Errol

it's 'Tachikawa's Konan', which is Kuresu

I don't know. I can't get in. Then I saw cookie and I was.. omg maybe I can play Cookie?! But no Guess it's just Moy and Toan for me. Nothing wrong with that...

actually I can't get into your room. oh well.

invite me muck

i wonder if there's a gap between 5bb and 2b this time, lol.

yo zeron you are pretty good.... but star is really good.

When you can get decent oki with comet cannon I don't think I'd go for resets much. Plus when I go for resets usually it's because I can't get much more damage and the opponent is still on the ground (won't be able to tech). That's Tsubaki. Makoto doesn't get much dmg till she puts them in a techable state and gets a lot of damage after that so it's not something I would think of doing. I dunno what the possibilities could be, I don't feel potential so I don't wonder why makoto players aren't doing it tho

correction. 5a lvl 0->lvl 1 would make it +/- 0, as it is -2 right now.

where would you do a reset?

Ok. So I think everything works as it is expected to work. 5a>2c CS2: doesn't work. CSEX: doesn't work. CP: does work. Note that 2a>2c works in CS2 because 2a's untech time is 14. Note that in most cases a level 0 attack has 12 untech time, and a level 1 attack has 14 untech time. I wonder if 5a is +1 in CP? Or if they increased the attack level and decreased the recovery, or decreased the active frames. Also - could be universal change that increases the untech time of level 0 attacks. 5b>3c. This does work in CSEX, CS2, and CP. 5bb>3c Doesn't work in CP. Conclusion: 5bb attack level reduced to 2. If it were because of 3c being slower, 5b>3c wouldn't connect, unless 5b had a level of 4 now, which seems unlikely. Charge cancels: Same in CS2 as in CSEX, but if anything they're worse in CSEX than in CS2, though maybe relatively that's not the case. The amount of charge between games is equal cause the CSEX charge cancels were just retaining the charge rate of CS2 but only for charge cancels. Pokes after a charge cancel are all around better in CS2 (5b, 2a). Both were slowed so that makes it harder to use charge cancels. Also the 5c level decrease from 4 to 3 in CSEX. But lots of stuff is worse in CSEX so charge cancels see more use.

I figure the 5b cancel time of 17f only applies to 5bb. But in that case 5b>3c should still connect if 5bb does. afterall, 5b>2b is a tight gatling, whereas 5b.5bb is not. and 5bb is faster than 2b.

well, I guess I might test some things in cs2 later today. 5a>5b is gapless? 5a>2c air hit combos Also I can't exactly remember but weren't charge cancels improved a lot in EX? I can't remember any details though. Not that I particularly need to test that. For csex testing, maybe I will test charge cancels by seeing what moves can hit tsubaki out of charge cancel> 5a from various moves.

I also wonder if 5a>5b had a gap in CS2. 5a>5c has no gap in CSEX, and 5c is 8 frames. 5a>5b in CS2? 5b in cs2 was 9 frames. so is there a gap or not?

that does work in CSEX too but it's tight. dunno if it is different in CP. 2c has a special hitstun value.

I wasn't sure, did untechable time take effect on grounded opponents? I kind of thought standing hitstun was just based on the attack level of the move. if untech is involved then that could be something. but I don't know? For one thing, does 5a>2c really connect in CS2 on an air hit? This is what I read on jbbs, but our frame data shows 5a as having 12 untech time. 2c has a 13 f startup..

Some of this is based on what I've read from jbbs. but. As I recall, 5b>3c does not work on crouching in CSEX, and 5bb>3c does. This makes me think 5b>5bb won't have a gap. the 5a>2c thing makes me think that 5a>5b might not have a gap. But I really can't say. It also is worth mentioning that special cancels work the same way - that is, on crouching, 5c>236c connects, but 5b>236c does not connect IIRC. There is something different about these, that causes one to work and not the other. 5b and 5c both have an attack level of 3. if it was as simple as, you can cancel into 236C on the first active frame, it wouldn't be that way. Do we have any reason to believe that charge cancels behave differently from gatling cancels or special cancels?

there are 2 changes in CP I'm very interested in. 1. 5a (air hit)> 2c connects in CP. it connects in CS2. it does not connect in CSEX. 5a and 2c have identical frame data in CS2 and CSEX. 2. crouching, 5bb>3c works in CSEX. in CP, 5b>3c works, and 5bb>3c does not work. I'm not really sure what the theoretical explanation for this is. I feel like it's that the cancel point on these moves is now earlier. But I also remember discussion about how frame difference on charge cancels only depends on the attack level of the move, which would seem to be wrong if that's the case. One way or another, It seems to me like 5a>5b might not have a gap anymore, and 5b>5bb certainly doesn't

Agito is massive + on block.

agito being able to crossup isn't even half of what makes that move so good..

but her reversals are, and she has gaps in all of her blockstrings without even ib'ing.

you main platinum, remember.

in that case Lambda is dumb because of having a 17 frame overhead for 4k dmg and having 10 different forms of effective anti-air

I want to play mucky. I'm going to get you back for this insult in CP.

That's not really true. Correct use of charge is one of the distinguishing factors of good players from bad players.

I ain't apologizing to no hakumen trash. I don't know what to think of toan saying tsubaki is a dumb character is all.