SteelCoil

Except apparently there was a case where Jin was able to jump cancel one of his normals and block the counter. Just a rumor at this point, though. But in CS, I do remember there being cases where opponents RC'd immediately upon hitting Zanshin. Of course, they just got hit anyway and wasted their meter, but now.... Eh, I'm sure it won't be too bad. Even if that does work, Yukikaze will still probably be unavoidable minus projectiles.

I wanted something that could bait a DP while being able to keep momentum reasonably well if he doesn't DP. The option select to beat jumps was just a bonus. I know a lot of Yosukes that love to either DP or jump on wake up so something that beats both is really nice. Empty jump 5B sounds interesting though, even if it's prone to all kinds of disrespect.

6C > Shippu is back guys. Now I have reason to use it again. I do like that they're buffing up the C normals too, and with the new wall stick on j.C, it might actually mean something when it hits. I'm wondering if the 20% damage increase on OD is universal. High meter gain is already a big deal for Hakumen, and the damage increase makes it an even bigger deal. Most of the other character's ODs seem very lackluster in comparison if they didn't also get this boost. I don't have any opinion on the Enma followup to the Ds until I see some frame data. Also, all the drives with the exception of 6D do close to the same amount of damage a drive combo does in EX. This probably means that the claim about Ds being uncomboable without OD is true. OD counter combos better be amazing.

Against Yosuke's DP, Labrys can do a rising j.A to activate Yosuke's counter and still be able to avoid it and land with a non-CH 5A punish. The advantage this has over simply waiting is that it doesn't stop Labrys' momentum as much as waiting does. If Yosuke crouches, Labrys still has enough time to do j.B before landing and still keep pressure if Yosuke doesn't anti-air. So you can do 8 > j.A > j.B > 5A almost as an option select. If you were to do this on Yosuke's wake up, you can catch him if he tries to chicken block with Labrys' j.A. The j.B ends up yellow beating, but since the gap between j.A and j.B is small, there's a good chance Yosuke will not tech out of it. If you don't want to bet on that, you can do an actual option select to counter this: Jump > j.A > j.C > j.B The j.C is inputted during the j.A animation so that if j.A whiffs, as in the case of Yosuke DP'ing or crouching j.C will not come out and Labrys will do a j.B instead. If Yosuke does a DP, there's enough time to confirm that and hit with a 5A upon landing. If Yosuke just crouches, the falling j.B still allows for pressure if Yosuke isn't prepared for it. If j.A hits Yousuke, as in the case of him jumping out, j.A will cancel into j.C with enough time to confirm into a Guillotine Aerial. There are a few ways for Yosuke to counter this. Rolling will get Yosuke out pretty much every time unless you can do a perfect meaty j.A, which is really hard. Yosuke can also anti-air j.B with a 2B or a delayed DP. Wake up Garudyne will catch Labrys trying to j.B. But for the sole purpose of beating DPs and jump outs, this option select seems to get the job done. If you do rising j.B instead of j.A to bait the DP, you have to be holding back to block the counter-attack and be very fast with the 5A punish. The advantage of using j.B over j.A is that you get more reward for catching a jump out, especially in the corner. But using j.B requires more precise timing and you don't get a free jump in should Yosuke decide to crouch. Still, using j.B instead of j.A might just be worth the effort in the corner. Getting a damaging option select that's easy enough to do has proved to be challenging, so this is the best I've come up with: Jump > j.4BB Your just buffering block if Yosuke decides to DP while buffering j.BB in case he jumps. If he DPs, be ready to 5A immediately upon landing. Reacting is not a problem. If j.BB hits Yosuke in the air, you have enough time to react with a djc. Getting this right is hard. You have to do the rising j.B immediately after jumping so that you still have enough time to block before landing because you'll have to block the counter-attack in the air. If you do the rising j.B too late, you won't be able to block at all. You also have to do the j.B early enough to catch Yosuke's jump before he can block. The last thing you have to worry about is timing this too early. If you do, j.B will hit Yosuke standing if he tries to jump out, and j.BB will whiff horribly. So you have to jump so that you can j.B within about 5-10 frames after Yosuke's wake up, and j.B immediately after jumping. It's even more of a headache with delayed wake ups. It's still doable though. Anyway, I did most of the testing of these 2 option selects off of throws and sweeps because it's easier to time, but it also works well after Guillotine enders. With Guillotine enders, you have to do a dash and/or forward jump depending on the spacing. You don't have to worry about that if you do this in the corner.

To bait out rolls and DPs, you can try a backdash, jump back, or just wait. When crossing up, you can air turn then air dash "forward" j.A to beat rolls and certain DPs. Edit: Air Turn Air Dash Forward j.A beats the following DPs: Yu Yosuke - When punishing, delay a 5A or use 2B/5B. Chie - Since it's not meaty, j.A will be caught by a 2nd consecutive Chie DP. As long as you block when you land, you won't get hit. Naoto Akihiko Labrys Shadow Labrys Elizabeth - It even works if she delays the DP. Just remember to only use this after a throw or close sweep. There isn't enough time/space after a Guillotine for this to work consistently.

I think they might be trying to make Hakumen less polarizing. He's always been awful without meter but amazing with a lot of meter, so I think they are trying make meter matter a little bit less by giving stuff that doesn't need meter. Kind of like how they're making curse matter less for Arakune. For example: Knockdown after throw without meter. Possibly comboable 6B 2A > 3C These changes ensure that he has mixup options should Hakumen have little to no meter and that all of his combos can end with a knockdown. So while combos cost more meter, Hakumen isn't exactly a sitting duck like he normally is when he has none. Is that worth giving up 4k+ combos for 3 meter? Probably not, but there's still room for doubt, if only a little.

So after messing around in training mode some more, I've learned some interesting things about short hops. 1. You can air turn after a hop 2. It carries the momentum from a dash 3. You can special cancel the landing recovery So normally, hopping sucks. j.B is only barely possible, and the only thing you can get after a non-counter hit is a Guillotine Aerial. But with the 3 points above in mind, hopping might actually be a legit mixup option. If you do a hop immediately after a forward ground dash, you go pretty far, far enough to crossup any crouching character. And with a little practice, you can do something like 66 > 2AC > j.AC > j.A for a crossup overhead. This has the most potential with Tsurugi oki, because it also doubles as a throw tech bait. You can also use dash hop j.C for an ambiguous crossup that doesn't need turning, but you can't use it during Tsurugi because they're both Persona attacks. Point 3 gives us a safe-ish option if the crossup/overhead is blocked if you didn't use it with Tsurugi, but it also gives us better combo potential. With point 3, you can do something like deep j.A > land > 214A > 236236CD off of an overhead that know one pays attention to. Considering our only other easily accessible overhead is the AoA (unsafe on block) and Guillotine (hard to confirm into anything) I'd say this makes j.A good enough to consider using in Labrys' bag of tricks. Especially considering it also beats throws, and you can do meaty stuff after Red Axe 236236C.

Against Yu, Yosuke, Mitsuru, and Elizabeth; Labrys can do a fuzzy guard rising j.A/j.B after a blocked Guillotine OMC. With j.A, you can only cancel into j.214A. j.B > j.214A only works with Yellow or Red Axe. If your in Red Axe you can do j.B > wait > j.C > j.214B for about 1700. So the reward for landing one isn't that great, but since everyone loves to do Guillotine > OMC > 2A (I know I do) this seems like a good way to mixup people who block low immediately after Guillotine. Edit: The overhead is very possible to do on Mitsuru and Elizabeth. It's just a little harder than it is with Yu.

Okay just tested stuff against Chie's DP. If Chie catches a 5A, an immediate jump cancel j.B will always beat the counter-attack, but if you do that, you're probably not reacting, which means that if Chie just crouch blocks, you will be at a disadvantage. If you delay the j.B slightly, you have more frames to react, but depending on the spacing of the 5A you will have to jump in a specific direction. At point blank range, do a neutral jump cancel j.B. The timing is pretty lenient, but if you want even MORE time to delay, you can air turn before doing the j.B and it will NEVER miss. The only way this won't work is if you're in the back of the corner and Chie kicks herself there. This shouldn't happen more than once in your lifetime, but on the chance it does, you have to forward jump cancel instead, or just block. At about max throw range, do a forward jump cancel j.B. The timing here is strict, but you can also air turn here to make it a little easier. At about max 5A/2A range, do a forward jump cancel j.B. With air turning, the timing for the j.B isn't as lenient/strict as the other two. The only time where you shouldn't air turn is when you do it immediately after point blank neutral jump cancel, but as long as you are reacting and not just doing it, that shouldn't be a problem. These baits are all 100% super cancel free btw. You can also bait them by just doing a 2B or charge 5B on their wake up. As long as you don't time them to be meaty, Chie will be in for a lot of hurt. She can roll out of it though. Also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-tCep3cXWk&t=2m2s

So since Labrys can combo off of 236x > 6 > A followup with Yellow/Red Axe, I just wanted to point out how great it is to use after a 2A starter (and 5B). Examples: Yellow 2A > 5B > 236A > 6 > A > 66 > 5A > sjc > j.A > j.C > j.214B - 1903 Damage Red 2A > 5B > 236A > 6 > A > 66 > 5AA > 66 > 5A > 2B > sjc > j.B > j.C > j.214B - 2433 Damage with 236236D - 5193 Damage For Yellow Axe, you have to dash a lot shorter after the A followup than you would with Red Axe. If you aren't satisfied with the 1.5k damage or 1k damage + oki you would normally get off of a non-CH 2A starter without meter, you can try this out. But the main selling point of this combo isn't damage, it's corner carry. The Yellow Axe version has about twice the corner carry 2A > 5B > 2AB > 214A gives (+more damage). The Red Axe version goes from coast to coast in 2 combos. So I was thinking, corner carry is nice and all, but I don't know any good corner specific combos to take advantage of that. Help?

j.B > 5A is amazing. Also, whether or not 5B can hit a crouching opponent at a certain distance depends on hitbox stuff. Some characters have a larger crouch block hurtbox than crouch neutral. So against certain characters, you have to be quick with your blockstrings to hit with a 5B. Others have a smaller crouch block hurtbox, which means you have to delay the 5B so it hits the opponent when he's out of blockstun. And then there are characters with smaller crouch hurtboxes in general. Stuff like that is why I don't like using 5B at the end of blockstrings. Hakumen doesn't really need 5B at the latter end of pressure anyway.

Hey, if you want a real slow, offensive character, you can always just hop onto the Azrael train.

I know. However, there are many times when we should really put those silly aesthetic reasons above gameplay balance. Hakumen would do better with a command grab, but there are other ways to make his pressure better without sacrificing his image. Simple stuff like giving him more frame advantage, more meter, or more damage/range off of normal grab seem like reasonable enough changes to buff our two-handed swordsman without turning him into a backstreet brawler. I mean, giving Hakumen a command grab almost feels equivalent to giving Tager a spammable full-screen projectile. It may make him a better character if implemented correctly, but the very existence of the new move creates a huge departure from his initial design. As I said before, because Hakumen is a pretty established character at this point, I'd have to disagree with any attempt at giving him a command grab, no matter how much it makes sense balance-wise. Because even though a certain change may indeed improve balance, that doesn't mean any aesthetic-related problems it raises should be ignored.

Chie's DP loses against crossups on her wake up. It also loses pretty hard to jump cancels. If you ever feel like baiting a DP in a non-meaty situation, a jump cancelled 5A or 2B will win every time. When jump cancelling, use either neutral jumps or back jumps. Back jumps make punishing the DP incredibly easy, but since it forces you to actually block the DP, it allows for Chie to cancel into derp meteors. Neutral jumps make it so you can't really chase Chie for a punish, meaning you have to punish with a chain or sweep. Otherwise, Chie can just block or do another DP. On the bright side, I'm pretty sure neutral jumps avoid cancels into derp meteors. It's probably possible to air turn after a neutral jump cancel and then air dash to chase after Chie for a j.B punish, but I'm too lazy to check that right now.

It's not that I think Hakumen would be overpowering with that kind of thing, it's more for aesthetic reasons that I wouldn't like Hakumen to ever have a command grab. Like, since CT, when you first look at the guy's moves, the things that stand out, other than the counters, are the big ass sword attacks. Big, slow, with huge damage upon landing one. Though that image has been dumbed down a bit with CS, the fact that moves like 5C, j.2C, and 6C (especially 6C) still exist are proof enough for me that Hakumen is intended to be all about his big ass sword attacks. With this in mind, I would never expect a guy with these big ass sword attacks to have a command grab. A command grab would make a lot more sense for someone who is more focused on hand-to-hand combat, like Bang or Tager. A two-handed weapon user with emphasized, slow strikes does not seem like the kind of guy who would try to run up and grab someone by the collar for a headbutt. If this was some other kind of character, I'd be all for a command grab that costs meter or whatever just to fix his almost non-existent pressure. But because Hakumen is a pretty established character at this point, I'd have to disagree with any attempt at giving him a command grab, no matter how much it makes sense balance-wise. Regardless, your analysis for Hakumen's pressure is really good.

I think it has to do with move attributes, not hitboxes. Kishu has head and body invincibility, so it should beat out 5B/5C as well as other stuff like Gauntlet Hades. I'm not exactly sure though. I do remember in CS2 that sometimes Kishu would get beat by 5C, but that might have been because the invincibility was too short or whatever. That is one of the things that got buffed in CSEX right? I haven't been really playing CSEX so....

623AA beats everything. Unless it whiffs. You aren't exactly at an advantage if it gets blocked either....

4C sucks. 5B and 2B are what you should be using. And uh, plenty of Ragnas use 6B and/or Gauntlet Hades as overheads, so 2D isn't really a safe option for his blockstrings. Backdash is useful for getting around 5B and 5C. Haku 4C usually sucks but is ok after a backdash to "punish" a whiff 5B/5C. 4C still sucks. If you really want a long range poke in any other situation, I think it's worth it to spend 1 meter on Gurren. Just from looking at your post, you probably haven't fought any actual Ragnas. The matchup is really all about the neutral game. Hakumen can't just derp 4C/j.C against Ragna. 2B has more range against Ragna, but 5B also covers a bit of air space in case he IAD's, as well as being able to counter poke 5B/5C better. 3C is worth mentioning, though the extra range doesn't really help as much as it does against other characters. Just be wary of jump ins, as you will get punished for free. Edit: I forgot this was Ragna we're talking about. 3C can be whiff punished hard by Ragna 5B/5C, so be very wary with using it. For anti airs, I personally like j.A, but there are specific ranges and timings where 5A, 5B, or 6A work the best. You'll have to figure that out with experience. If you're timing is good, you can go for 6D instead, or if you're sense of time is godlike, you can mix it with 5D for the later air dashes. Also, Ragna 5A/6A beats most Haku air approaches, so just stay on the ground. If you're really ballsy, you can bait it with j.D. The risk/reward isn't in your favor though. On offense, be wary of the occasional DP. You can also do an instant overhead against Ragna by canceling a blocked point blank 5B into j.B > Tsubaki. Otherwise, just do any normal Hakumen mixup. On defense, just block. Counters are ass. If you're reactions are godlike, you can try 6D against overheads. This matchup basically hasn't changed at all since CT. And it looks like it won't change much in CP either. So learn it now, and you won't have to learn it again.

Labby players unite. :ballLB:

I think you'll have more success zoning with stuff like 5C, A Guillotine, 2AB, 5B, 2B, and j.B. 5D just doesn't have the range that 5C does, and off of 5C, you can get a safe mixup with 2AB or Guillotine. 5C as oki is also useful. His grab is very weak to crossups. IMO, his DP is far more scary. Back dashing is a good way to bait both out and punish with a dash 5A, or just 5B or 2AB if you're afraid you'll be too late. Watch out for Kanji's j.C when anti-airing. And always make sure you aren't doing the same thing to zone. If Kanji is wise, he will get in. Unless he's bad, then spam whatever works.

31 wins - 1 loss ggs nonetheless.

Hosting 5p room.

I don't know how air turn blocking works, but at the very least, you don't have to face the opponent to block a wake up DP. Air turn is also useful for creating space because pretty much every character's forward air dash is longer than their back air dash. So you can use air turn to forward air dash the other way to get away from the corner or something. If they try to chase you, you can air turn again and try to hit them. Back air dash also has a certain amount of invincibility frames on startup, so theoretically, you can use air turn to make your air dash approaches a little bit safer too. Hopping is usually only used to punish throw attempts and when you're paralyzed against Kanji.

gg all, lots of fun. Keep it up, and I might have to actually learn combos Best Game Ever.

Hosting 3 player room. Edit: 5 player room now.