Guardian

Whenever I play a game for the first time, the first thing I do is look at the character moves (specials, normals, etc). I will usually go through 75-85% of the cast within the first week of playing. After that, I will play WHOEVER I FIND THE MOST FUN. I cannot stress this point enough. Playing and winning is fun, but if you're not having fun using the character, you won't be motivated to get better. After I find the fun character, I work on combos. I think there are two schools of thought on this. A friend of mine thought it was better to learn frame traps and mixups first, then combos. I prefer to learn combos. Learning combos and optimizing them gives you many advantages. You get to see what your big damage starters are, how your character's combo mechanics work, how practical the combos will be to do in the heat of a match, and what the system mechanics allow (which will USUALLY be consistent throughout the cast). Your execution in the game will increase from this, and you'll get muscle memory for those tricky situational combos. From there, you can spread into learning setups for your big damage starters, situational combos, and oki setups. It's one thing to have 1000 tricks and get 10% dmg per trick, but it's an entirely different game when you hit someone for 40-50% of their life with one simple starter. That gives your opponent a degree of fear because they know that when you hit them, IT WILL HURT. After I've figured out combos (which is a constantly evolving process; NEVER stop practicing and optimizing combos), I'll work on poke spacing and mix ups. The first thing I now look for, especially in anime games, is a fuzzy guard or instant overhead. Other than it being one of the best mix ups in fighting game history that NO ONE ON THE PLANET can block consistently, it gives you a tool for surprising an opponent. Every character has combos off of lows, so that is pretty much inconsequential. If I find one, I'll see how practical it is (see valk). If not practical (and this pretty much goes for most mixups), then I'll see if there are situations I can set up that make it practical. Frame traps are going the way of the dodo nowadays, so I tend to find those by experience or when frame data drops. Lastly, I'll find a training partner. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL. YOU CAN'T GET BETTER WITHOUT ONE. When I say training partner, I mean more than just someone to play matches with. I mean someone you can try stuff out with, practice strats, etc. I found out 2 weeks after valk was released in CS1 that everyone's 2/5A destroys wolf. This is because me and a friend traded ideas, and tested out various mixups. You can do this now with the recording feature in BB, but this feature may not always be present in all fighting game practice modes. Things like this can help you find out if something is legit or not, if a combo can be teched, if your tech trap setup is legit, etc. From this point I'll consider myself adequately versed in the character and go to play matches, usually with a high degree of success. If approached with a person who isn't that great at FGs, I'll get them to work on beginner mechanics and aspects (walking, dashing, jumping, BLOCKING, etc). After that, try normals and specials. See how comfortable they are with very basic shit before you move on to simple combos and strats. Things like frame traps, spacing, and match up specific moves can be overwhelming for someone new to FGs. Also, this is the group that you don't want to beat the shit out of when they first start. You don't want them to quit within the first few days. Play to their level a bit, encourage them, and LET THEM KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING WRONG. That should be something that happens at any level, but with new people its even more essential. I wish I could teach a class on fighting game theory. It'd be really interesting from any point of view.

Oh no dude, I TOTALLY understand what you're saying. I understand more than you know, because I've been there. When I first started playing games, I started with Tekken, and I trained with the best in the country at the time. I got beat more times that summer than I can ever remember. But when I went back to Tally for school, I was on the same level as everyone else. You have to learn to control your anger and direct your focus (something I'm STILL learning to do). Execution problems can be fixed in practice mode. Being good at making adjustments doesn't happen overnight, but it does, and will happen the more comfortable you get with high level play and using your character. That's why I have to tell Romey, Sans and everyone else to not watch me in P-mode, b/c I'll sit there and work on my execution and other shit for HOURS. Practice mode is your friend. Know it, learn it, love it.

I'm sorry dude but Romey is right. When you fight players closer to your level, you may win more, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're improving. You improved because you fought all those other players who were better than you. When you went back to fight those people you consider to be "on your level", you had actually already surpassed them, and it allowed you to win more. Playing people who are better than you offers nothing but benefits. You can find those errors in your playstyle like you mentioned, AND get to fix them at the same time. When you fix an error in your playstyle, it's called "making an adjustment". Making on the fly adjustments are cornerstone to every top tier player's playstyle. If someone is blowing you up constantly, you don't have many good habits. You have bad habits. The player is blowing you up by differences in skill level, and exploiting your weaknesses (bad habits). When you fight lower level players, many things that may seem to be "good habits" actually aren't, because the lesser player doesn't know how to counter what you're doing, punish you for doing unsafe strings, etc. I know a lot of this will probably be hard to swallow because you haven't been playing long enough, but I assure you, and I told you this before, if you would come out to hook ups and play us more often, the amount of times you get blown up will decrease dramatically.

#OLDMANSWAG@100%: This is the problem with everyone getting into games post SF4. Nearly everything that came out before SF4 had actual execution requirements, and minimal to non-existant comeback factors. You couldn't just pick up a character and be good with them in a week. You actually had to guess, learn match ups, and not require crutches to win. If you got your ass beat, YOU GOT YOUR ASS BEAT. But that's how you learned the game. That's how you got better. That's how execution shot through the roof. Jwong, clockwork, daigo, and every other top player you can think of did not become that way overnight. They sustained over 100,000 ass beatings, and kept right on moving, getting better. Today's competitive gamer has been spoiled rotten. GGAC won't get the proper revival it deserves here because 1)Americans are fucking lazy, 2)There is no comeback mechanic in the game. You have to THINK to win, 3)Like DC said, newbs will get pissed on the first month of the game's release, then instead of trying to learn match ups and characters properly, they'll just run to another game that allows them to mash buttons and win, and 4) AMERICANS ARE FUCKING LAZY. The games that come out nowadays all too often give rewards that the lesser player doesn't deserve. DC: GGAC is very accessible; DL is an excellent library of information related to that game, and Japan plays that game hardcore to this very day. It's training mode is arguably the best to date, and with online play people will get all the match up experience they need. If someone sucks at GG, it's most likely b/c they can't execute properly to play it, or they totally new to it. It's really a shame that more people won't play older, more execution intensive games (FUC, GGAC, 3s, MvC2, etc); playing those games will cause your execution in other games to shoot through the roof. If you can block Millia/Magneto, then you can block anything that has come out to date.

Not really; Mixup is there (marvel), but the GG scene in FL is all but dead. Trying to revive it a bit here in Tampa, but everyone is playing crapcom/BB atm. It won't matter b/c come summer, AC will be on PSN/Xbox Live ^^ So Miami is for sure gonna be at CEO de Mayo?

GGs to LK, Raiza, feux, and everyone else I played today

I got 2nd at FR in 2011 with mainly online match up xp. When I was in tally my main comp was Green Mario, and he only plays Ragna. Online play has its advantages and disadvantages for tourney play. To over-emphasize either would discredit online play. In BB, anyone can take a match off of anyone, regardless of skill level. Hell I got a fluke win on LK in a TOURNEY. Haven't been able to beat the guy since. In all honesty, the game has hella scrubby elements in it, but that's the nature of this new era of fighters we're in. Feux if you can get a bus to Tampa I'll cart you back and forth to CEO myself. Hell I could probably even give u half on the bus ticket. The internet is for porn anyway. I don't even know why we all come here.

GGs to everyone I played tonight. VERY BGs to lag.

That's the point ^^ Even still, it wouldn't make him better than Carl/Mu/Valk/Haku/Ragna/Arakune. IMO anyways

GGs to everyone I played today. It's so fun trying to block online. I end up making it a little game I play all by myself.

So after playing a crapton of matches vs a variety of characters and play styles, I can only conclude that Relius is a somewhat incomplete character. The purpose of this thread is of course, to make suggestions (reasonable ones) that will improve him. Not all of these should be combined, but the implementation of just one or two would make him a much better character. 1) Reduce the invuln frames and recovery of led ley by half. -This would allow for a quick get out of jail free card without being easily baited by 5As and 5Bs. It would still be vulnerable to throws, and if you do it at the wrong time you'd still get CH into a huge combo for free. 2)Give one of Ignis' normals complete superarmor. -His whole concept is tight frame traps, and making someone want to move. This would make mashers think twice, and keep people from running at him at certain angles. 3)Give him a command grab. -Nothing silly like Hazama or Tager, but just something to help open people up. This would help supplement his horrid mixup game. For balance purposes, make it prorate by 50%, or allow him to get no more than 2.5k damage off of it. This could also summon ignis if she isn't already out. 4)Reduce the recovery of ignis specials, or shorten the time between doing one ignis special into another. -This would aid with zoning, and increase combo potential. 5)A LEGIT ANTI-AIR. -Everyone in the cast has one except for him. 2C is mediocre at best, and 4D is dependent upon ignis being out, and doesn't cover the space in front of him. 5a and 6b are EXTREMELY situational. 6)Put gaps in the hits on Val Tus -To increase mix up potential 7)When comboing someone, reduce the amount of ignis meter used by half. The initial hit can cost 100%, but the subsequent hits will cost 50%. -this way, when you FINALLY hit someone after a mixup, you have a bit of meter to do more damage than just 1-2.9k midscreen w/o killing her. 8)Only put Ignis in blue recovery state when she is hit. -Just b/c you guess right on a relius grab, doesn't mean he should be punished for it. My personal choices would be 3,5 and 7. I'm always up for a good discussion, so if you think any of these changes alone, or together, would break him (when I say break I mean bumped to SS+ class) feel free to post up and say why. List changes of your own! Not that we'll probably get any of them, but we can dream right?

Fixed that for u

Some quick notes: -2B is of some use in this match up. It can safely poke from a distance. -You can't compete with Bang air to air without ignis. -Ignis is good at stopping random full screen nails -You have to guess if he corners you, but the same goes for him as well. -If you do punch super out of a string, he can do j.5D and get out for free. Trying to counter this is pretty difficult imo. Ground guardpoints can be grabbed on reaction. Punch super also beats his dash super, as he doesn't pass through ignis. -5A and j.A are super annoying in this match up. Don't try to contend too much with these moves, just get away and re-establish space -Your AA 2C is easily baited by nails and 2x dash. If ignis is out, use 4D instead. -His slide can beat most of your pokes, but it doesn't beat Led Ley. If they're whoring it to get in, led ley and punish. -The shadow unblockable works very well in this match up, as bang can't guard point through a simultaneous hi/low. Match up is difficult, but if you can block him somewhat consistently, it's definitely winnable. 5.5-4.5 Bang imo.

Friday night? I could be down for that, might even be able to find housing if my boy Andy is around. Let's keep everyone posted. Letting everyone know right now, it's gonna be LK vs the world if we get him up here, ft10 for everyone. THEN the tourney. Gotta give LK the FL workout plan :-D

LK what part of FL are you in? Pkazn is in Orlando Me/Romey are in Tampa Feux is in Miami Some Cary and a few others are in Jax but I'm not sure how often they play, romey is in Jax for the weekend Green mario lives in tally but he's currently in Korea atm. Let us know where u are. Hit me up on FB if u need more info

LK: I'm starting to believe that Rachel's mix up is either as good, if not better than Valk's, for several reasons: -Her IOH j.A is just as hard to see as wolf 5C~C+A (imo), as long as it's not telegraphed from 5B -Her mix up can be made safe with pumpkin, george, sword iris -She can block while doing this mix up to bait reversals, and gets equal if not more damage off of a wrong guess Thoughts on this? Maybe TD just has my head fucked up from all the matches we play, but I don't think this is a far-fetched idea.

When we try them, we have to pray that they don't move the entire time, unless you do the shadow unblockable, in which you have to pray they don't do a super/DP

Like trying to counter footsie with him in general? It's extremely difficult to out poke Ragna at neutral, especially with Relius. You can only block 6B/GH mixup so many times. People have been saying he has an avg mix up for years and that you can block everything on reaction, but I have yet to see ANYONE (including JP) do it consistently. Combine this fact with his insane neutral game, and you have a character that's going to just...well...press buttons and win. We're not even going to start on his defense w/ ID. That move shouldn't even be in the damn game.

GGs to Jason900, DinDrag, xkuro, HellK, Harakiri, Neo, psycho, and everyone else I played this weekend I need Tao/Lambda xp in the worst possible way.

In CS2 I used to be able to SOMEWHAT compete with Nineball. Now it's like i've never played the game before. I hate Ragna.

LK: How do I beat Ragna with Relius or Valkenhayn? I used to know in CS2, but I have NO IDEA how to fight this character in Ex. Is there anyway to keep him from doing whatever he wants?

GGs to HM, Nineball, and everyone else I've played over the past couple days Man I'm so free, I'm for profit.

I don't know what a tsundere is. But I'm old so that gives me an excuse. Kyle/Romey sorry I missed u guys yesterday, i didn't get back from orlando till 930pm. Fuck Orlando traffic. Seriously. FUCK THAT SHIT.

It's viable, but it's just an Instant overhead, not a true fuzzy. he does have a true fuzzy setup though, it's just not practical.

I got it romey, just let me know when you want to try it. As long as you finally come out and tell us you're bi.