Errol

10 seconds for 0-4 really isn't an improvement because 0-2 slowed down greatly. You can use wind a lot right now if you're willing to stay on low wind, which is reasonable for a lot of matchups.. It's really not good vs Nu, but more normal matchups it is reasonable. I knew george looked worse but I hadn't pinned down exactly what it was. Knew it looked shorter, but I see, 6 hits instead of 8. Does he activate faster too? I dunno, it looks worse. Delay tech > backdash seems like it might dodge george.. People did find some windless combo routes but I don't think that matters that much... Neutral, pressure, oki tools are fucked up.

When you look at the video, take note of when izayoi stops rising in the air. That's when it was blocked.

I believe 22B and 22D are both 30 frames, and they both hit crouchers on 30 frames too. When SKD tries to jump out of it in pressure, it gets blocked on frame 30.

I'll post some changes. Changes are very bad this time around. Ivy is nerfed. you can't use 2D repeatedly to do damage anymore, and 1 D with it does about the same damage as a 5b. Wind regen is nerfed. 10 seconds to regen from 0 to 4. But, that's from 0 to 4. regen from 0 to 2 is much slower than in CPE. 7 seconds to go from 0 to 2 wind. Pumpkin still gone. J2C is an overhead. without wind, J2C>5a does connect on crouch, but there is a gap if they block it. 6A floats without wind, but barely. 6a>4b does not work - they'll touch the ground and tech first. 5CC>5A still doesn't work. 236C is reverted to CP1, doesn't go full screen. 5C, Iris are still fast like in CPE. 5C is slow again. 5B/2B level raised? 5C connects. all around, less float? lvl 2 j2C > 236B> 3C didn't connect, but 5B did. likely can get 3c to connect. 3C/6A are reverted to CP1 status. JC does not float with 5D wind. The lotus is unchanged from the last loketest , overall unchanged - 7 count of effect (bat affecting wind) The lotus that is left is the garbage one we didn't use, not the one we did use. The one that breaks all your combos. suspected that 236B/C untech time is nerfed. JAB>5CC>8D>5B6A236A>6a4B>5CC works, but does not work if you did 5B5CC at the beginning. Dahlia up until super flash is the same, but after the super flash, stuff comes out from behind/above at an angle. charge moves, like hells fang can hit you on reaction. worst case scenario, someone like terumi might be able to run up and grab for free. N-O says it, and ivy are trash to never be used. 6B has spin-down effect on CH, but dash 5B would not connect. maybe it would on a perfect 0f dash 5b.

mukyu is mukyu https://twitter.com/kuro_heartwork

I updated some of the frame data on the wiki with updated info. Part of it is difficult though, it seems strange to me to partially update data. For example, could update the static difference on 4b to -2, but it makes no sense with the active and recovery frames. The truth is we don't know what the active and recovery frames are, but we could easily figure out the total frames. So it seems like things like 6A, and 4B, should probably be updated in some way to accurately indicate their total duration, static difference, and startup. Active and recovery frames maybe need to be flagged to indicate they're old, or, just removed.

~6C>JC>5C(w)C ~6BD>3C>BBL>stuff

What is a situation where you use gravity in neutral? I mean, excluding gravity oki, or canceling into gravity from a blocked normal or drive? What I'm asking is, what's a specific situation you would use it and why would you use it. For instance, is there a specific situation in neutral where you can basically remove the 50/50 game of 5d/6d vs jump/staying on ground by using gravity? In other words you can't stop them from jumping with 5D, so if you use a drive it's a guess.

Pretty sure 4B's active frames were reduced, too. it's possible to backstep through it with tsubaki - that shouldn't be possible if it still had 7 active frames, since tsubaki's backstep only has 5 frames of invuln.

I double checked this. 5B>4B, trade with tsubaki's 2c (13 frames). and 6a>4B trades with tsubaki's 5B (10 frames). 5b blockstun is 13 and 6a blockstun is 16 so 4B startup is 26.

Proration and Damage is here, I did this the first month of arcade release. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yNT6hw1rC9SWDevNB2iNFy6EgWOjE0pfO_i0Jy1wuzw/edit#gid=0 Yeah, I forgot it's extremely difficult to differentiate between active frames and recovery frames. The simplest thing I can think of to do any testing is to make use of tech options to do calculations. for example, doing 3c>pumpkin>4b and seeing how much of a gap after teching there is. then some other tweaks, like removing emergency teching and doing neutral tech, using various backdashes with diff invulns to see what gets hit. It's something i Might do for 4b but only 4b.

How hard would it be to get each frame of 4B? like save each frame until returned to neutral, maybe end up with something like during frames 1-3 it is this, then 4-5 it's that etc. And get total duration the same way? If we had total duration we could get # of active and # of recovery I think.

if the startup hasn't changed, maybe it lost active frames.

that mostly matches what I know, except I thought 4B is faster than 26 frames now? Wasn't it 26 frames last game? I was thinking 25 or 24. but the way I test these things is by seeing how large the gap. IIRC 6A>4B would have a 10 frame gap if 4B is 26 frames of startup, since 6A is 16 frames of blockstun.. I think. that might be off. so a 10 frame move like tsubaki 5B would trade. I am surprised that CT is improved. Thank you Tari.

There's also a problem with matchups when versions change. I went over to the rachel forums the other day to find that all of the threads were deleted and replaced with CPEX threads. Obviously, things change, but this is really a waste. Matchups mostly haven't changed and good information isn't accessible anymore. Something I've thought about for a long time is that we could have 'VS' Threads. Pretty much every single person can take advantage of information like, IB JIn's 6B and press 5a.

It's the exact same thing as 22B is currently. j214X also retains the charge cancel it has on landing.

Well, they changed 4d back to slower startup like it was before, they increased recovery on gravity, and it sounds like the new move isn't as good as spike chaser for just handling approaches. Also the recovery on air drives will make it punishing to whiff em. so autopilot should be greatly reduced. These changes aren't even about tier list rankings IMO. They need a different way to make her strong than the way she is strong in CP. But it's clearly work in progress, apparently not even possible to follow up corner throws without spike chaser

Info is here

so to reiterate what is in there, if you have ivy set on someone and you use 2d, you'll do a raw 1000 damage per wind you use, instantly. Against characters you don't need any kind of oki tool against, you can just drop ivy at the end of a combo in the corner. if you spend 4 wind trying to open them with IOH and they just block.. They'll have taken 4000 damage. if your IOH combo does 1500 damage.. and you opened them up on the first IOH, you'll have done 2500 damage before the combo even started.

gotcha. I hadn't seen that info but quite possible then. Sounds like reversal OD is gonna be even more nuts.

non-interactive.. that's a way to put it, I guess.

Updated errolnote. see there

i think he's assuming that the special exceed accel movie in OD is invuln. I don't know if that is true.

updates to errolnote

no info on that. it probably does though.