bakahyl

I fought against some decent Tao's and i noticed these things Patiently barrier block her attacks and don't mash mindlessly or you will surely get countered by her. Lucklily most of her standing low combo's do little damage. Also Mu can't safely zone against her, because of her speed. Her crawl is still annoying, but just like makoto's slide you can hit her with 2a now. i think that Furu no tsurugi can miss her now when crawling (unlike cs1)

I avoid to jump in on him, because his wolf form is difficult to hit from the air and the wolf has a great anti-air that leads to a 3k+ combo. 236a might work sometimes to keep him away, but if you are too predictable he is able to avoid it with a good timed wolf air dash cancel and hop over it.

I was wondering who is the worst match up for Tager? Mu, Lambda , Carl , Arakune or someone else? edit: maybe hazama is also quite annoying for Tager.

what do you by that? the lambda's that i played were using crescent as a wannabe mixup / anti-wake up tool against my mu at mid range. I can't punish that with 5a or were you thinking of a different scenario?

be sure not to get hit by 4d when using arrows to block 5d or 6d

The things that bother me are: her 5b is probably better poke than jin's 5b or 5c her shield charge moves are generally safe on block when spaced well and on hit she has a very good anti air , so you cant reckless jump on her without barrier blocking or fake out using an ice sword

The hazama's that i have played seemed to have lot's of problems against Mu's corner pressure, so i try to play mu slightly more aggressive in CS2 than in CS1. But jumping alot got me killed some times, because i think Mu has a weak air to ground approach and hazama has a few fairly decent anti-airs.

exploding the stones seems to work very well against the low mobile tager, if he sledges through it you get him with 5c

Maybe a few challenges are the same for some characters, but still most of the challenges are different and better than the psp version.

Sledge is not completely invincible for projectiles i think it was on 3f till 11f. a right timed seed will disrupt a sledge. Mu's c normals are either -x on block and have an average startup. You will eat a 360. and the 7-3 part was said by synthesis, so my bad.

-Steins have a setup delay before they can be fired, due to the lack of block stun on the lasers, you can move forward unlike mu when you keep getting stuck by her swords. - same goes for lambda swords, she can cancel her 5d into 214a and it will beat sledge depending on your timing and distance. Both mu and lambda have a dp , but lambda's can be sledged but it's more rewarding. She has less jump cancable moves unlike nu or mu, but she is not completly defeated by sledges. You said Tager's reaction and yomi needs to be godlike to get close to mu, her steins are not that easy to setup perfectly to keep tager aways. You actually need to be on the ground to start anything damaging. Even in your own video against heroic legacy, you are still hit by lot's things that he threw at you. There is no doubt that you can keep tagers away for a while, but just like in ct tagers needs to be very patient. Because the steins on itself are not the biggest danger. And when you need to combo there is always a chance of an instant block 720. Or that other vid on your own topic http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?10300-Mu-12-Critique-and-Self-Improvement-Thread&p=796055&viewfull=1#post796055 That was a great display of keeping Tager away, but a good timed sledge or superjumped barrierguard can get through no matter how good you place it. One of the reasons is the 0 blockstun on the lasers that you can superjump or use sledge immediately after blocking. And i still miss the advantage that mu has over lambda to call it 7-3. Their a and b normals are almost the same and lambda's c normals are better than mu when it comes to active frames and start up. And i have cleared my points on their drives. #edit even in CT the matchup nu vs tager was 7-3. And she could jump cancel almost all of her swords back then and tager was more garbage compared to now. So I wouldn't say that the matchup against tager with mu is 7-3 in any way.

Stein's are less usefull at doing damage than swords because they hardly combo into something. Furthermore some of her act parsers can be used to compensate her bad sword placements. Normal lasers have virtually no blockstun, meaning you can block and still slowly move closer without using sledge. Your main source of damage should not be the steins unlike lambda with her swords.

I never said you can't guard break him, but he has 10 primers so that means that you will break his guard once or twice in a match. But lambda does a better job at that than mu, except if you include some 236d laser trap with SoD. But still ,breaking his guard will often go wrong if you broke tager with a charged stein. I have seen it happen many times when the leftover hits from the laser will ruin your breaking advantage. I think that lambda does a much better job at keeping away Tager and her matchup is considered 6,5-3,5 in her favor. The only thing lambda doesn't have that's better than mu is a physical dp.

Even if you are not combo'ed from it you will be eiter magnetized or be hit and bounched towards tager while being magnetized. Both cases are bad, latter being much worse. Being magnetized will limit your stein spamming spree, his damage close is higher than yours and the only thing you have is a dp , which can be baited and it doesn't lead into any worthwhile combo. Lasers are imo not zoning tools against a decent Tager, because of it's many flaws. @synthesis, can you explain why this matchup is in such big favor for mu, i rather think it's 5.5-4.5 or 6-4 in mu's favor.

if claim that mu-12 is never open and everything she does ( including her charged lasers)is "safe" against Tager , then this match up is atleast 7-3 in mu's favor, which is clearly not the case. You are clearly underestimating tager's options, his high hp and primers agains mu. Her charged up lasers do leave her quite open, because by charging it increases your recovery time and it's very noticable which steins are charged because of her longer summoning animation. Furthermore charged lasers by itself doesn't achieve much. He still has 10 primers and if you break his last primer with the charged up lasers, he will immediadly recover from his stun animation by the left over 2 hits from the charged up laser. And then you will need to break his 10 primers again. You claim start jumping and throw out steins even when he has a sparkbolt, well how do you dodge a spark when landing. Spark bolt still goes through any kind of lasers, so you will get hit by it. Even on a trade (incase of of 236d laser), you are still magnetized.

The charge lasers are the problem when he has a sparkbolt,you will not likely going to use that because of it's extra delay. It's almost a free sparkbolt punish when you charge it. Not to mention, Tager has 10 primers, breaking one primer is hardly a problem for him and if you use the charged laser too often, he will sledge through it. Besides, do you actually think that you will never get hit by a sparkbolt (meaning not even blocking it, but dodging every time) by having a perfect prediction when he is going to use it? I doubt that. Furthermore Tagers will not throw out those bolts randomly, they will use it on a time when you are open or almost open, you will not be able to dodge that.

The threat when tager has a sparkbolt will limit your normal keep away game. One sparkbolt per guess, and he gets a spark bolt every 25 or so seconds (even faster if he charges, which can occur because it has a guard point when using it to block a laser or 2). That's like 3 (or more) guesses per round and 1 wrong guess will likely turn the round into his favor. You will not be able to predict and super jump the sparkbolt all the time, so you will get magnetized by it by blocking it . Like i have said you will not be getting an upperhand when keeping Tager away, the lasers from the steins hardly do any damage, have 0 blockstun and you will risk getting magnetized by sparkbolt or something else somehow.

I doubt that any Mu would normally start a combo with 3c into 2b 6a because of it's start up and being unsafe on block (unless you used a slided 2b when dashing into 3c). Any other bnb combo with 5b or 5c into 3c will not combo into 6a, because of it's range. And the *insert starter* 3c 2b 5c combo's are more practical bnb's and not the "more damaging but more situational 3c 6a etc. " variants. *edit the 2c 6c combo's actually have more range than her 3c 2b combo's. With her added 2c 6c working on non grounded targets she can combo from 5b or 2b into 5c 2c 6c etc. Just as practical but less damaging, but it still works for stein setups. Mu can break primers very fast with her charged lasers from her D's , exploding steins and sword of decimation (1-3 primers depending on charge level ) The only practical things that they killed off are her damage, one of her easiest way into her corner loop and her slide 2b tricks because the opponent is launched lower.

Neither do you have to fear his 360 or 720 if you are not near him, but you said that you are getting killed by a 360 spammer. Thus meaning that you were close. Besides you don't do any significant damage if you are trying to keep tager away with steins. (exception if he get's hit by a 214d somehow, which is not likely) If you are spamming steins on Tager, he will get his spark bolt.

Disagreeing on that, she has lost one of her most important bnb in exchange for a possibly new one with 2c 6c. Combined with the no proration on guard break, she can do very nice damage.

Eventually he will start using colliders to grab you out of the air.

He is only out for a few weeks.

The lasers from her normal D's can be stopped if they are not launched before she get's hit or blocks . Her 236D on the other hand will still travel through all your steins, but it has an average start up, so she can be hit out of it. Can't deny that It does low damage, can only block 1 hit (incase of a clash) and it can barely be combo'ed into something (only in the corner on CH or rapid , but atleast it let's you set up some steins. She has exactly the same 6a as lambda as AA. Her 2c is not that much different from lambda's besides it's 1 hit and it has a bigger hitbox. Her C's (except 3c) doesn't come out that fast and her a and b pokes are pretty much the same as lambda's She can break primers decently. Her charged D's or 214d migh work and a fully charged 63214c can break 3 brimers and it can be achieved if you are stuck in her laser setup. Overall, i don't think she is as broken as nu was.

Hazama related question: Why is is hazama's matchup against mu more in his favor than rachel? Mu can't setup steins recklessly (she might be able to set up a few steins because they can be jump cancelled), but her normals and damage are still better than Rachel's. Mu actually has a dp to escape pressure sometimes, unlike rachel who only has a guard point cat chair.

Actually the list that St1ckBuG posted says that Mu is a middle tier character. Which I think that's alright. Can anyone explain why the matchup with Arakune against mu is slightly worse than lambda? Besides the fact that you can spam the lasers more easily, lasers do little damage and don't lead into decent combo's unlike lambda's swords.