel into it from most of his normals. 7. Forward EXE beast is your friend. Usually, Rensen won't kill it, and since it comes out on the first frame, it is extremely difficult to counter or beat, and it will net you a trade almost any time Axl is trying to attack from up close, and trades tend to work out in Testament's favor. 8. USE MARKINGS: this was the one piece of advice Mint gave Jamie when she was having a hard time beating me at Evo. Axl is very weak in the field of fast moves and defensive options, and therefore having the crows on him can shut him down almost completely. In my personal opinion, Axl's best option here is to wait out the crow patterns, and maybe try for a random poke against Testament occasionally, but this still means that Axl will be forced to be on the defensive, and that's where Axl is weakest.

Cool tickthrow!

Magus: You were totally right! I can get Kokuu(FRC) into j.D bomber to work every time on longer combos. The key seems to be ramping up the gravity so that they fall fast enough to hit the j.D before being able to tech. On a related note: Some variations midscreen that end up doing comparable damage to a 3-rep rensen-string started B-loop variation: Tested v. Sol: c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen (FRC), forward jump (Delay), j.H (land), 5P, 2S, j.H, j.D, Kokuu: 198 c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen (FRC), IAD (Delay) j.H (land), 5K, 2S, j.H, j.D, Kokuu: 197/200/204*^ c.S, 5H, 2D, Rensen (FRC), IAD (Delay) j.H (land), 2S, j.H, j.D, Kokuu: 200/204/204*^ *Varied damage on the second two variations depends on spacing of the ground portion of the combo and the timing of the rensen FRC. Damage values are 3 hit rensen/2 hit/1 hit ^The portion starting with j.H can be replaced with 623H, 623H for knockdown.

Square gate is more common.