Mucky

This thread has compelled me to question the true meaning of art.

what about me

That video just made me very happy.

It's probably that. Same thing happened with CS1, everyone got fucked while Ragna basically stayed the same, he was high-tier in the beginning and fell down as time went on, etc. I just refuse to believe he is on the same level as Valkenhayn. Looking at the Valk forums he didn't get any major changes either, and in CS2 he was above Ragna if not the entire cast. Something doesn't add up about that.

Ragna S tier? How did that happen?

Is Tager's 5B a good move at neutral now? I see it being pressed a lot when nobody is around.

I doubt Tager will improve very much. Most of his changes are nice, but they don't really address his biggest issues, i.e. zoners. Chargeable B sledge may help since people won't know the exact timing on it anymore. Then again, the fastest possible B sledge is still 35+ frames which is easily stuffed by anything that isn't a projectile. Also the magnetism pull on AC doesn't seem to have changed, and it's always been awful at catching characters who can control their movement in the air (Hazama and Rachel). I bet he is still going to have bad match-ups against Hazama/Mu/Lambda/Rachel/etc.

2B has worse proration in CS2 which might affect untechable time on 2nd AC, j.D whiff > j.2C is hard to do online, etc. Pretty much no reason not to do j.C whiff > j.B but that's character-specific anyway I don't see a 2nd AC in that combo...

Well right now, you can actually spark in the corner and hit them as they fly over your head if you time it right. 5CxxAC will put them right back into the corner. I have no idea if it's an efficient usage of spark, but it looks stylish.

How does bang beat wakeup backdash? I think j.D might work but it feels shitty having to commit when every other character can mash 5A/2A.

Looks like they are really trying to get Tagers to stop throwing out random sledges and spark bolts.

Me and Osuna are chatting up a storm. And by chatting I mean yawning and mashing our keyboards.

I just realized that 3C xx spark bolt will work on grounded hits. Though that requires us to hold on to spark bolt. Air untechable 3C makes no sense to me... It's like they're trying to turn us into Ragna or something.

I hope 3C xx AC will work. Otherwise they just killed one of Tager's best (imo) combo routes. The only other thing would be if 3C xx Sledge led into something.

What concerns me is that the level increase will give 5B the advantages previously exclusive to 2B, i.e. frame advantage, hitstun and damage. The difference in proration values is rather small and 5B flat out has more gatlings than 2B. Hitboxes I don't know about, but IIRC 5B already received a buff to its hitbox. I mean, a buff is a buff, but at the same time I wouldn't want to see another move losing its purpose in the process.

Honestly I hope they do more with his 5B, it's going to be really weird having two moves (2B/5B) that do the same exact thing.

Just tested it, 2952 damage and 44 heat

What? I meant reduce the damage they DO, not the damage they RECEIVE. That would be completely senseless.

Guard breaking is easy, but you kinda have to go out of your way for it. Every time you jump in on someone with j.B you follow up with 2B > 2C > 3C. Bam, 2 primers gone. Full screen spark bolts contribute to guard breaking too. Green bursts make it even easier, they're like a cue for Tager to drop his mix-up game and go for the guard break. I would've liked negative penalty better if it reduced your damage instead of making you take more damage. If you're able to run away from someone to the point of getting negative penalty, most likely you'll be able to keep running away for as long as you want. The point is to catch the other guy doing something stupid/risky to try to catch you. All negative penalty does is increase that guy's damage if he gets in. But that's the whole problem; he hasn't been able to get in, so how is negative penalty supposed to change that? And of course, as soon as you land a hit and confirm it into a combo, the penalty goes away. If it reduced your damage, not only would the advantage you were trying to get be diminished (free combo for laming someone out and forcing them to chase you), it also wouldn't go away if the other guy hit you, because that doesn't count as an aggressive action on your part. The way it works now, you never feel any penalty as long as you don't get hit.

You mean at the start of the round? Most Tsubakis start off by air dashing backwards, or 5Bing (9 frame poke that is jump cancelable and +1 on block WHAT DA FREAK) and then air dashing backwards, so Tager has to advance to stop her from charging. If she just immediately starts holding down 2D I suppose you could punch her in the face for that.

A few things I'd like to mention: At round start, there's nothing you can do to stop Tsubaki from charging. You can walk forward/super jump C to force her to back up, but since she isn't magnetized you can't really threaten her. To make matters worse, you don't have the same luxury as her. If you choose to VTC, don't hold it for too long or else you'll leave yourself open to getting CH'd by shield bash. And that shit sucks. As a general rule, release VTC before Tsubaki is fully charged. Non-charged 22D is +3 on block. Don't get baited. AC, walk forward, 6C xx AC works at midscreen. The second AC needs to be slightly delayed. Fully charged 22D has enough range that Tager only has 3 ways of beating one that is properly spaced: 1. 5C or spark bolt 2. Jump 3. Backdash Of these three options, backdashing in my opinion is the most reliable. 22D takes 33 frames (roughly half a second) to become unblockable and it will release automatically, so the only factor is your own timing. Learn that and you can avoid it consistently. 5C can work on occasion, just keep in mind that she doesn't always have to wait for it to become unblockable to release it; if she feels you might try to mash out she can release it early to get a CH. I think jumping is the worst option because Tager's jump is slow and his hitbox is huge. I've been sliced at the ankles too many times to consider it a good option. Situations where you'll have to deal with 22D: A. If you're blocking a lot and Tsubaki is getting some distance from you B. On your wake up C. Rarely, she might run straight up to you and do it Oh, and if she goes for it while magnetized, you can laugh heartily and collect your 360/720. As others have pointed out, nothing can beat her 623D and she can stay safe even if you block or backdash it. Getting hit by it will lead to over 3k damage (thanks a lot, arcsys). You just have to be patient and let her spend the fake meter. Your goal for this entire matchup is to catch Tsubaki when she has no fake meter. If you happen to block a 623D and you have 50 heat, that is the perfect time to CA her. She'll then be forced to wake up with no safe options left. Also, Tsubaki can RC the spirit bomb and go for an unblockable while you're stuck in blockstun. For these reasons, you should always try to keep 50 heat handy for a CA. If you normally use it for RCs and MTWs, then you need to make an exception for this matchup. In general, you don't want to stand still. Even if you're doing nothing but walking back and forth, it can scare the Tsubaki into not charging. Her shield bash can give her frame advantage if spaced a certain way, which is all the more reason to keep moving and frustrate that spacing of hers. Walking forward is especially scary when you're holding onto your spark bolt. Try to refrain from jumping a lot because her anti-air is retarded. And that's it from me.

I've noticed ever since CS2 I've had to step to land it on Tager. Even in training mode, I can't get it to land unless I step.

You could be right. I'll need some time to think about this. I feel ID wouldn't bother me so much if Ragna weren't rewarded so god damn much just for landing one. I'm telling you man, no other DP is as irritating to deal with, or as braindead in its usage. It CS1 it gave good damage, oki and it usually pushed me into the corner. 50 heat also completely removes any risk it has whatsoever, and he even gets a free pressure string for it. Well, it's probably not as good in CS2, although it might still be annoying if he gets a wallbounce. There's also the fact that blocking one is incredibly rewarding. It's such an easy way to get 5k damage that I always want to try to block it. Anyway, it's surprisingly hard to find a good Ragna to consistently play with, so all I can do is talk about it. This is all I have to say about netplay Ragnas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA3OO3O_UiE

Hooray, feedback! So what do you mean by bad combo choices? I don't think I even got to do a proper combo that entire match. What I do know about comboing Ragna is that: 1) GF is always a bad idea because he can just DP, 2) sending him back to full/mid screen seems to work out better than going for a knockdown. That's why I did A sledge > followup when I got a 360B on him. As for the random jumps and backdashes... I don't know. I'll jump and backdash all the time like that, and then I watch a replay of myself doing it I can't even understand why the fuck I'm doing it. They're just that random. On 5B>6D, yes I could backdash that, but (oh god I'm playing that game) that's hindsight. In a replay I know everything that will happen, but in an actual game I have to look out for 2B which will wreck backdash. I do try to backdash after stuff like 2C because it's common for Ragnas to go for HF or GH at that point and lows aren't as big of a threat. If you're talking about backdashing the 6D on reaction, then fuck it, I can't react to stuff like that. That sums up how I feel about this matchup. I can go on ranked, troll random Ragnas that use shit like Belial Edge for approaching, then one like this will come along and I'm like, what the fuck man. Every time I think I understand the matchup, I'll get my shit wrecked and realize I know nothing. Tourney nerves probably didn't help, but it's not like I can get a good read anyway. There have been times where I'll score a knockdown on a Ragna who has 100 heat, anticipate a DP, and eat a green throw instead. Just the threat of being hit by his DP makes me second guess my mixup and pressure. I seriously hate this matchup. There are no words for it, only rage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB6S_jUNZJg Well I played like absolute garbage this game, but I might as well post it and see what everyone has to say about it. This isn't even my recording, lol.