Surf

Digital pre orders get Elph too? I thought she was only for people who preordered physical copies And I'm guessing if you don't preorder digitally you don't get to play it earlier on the 2nd

Anyone want to play

I never said Hydes neutral is good. Just that Seth doesnt have as much control in that aspect of the match like you stated earlier. Orbiter is subpar but still a problem. Seth can jump or 214B over them and punish the recovery with j.A but thats a risky play even if the reward is decent. Hyde can always choose to do nothing (which is probably his best option against an over aggressive Seth), let Seth hang himself and anti air with 6B. 22x doesnt track but is still an effective tool at sniping Seth if hes around the mid-long range area. Which is the safest range for Seth to set up an orb in the air or on the ground. Its safe to set one up full screen, but your still full screen and have to make it to Hyde while avoiding getting hit with anything so orb still fires. If you caught blocking at best the orb will hit Hyde. In my experience mid-long range orbs have worked best Seth is similar to how you described Hyde, Skye. One of his worst weaknesses is a patient player. His pressure usually thrives on the opponents confusion/frustration on dealing with it. His A teleports also serve as frametraps but they dont have hitboxes unless your in hitstun. So if you press nothing, nothing will happen. Crossup dives can be vexing enough to bait you into attempting to 3C/dp him, only to miss because he backdashed. Best thing to do is block him and know the Seths teleporting tendencies. Not every one is safe. The times youll have to worry about blocking Seth is after a knockdown and he has orb backup

I agree with Nereus. People seem to over estimate and not understand what Seth is doing during pressure. A large majority of his pressure without orb backup is fradulent. The opponent is usually just so confused as to whats going on, (lack of matchup exp, him warping all over the place, etc) Seth gets away with alot more than he actually should. With orb backup his pressure becomes much stronger with covered assaults, crossups, covered fast fall lows, comboing from his overhead and making it safe, etc. He has a large number of options. But none of them can be considered 50/50s.. Where it doesnt involve reacting, but guessing. I picked him up recently and Hyde is my most played matchup. And in terms of the match I dont particurlarly think Seth is in control in neutral. Yes he can manuever around and avoid Hyde pretty well. But getting an orb on the screen is always dangerous because of orbiter and 22x. Seth has to make constant risky decisions in neutral (when not at long range) that usually dont pan out to the amount of reward that Hyde gets from a simple decision like throwing orbiters. A couple of stray normals/orbiters + 2 Hyde combos usually means a dead or 10% Seth. Even Hydes chip damage normals are a nightmare for Seth. Where a simple blockstring results in a couple hundred+ damage in just chip. Which Seth cant afford. And usually being placed in the corner without meter or vorpal to 623C/Veil Off/Guard Thrust usually results in death for the Seth player. Neutral can somewhat go either way but if Seth is caught hes usually done for unless he has the resoruces to get out (which i guess goes for most of his matchups)

Why is Nu considered really good in this version. I thought after the character split she would have lost options

3 worst matchups I've done so far are Ken, Mitsuru, and Liz. And all 3 of them are somewhat for the same reasons. You can't set up against them because its too dangerous and they have normals that easily stuff j.C, even on air to air. Once you get a confirm you pretty much just have to go in and try to end it as fast as possible. In my notes, I have these 3, and a couple other characters, under Snow weather. The added meter will help with 214AB and 236CD to gain at least some sort of momentum (I honestly feel her SB moves are some of the best in the game). You'll also have meter for super enders often and OMC 5BB mixup attempts. But you have to make the decision to change the weather manually the first match and risk not having it the second match, since you might not be able to end the first match with super. Ending in snow risks the next matchup being Sunny, which doesn't help with the neutral game at all. Cloudy helps, but the main problems with these matchups is that Cloud/getting shocked don't hinder the characters. Ken can still poke 3/4's of the screen away and summon Koro despite being shocked. Mitsuru can just drill the shit out of you and take a chunk of damage away if your just an inch too close. And Liz can just sit there and Zio if you try to setup anything. And Zio kills eyes immediately so they're useless. If anything if they do become shocked, you can confirm with 2C if your close enough and transition into safejump and start your offense. If your too far and still too wary to approach despite them being shocked then try to get a chocolate out and follow behind it From my earlier list, if your hoping for a round in Snow, make sure to end your first round in Cloudy. The next round will be either Rainy or Snow. If its Rainy your guaranteed Snow in the 3rd round since I don't think weathers repeat twice by themselves in one match. If you want Snow a second time it'll have to be manually I actually need to use 214AB more, saves alot of set up time. And I honestly didn't know chocolate auto corrects and cloud shocks on block

More matches I do the more I think next round weather change may be percentage based based on the weather you had before the round is over. Like Celerity mentioned earlier, ending in Rainy or Cloudy raises the chance of having the next round be Snow by quit a lot. Testing through matches, I think Snows percentage is higher when a match ends in Cloudy. For me anyway. I've been ending in Rainy hoping to get Snow the next round and it just becomes Sunny again. I don't think she can go from Sunny to Snow either. If she does the percentage for it happening is extremely small. I also can't recall Rainy > Cloudy happening. The number of rounds that have transpired may also have some influence over it. Say I win the first round and end it in Cloudy/Rainy hoping for Snow. But the next round ends up being Sunny. But if I were to do the same thing on the second match (meaning I lost one) Snow, would almost always happen This is just me hypothesizing but I think it may go somewhere along the lines of Sunny > Rainy/Cloudy Cloudy > Rainy/Snow Rainy > Sunny/Snow Snow > Sunny/Cloudy Edit: Fast forwarding through my replays, I'm pretty certain those pairing are right

Last night vs the Ken I noticed that Koromaru bounced the present away when he hit it. Which surprised the hell out of me. I think hitbox it may come in contact with may hit it away. Just doesn't happen often because most things don't hit the ground that low. And in the mirror match when present collides with itself both of them just jump into each other and don't move

2C > Delay (iad) j.B > 4A is a better option. j.C's hitstop is too small to actually safejump reliably with. Airdash j.C is good to use after 236A enders midscreen though. But I only do that because they're usually too far for a meaty iad j.B I played her offline for a couple hours earlier and I'm starting to get the feel of things, did like 60+ matches. Annel is right in that her buttons are honestly not as great as they look. I fought Ken, Yu, Slab, Shadow Mitsuru, and Yukari. And the hardest matchup was Ken because his normals would outright beat mine and Koromaru or Ken 236A/B/iad j.B would kill any attempt at setting up in neutral. Only chances I got to put things up were on knockdown. But I later learned resetting it back to neutral against him isnt the best idea. Feel like it's a matchup where you have to stay ontop of Ken the entire time. Snow helps for mixup and 236CD is great to use since trying to poke against him usually doesn't end well. 2D helped in the Ken matchup alot for when they would sit almost full screen and try to command Koromaru. The arrows would either hit Koro or get Ken to block, stopping Koromaru's attack. Igor helped a lot later in the night when my opponent would just iad and press something when they saw her reaching in her bag. I'm really glad she has a move to purposefully stop the opponent from doing that. Eyes are a great defensive tool because if your caught blocking and they're out, the suction will usually screw up the opponents strings. Making something whiff. I'd then whiff punish with 5/2C. 236236C is an amazing tool to do full screen punishes with and can go into major damage by itself with sunny or rainy. Or you could always just change the weather into something that makes the matchup more manageable. 214A stance cancels are a great way to end pressure or to bait our whatever the opponent is doing. It's extremely potent in the corner. Once they start getting antsy to press buttons you can start frametrapping between 5B/5C/2C to gain respect again. Also be mindful of people doing run up grab on you. Wither you tech it or not, it'll have what you placed on screen go away. Situations similar to how players will grab Rachel to get rid of George or pumpkin(?). But if you see them doing that just set up some chocolate after knockdown and be prepared to stuff a roll/jump in attempt. If they sit and block, go in

Ah. Ok then. Thought it'd be a problem to anti air it. Guess not. I updated my earlier post with 214C/D durability testing. Special is extremely interesting

Well then.... I was going to make a post that eyes are pretty disappointing in neutral but just now I fought a Marie and my opinion has changed I noticed it when i played her last week but since then I'd completely forgotten That eyes absorb projectiles while they're set. Playing Yukari, they even manage to eat 214C/D and 236A/B completely. Even if the animations still go across the screen the durability is already gone and the arrows go through Marie. Once I enter awakening I would attempt 236A > 214214C/D for a mixup oppurtunity only for one of the eyes to eat up all of 236A and me not being able to cancel into the super since it doesn't hit Marie. I caught on quick and start iad'ing in only to come up short or further than I intended because the eyes gravity was screwing with my movement ever so slightly. It was honestly annoying as shit. Not many characters in the cast rely on projectiles in neutral heavily but just the fact they seem to absorb anything I shot at them is extremely good. Going to test just how much they can take in a bit Also j.C is obnoxious as hell. Yukari can stuff it easily if done so early (and since her 2B is a projectile), but once it was out already I couldn't do much about it. Makes me wonder what the characters with normal anti airs do about it Testing eyes now and I'm seeing they eat anything Projectile lv.4 and under as long as they aren't supers. There are some special cases where something thats lv.4 and not a super can kill them though. But I'm so so on the supers part since Naoto's 236236A gets rid of the eye while 236236B doesn't. Which I found odd. Also using Naoto's 236C on the eye takes a persona card away from her despite the eye not having a hitbox yet. And 236C actually being Body attribute. Didn't really see this happen with other moves. Rise's Ouroboros pretty much kills all eyes on contact. All her other projectile do absolutely nothing to them. 2C goes under them though. Liz's regular Zios kill eyes but none of her other projectile moves kill them. They eat Yu's 236C but not his 236D. Labrys's 236C/D and the eye cancel each other out. Nothing Yukiko does besides 236C/D or her supers will get rid of the eyes. Aigis 2B is useless fullscreen since the eye eats one important bullet. As long as Marie remains grounded shes fine. But Aigis's 236A/B still retains the hitbox despite being absorbed by the eye. So if Marie is right behind it she has to block. Using 236A/B on two seperate occasions kills the eye while unloading ALL of her bullets with 236AB doesn't. Weird... Junpei can actually bat the eyes upon their activation (pfft). Minazukis cross slash super doesn't "hit" Marie because the eye takes the supers durability away... wow. Would test Teddie's items but that's going to take too long. Maybe tomorrow All in all I'm still a bit confused on how they work exactly. Some moves they "eat" the durability and they just become animations with no hitboxes. But with Aigis her bullets retained they're hitbox. Only thing I can think is since she's shooting so many some are unaccounted for and can still hit Marie. There are some exceptions with non super moves that aren't lv. 5 like Yukiko's 236C/D, Liz's Zios, Yu 236D, etc. But those were rare. All I know is that these things are a big problem for Yukari

They took away Kagura plus as hell B oki. What is wrong with these devs. That's all he had left

Thanks for the framedata link Hm She only has 2 jump cancels moves on block. And only 1 dash cancel 5A and 2B are jump cancel on block. 5C is forward dash cancelable on block, feels like shes 0 or -1 after the dash. 5B is only jumpcanceable on hit, I have no idea why though. 5BB, 5C and 2C are also jump canceable on hit only Everything besides j.236A/B after 5BB leaves a gap. 5BB > 2B is DPable. 5BslightdelayB > 2B doesnt have a gap before the 2B but theres a gap before the 2nd 5B since you have to delay it to make the 2B gapless. Just it having some sort of gap there everytime makes me not want to use 5BB in pressure. 5BB and Igor are her FC moves. 214214C/D is Fatal Recovery j.B has great horizonetal range. Ass vertical. j.2B has great vertical. Ass horizontal. Hitting them high with j.2B has her bounce backwards. Low enough and she doesn't go into the bounce. I'm experimenting with airturn j.2B in the corner since she bounces into the opponent and can continue pressure. May be able to j.B fuzzy if you do it high enough. Low to the ground and she's super plus. Plus enough for 2C to be gapless, and that's 16 frames I'm not so good with creating combos so I'll be trying to find some sort of oki/setups with her the next 2 days before i play offline Edit: About j.2B. It seems like you can also negate the bounce by just inputing B again. She'll cancel into j.B but land before it comes out, keeping frame advantage and negating the bounce. iad > Airturn j.2B still seems more plus than a normal iad though Edit2: Combo > j.Bj.2B > j.C in the corner is a safejump. Marie goes through no landing recovery so she's able to block as soon as she lands. Problem is j.C barely has any hitstop so it's hard to see if you confirmed or not

Yea that was my mistake One thing I noticed about 236D is that the opponent floats a lot longer and isn't knocked back as far as if they're hit by 236C. Might be able to get a combo off of it if it hits midscreen I was thinking maybe something like Crouching FC 5/2C > 236D > 5A might work.

Well his twitch archive is still up but I'm not sure if he's ok with it being posted here too. Since he took down the youtube link For her combos, from what I've seen it doesnt look like she gets much mileage off of a standing or crouching midscreen confirm. The 2B anti air combo Godhand made did about 2974 before the super ender. 3.9kish with super ender of the same weather element 2B > 5C > 2C > 2B > 5BB > Sweep > 214A~C > dash 2C > 5C > 236A > 236236C AoA stuff did a reasonable amount of damage as well. About 3.9k. Throw combo in the corner did 4243 damage with same weather super ender.

Midscreen 5B > 2C > j.C(2) > j.2 > 5B > iad late j.B > 5B > 2 > 214A > 2B > sj.236D~, Around 3.4k I think Corner 5B > 2C > j.C(2) > j.2 > 2B > 5 > 214A > 5B > 2C > jump back j.B > j.236C~ i forget the damage for the corner one. Delaying the 2B or charging it a bit after the j.2 helps so they aren't too high after the 214A > 5B part For an easier midscreen route you can do 5B > delay 2C > 2B > delay 5B > iad late j.B > 5B > 2 > 214A > 2B > sj.236D~, Around 3k

No the list goes Grey Dark Blue Dark Green Green (Possible to go from Grey to Green) Yellow Orange Red You usually go from Grey to Green if you win a decent amount but if you lose your Green to another Green you turn Dark Green. Technically the lowest is Dark Blue. Grey is pretty much "undetermined"

I got to play her for about 40 minutes last night. She's so fun. I agree that its hard to think what her combos will be, midscreen anyway. In the corner I can see Starter > 236C > Sweep > etc being her optimal stuff. Midscreen I was ending combos in sweep > 236C then I'd do j/2D and then get some stuff on the screen. Cloudy and Snow are both so good. I never manually changed it to rain. If I was changing the weather it would always be those two j.236A/B seem really weird to combo into on air confirms. Wanted to end air combos in j.2B and link j.D on the way down but I never got the chance. Well, she's out in 4 more days

Ok is right, because its entirely possible wtf. Just because you can't IB consistently online doesn't mean nobody else can Barrier is good. But people don't barrier with the idea of "Im going to barrier this or this character is hurt by barrier". Once they enter blockstun they're finger is already on barrier. No matter the situation or character

Izayoi is able to activate guard bonus on the opponent with Trans-AM. As mAc said it's there to stop (or try to stop) infinite gapless blockstrings that may occur. Also did I actually see Myoro say blocking isn't that bad at all to do on the other page. Holy shit man. IB is one of the best ways to gain meter while not being on the offense. The meter gain isn't as great as earlier iterations but it's still a sizable amount. Whenever I play I see almost no one IB'ing reliably/consistently. Barrier is being held like they're souls depend on it and then they burst on block since they don't have any meter because they never IB'd or got a hit in. Want more meter gain on your defense? Learn to IB. Especially for the character who rely on counter assault to get the opponent off of them, or reversals that require meter

I didnt mention SB. I said C/D

We''ll just have to see what her oki route(s) actually ends up becoming

Well you would shut down jump as an option but the opponent would still have a plethora of other options. Roll, DP, press something, character specific stuff, etc. Think about knockdown in the corner into cloud and you sitting there. The opponent could just get up and press something which would result in your blocking. You get hit, clouds gone. They don't jump, they don't have to worry about it. And cloud descent is pretty damn slow in the corner. Looks slower than its descent midscreen. Chocolate travels on the ground and ontop of them when active so if it stops both roll and delay tech, it should stop almost all the opponents options on wakeup. And they'll have to block the 6 hits. SB present resulting in chocolate and 2 clouds in Cloudy sounds really good. And you'd have the chance to also set up an eye or two. We'll just have to see how everything turns out

I didn't save the replay but it wasn't a clash. We were both hit and another one came out immediately after. It might have been the same concept as if it clashed though. I'd say it was netplay because even when I tried to roll after the droit I'd be hit. Have the recovery on A droit changed or has it just never been known exactly how plus she is