Kiba

Yeah I read the explanation you gave on that. That could work too. Yeah, pretty much everyone can do that. The difference here is it's easier to catch players who super jump and air dash than it is to catch Valk. You could use like super jump j.AA against the air dashers, although you'll have to be quick about it. It's pretty much impossible to catch Valk using sj > 7D > w/e unless for some reason you use 623C (lol) before he wolfs out of the corner. The same applies to Hazama since he can send himself to the other side of the stage and you don't really want to play neutral against him. Not too sure about Rachel because I'm not sure her using wind to fly to the other side and throw lobelias down is effective for her, because you can just catch her again. Errol (or another Rachel) I'm sure may be able to shed more light on this if he feels like posting lol. It's up to them to decide whether jumping out, blocking, or mashing is the best option, and in the case where they don't try to jump out, it could work. You have options against all 3 of those anyway. Now, if you're you're playing against is a disruptor, then I wouldn't encourage the use of this. I don't use this against Mu-12 / Nu-13 and I think you guys know why. The neutral game against them is hard, so when it comes to pressure / mixup I'll be focusing more on using faster methods. You can opt to use the 5C > 5D > micro dash against players who are content in blocking, or some of the balanced type characters since there isn't a great fear if they return to neutral. I'm not saying you have to use it btw, I'm just giving a suggestion as to the type of varied pressure you can inflict at times, although not completely effective.

Yeah, it's pretty easy to IB. You''ll be putting yourself in the RPS game again really. With regards to using it for oki, I haven't thought about doing that, ever. I think you're better off with using the 22[D] > 6C > Delay 421A. You save charge.

I think stagger 2A catches jump outs, not completely certain on that. Regarding 421A > 236D, I'm real iffy about using that for pressure. All it does is guarantee you a 5A attack, although I'm not sure that's the same case on IB. I mean, you can condition your opponent into block so you can do other things like throw / command grab / 6A. The 5A timing may be a little hard and if you don't do it asap that leaves a gap for certain characters to backdash (Mu-12 / Nu-13) or DP. Using it from Teejay's perspective is somewhat understandable if you want to maintain pressure. I mean I was just thinking what the difference was between that and 6B > slight delay 22D, but like I said, the former is good against disruptors and maintaining pressure.

10/2 Techonopolis Kin Tager (VK) vs Ragna Nu-13 vs Kin Tager (VK)

Something like Kara throws: Deceptive range, easy to perform, and Tsubaki actually deals quite good damage from this with 1 charge. They're really effective. I cannot stress this enough. Unorthodox pressure: Stuff like, charge cancel pressure into IAD j.C, or you could do something like 5C > 5D, then micro dash 5C after 1.5 seconds to score counter hits (corner only). It doesn't work against those who are mashing after the 5C and there has to be some conditioning to it. It's good because you can see how the opponent reacts and act accordingly. This would really only apply to characters that can't get out of pressure such as, Valk. If a Tsubaki tried this tactic against me, I'd just super jump > 7D and wolf out of there. Using 2A stagger: 5A is alright but it's negative on block. When I rely on 5A I sometimes get mashed out of 5A > micro dash 5A, but I get CHs with 2A. 2A is 0 on block. Extended use of 2A may encourage players to mash, and you can catch the mashers. It's also good for setting up command grabs, throws, but I don't think its very effective for setting up 6A. I also think this is not very effective against Hakumen because of 2D. Use of 421D > 236D: Mainly useful against the disruptors but it doesn't help if you just keep throwing it out. You need to try and catch them with this when they have committed to something, such as when Rachel tries to use Lotus or frog, or when Nu is using spike chaser. Those are good opportunities to rack some damage and get in. There are also general things like combo optimisation. You don't need to use the hard stuff or the character specific nonsense. Some of Tsubaki's easier combos are actually quite damaging, like her throw combo with 1 charge that goes into 3.2k. Also punishment, if they whiff something big, you need to make them pay, and that won't work if you're getting less than 3k you know. Tsubaki's most damaging punish without resources is 3.8k, and remember I've made a list of them in the strategy guide. One big thing people can do is while playing online, save the replays and watch them back. Analyse them and see what gaps you can fill in your gameplay? Does your pressure need to be more solid? Do you need to use throws/command grabs more? Do you need to mix up your option from IAD j.C rather than going for IAD j.CC? (IAD j.C > throw/command grab/low/6A/j.CC) It's just using the simple stuff really. I don't think there is a need to overcomplicate things if you can use the simple stuff effectively.

Sure, although there are ways for characters to deal with it you know. 623C > j.214D is tight but punishable on block. 623C > j.236D can be dealt with by running underneath the fireball and punishing her on descent. The fact that she has the 1st option available means that she may be able to get away with at times, hence why sometimes if they try to punish Tsubaki late, she could probably just DP you again. Some characters don't even care about it because they may not have to really deal with it (mainly the disruptors).

Can probably put him in the balanced category then because he seems like another character you have to play passive aggressive against. His DP is going to shut you down most of the time, but you will have a little more opportunities to charge. Yeah, he is a hard hitter, but I believe delay techs work well against him? The thing about Kagura is that he generally needs to make a lot of commitments for his pressure. Only real worry is command grab but only when he's in 2A range otherwise it's not a viable option (due to range). Tsubaki isn't going to be able to deal with disruptors unless she develops a strong (or stronger) neutral game. In turn this may also make the aggressors back off or take caution whilst trying to get in (like against Rachel). Against all 3 categories, if gaining charge was much more scary (as many of you have said), the opponent's gameplan would change and it may not work really well for them to be entirely aggressive.

8/24 Shinjuku Sportsland Arc Revo Suzuki (HZ) vs Konan (TS) Momoiro (RC) vs Konan (TS) Ronitta (JI) vs Konan (TS) | There is an excerpt here Mabukapu (RE) vs Konan (TS) Konan (TS) vs Abarenja (MU)

Nothing else comes to mind except the occasional 236D. Maybe for certain other characters I can classify them in a 'balanced' category. They won't be as aggressive as the aggressors since they have some little tools of their own. Such characters like Jin, has 236A to use and has to balance pressuring you midscreen and returning to neutral if that doesn't work. The difference here is that some aggressors gain nothing by retreating. Jin can still 'pressure' by throwing his own projectiles. Before I continue, on a side note, some characters can be put into two categories. I think Bang can probably fit into both Aggressor and disrupter. With that aside, the same holds true to Izayoi, with her sonic sabres in neutral and her specials on block to help her gain stars. It's more harsh for Izayoi because her gameplan is slow, Tsubaki can use j.D to avoid sabres and can play lame if she wanted. Other characters I'd place in this category would be Bullet, Tsubaki and possbly Carl. With these matchups it's generally easier to obtain charge in neutral than it is against the other two categories. I'm unsure about Kagura, and I don't think either of the 3 categories effectively explain Hakumen's placement. So, Disrupters: Mu-12, Kokonoe, Nu-13, Bang, Hazama, Arakune, Litchi even, Rachel, Platinum, Relius, Amane? Aggressors: Azrael, Bang, Taokaka, Terumi, Valkenhayn Balanced: Jin, Noel, Makoto, Bullet, Tsubaki, Carl, Izayoi, Tager, Amane? This is just what I think. I think we can all agree that the disruptors hold the majority of really difficult matchups, whilst the majority of characters in the balanced category hold some of her easier matchups. Maybe applying this logic we could place Hakumen in the disruptor category, as a mental disruptor anyway (or maybe just have his own category lol). Kagura might be in balanced...I dunno.

Ah really? Thanks! I think it'll be safer for me to give a thorough rundown once I wake up tomorrow haha. A little tired right now and I want to avoid chatting crap lmfao. What I can say is Mu is definitely a disrupter. You have to play patient once she has Stein's Gate up or you're gonna lose pretty badly. Match start you'll want to rush her down to avoid this, but her C normals are problematic. You can charge, but you may have to face Stein's Gate. It's a gamble and you'll have to roll with the choice you make. I think throwing in a mixture of the two is great, so charging in short bursts then marking her down. With characters like Jin and Bullet, I think there may be some kind of middle ground for them you know? I feel Terumi is an aggressor. His speed really helps him out a lot against Tsubaki, and his 5D can be troublesome. The thing I really like about Tsubaki is that she's flexible. You don't have to charge in neutral sometimes since you're given several opportunities to charge after knockdowns even though you won't be able to do it as long. Remember you're still benefiting from charge cancels too. If we HAD to charge before starting our gameplan (like Izayoi maybe?), she'd be much worse than she is y'know.

Regarding the j.236A and 421A corner oki, the same holds true for Hakumen and Tager. You'll just get standard oki which you'll have to work with. Perhaps use > 22 > 5C > 2C > j.C > j.236A > j.214A and make them tech in the air. I have been doing this against characters which are difficult to deal with on their neutral tech and it's not bad at all. You can see Konan do this in some of his matches. Side note, > 22B(w) (on airbourne opponent) > 421A corner oki isn't effective against most of the cast. In fact I don't even think 421A is useful unless you use 22D > 6C > 421A. Now, against Azrael, if I had to choose out of using j.236A to gain charge and give Azrael a fireball, or charge in bursts and keep retreating playing another game, I'd choose the former. I can't emphasise how much charge is extremely important in this matchup. I've played some pretty good Azraels and I've found this method to be the most effective. By the time he has the fireball, you should already have some charge, and you need to make the decision whether to go on the offensive or play a little passive in the hope that he uses it and it whiffs, or is blocked. Like, you can avoid the j.236A, but then you don't seem to have a way to stop him getting in (remember gustaf is the main issue here). It's easier for him to move around.

Right so I figured than rather be complaining about the stuff struggles with or doesn't have, why don't we talk about something a little more positive? Tsubaki has a lot of tools which are good to use against any character, whether it's her command grab, making people mash with her charge cancel pressure and frame traps, or even her DP which is pretty much a nuisance for everyone because of the followup options. She may not be as strong as most other characters but she certainly has tools to contend with him, even if the matchup isn't in her favour. Speaking of matchups, it's been years and I feel that most of us have a pretty good understanding of Tsubaki's capabilities in her matchups. Why not go through a general matchup breakdown. The Disruptors. These characters generally have a gamplan which stop Tsubaki from doing what she does best. Bang hits harder than us, his pressure is difficult to deal with and his neutral with his nails disrupts Tsubaki's main gameplan (charging). Irresponsible use of the nails makes the matchup easier for us, but it can be rare to be in that situation unless you are seriously playing cat and mouse. Fireballs and psycho crusher can be useful but I feel like due to startup you'll get hit out of it most of the time. Don't really see anything that we have on top of Bang you know, he's just annoying lol. 6-4 probably? Kokonoe has too many tools to deal with most if not all Tsubaki's options in neutral. She ways good ways to stop you charging and cover her approach,she has ways to stuff your approach, and she has ways to stop you for going for the DP when you're on the defensive. Even if her mixup is a little mediocre outside of when her specials are in play, she can just push you out and do whatever she wants. Nu-13 and Relius have multiple ways to stop Tsubaki from charging and getting in even though her dash speed is quite good. Neutral is rough against Relius because the doll hurts our approach too. Relius on his own is still quite decent, since his normals and specials give him time to stall with his mixup to allow Ignis to recover and start all over again. With these type of characters you generally want to be because once they start rolling their dice it can be difficult to get around it. With Kokonoe and Nu-13 you will have some time to charge in small bursts, but with something like Bang or Hazama you have to be more cautious. These characters are some of Tsubaki's real bad matchups. The Aggresors What these characters want to do is to get in asap, but unlike the above you have tools of your own which can be pretty useful. Valkenhayn is another character like Kokonoe who has methods to stop approach (although not as solid), and his pressure/mixup is a pain to deal with, but you do have your DP and your fireballs to prove a nuisance for him. The DP is also a life saver mentally because Valk players often like to shy away from Tsubaki on her wakeup because of that option. Your normal pokes are pretty much useless here so you may have to rely on dash speed and gimmicky stuff. Some of this holds true for Taokaka too. Ragna is another. His normals have more priority than ours (particularly 5B in neutral) and his DP often makes us less aggressive with pressure. If he does get in he'll be a pain to get off. He also outdamages us, and his dash speed isn't too bad to get in onto us. With these it's about trying to use mainly the fireball to disrupt their approach but it may not be effective all the time. It's just about picking the right time to attack and not give them easy access in otherwise you'll be in a trouble of trouble. Persistent movement is also a necessity here. These matchups are also quite bad for Tsubaki You also have the matchups where you can take advantage of other characters. Tager is a culprit. His slow speed allows you to fully charge and use that to your advantage. Another is Azrael. Even though Azrael can outdamage us, the fireball still slows him down and gives you chances to charge. If you let Azrael get on top of you with no charge you'll gonna have a lot of difficulty. So overall Tsubaki isn't too bad. One of the things that let me down in particular are some of her normals y'know, whether they're slow or lack range. Her damage is understandable because the charge elevates her damage, and as I said she does have some stuff to really back her up. Fun, but requires a lot of work you know.

Yes, although as a general note it's a good idea to use the projectile in most matchups. Covers your approach, makes players move in ways which you can take advantage of (by jumping you can AA/grab) etc. I think it's even more effective against Makoto because there isn't much she can do about it and she has to make a choice between jumping and evading or blocking. She can counter with her own projectile but generally I don't think that's a good idea. Could leave her open for your IAD j.C.

No more news afaik guys. The game comes out in arcades October 9th so we'll have to see what changes are implemented. I suppose they are trying to make Valkenhayn more 'fair' without actually killing his character design (example being the additional IOH nerfs).

9/26 Tachikawa Kuresu (TS) vs Osaka (LI) Kuresu (TS) vs Kawata (HZ)

9/1 Mix Up Night Suya (VK) vs Eotoi (JI) J Anson (HZ) vs Suya (VK) Suya (VK) vs Itou (CA) Suya (VK) vs N-O (RC)

I'll slightly modify it to include some points TGR made. Main thing is that you don't wanna be too passive (anymore can be discussed in MU thread). Thanks. Believe he's gone back to Noel.

Yeah it's part of the conditioning. There isn't anything exactly 'wrong' to do against Tager unless you're being extremely wild.

The problem with using 5C against Tager is if he IBs it, you have no safe way to get out of that situation unless you RC (or DP lol). (This is assuming you're going for a followup, otherwise charge cancel is viable but only for a certain amount of frames) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIClPvC-Qoo&t=3m58s I agree with the conditioning behind it, but I don't feel it's effective with 6A because it's slow. It gives more time for Tager to retaliate with a 360/720. If it's blocked it's fine but you can be 360/720'd out of startup, and what makes it worse is 6C moves you forward. I agree that playing too passively isn't the way.

Read matchup section please.

Man you must have a lot of character experience to say that everyone has the worst matchup against Kokonoe, that completely beats what I said earlier! Listen man, it still stands that you're saying that her worst matchup is Jin. You also said that you believe Tsubaki doesn't have any awful matchups! Tell me that isn't bullshit. So I'll tell you what right now. I'm not going to continue to amuse you, so if you have anything else to say regarding this subject you can take it to the chat or PM. Anything else you or anyone says on this matter is gonna get fuckin' bombed, and if you try to continue I'll infract you. If you don't have anything constructive to say, please do not post.

Do what you want mate. Sure I would be nice to respect it, but no. I am not a nice person, therefore I don't respect it. This isn't the first time you have said something so shocking. What is wrong with you? Seriously? Jin? Tell me something. Do you have a lot of good matchup experience? Do you have a lot of good Kokonoe experience? I don't think you have a lot of MU exp, and if you do, it isn't to a good degree. Fuck sake this forum man. Use some common sense.

Please read this again and evaluate. Don't come back here until you do.

FFS go away man

You're generally quite passive, and you don't seem to have a solid gameplan. Things just kinda seem all over the place, as I don't really understand why you do certain things at times. You're also using j.236A way too close to Jin, he should be punishing you on descent. Pretty sure 5B > 22D > AH doesn't work. You do autopilot 5B > 6A a lot, need to vary it a little. I think your pressure isn't very effective at times too. Like, you'll do 5CC > charge cancel, and they'll be a huge gap before you resume pressure. Imagine, they have an easier time to mash at that point. You're rushing in a lot against Carl, you should take your time. Hang back, charge, if the doll commits to anything, use a fireball or 5B her and IAD away. You should watch Kuresu to see how he plays against Carl.