TheBossGiga

Haku's heat gain is absurd now, He gains like a star passively every 4 seconds and when he lands a hit,blocks, gets hit, or ib's it jumps. I seen him gain at least 19 stars in one round. He's pretty decent right now

(Thinking) If haku had a standard dash his neutral game would be straight up disgusting. His ability to keep you blocking would definitely go up as well but not by much because he doesnt have that many normal gatlings.. he wouldn't be much scarier to block against though because he wouldn't be able to hop tsubaki/hotaru... he could always just TK em though but then he wouldn't be able to extend their ranges and they so they wouldn't be as effective to use. He can already sort of emulate a somewhat safer dash pressure game with kishuu after any normal or special at the cost of a star. Then again he wouldn't be forced to spend that star on moves like 5a 2a 5b 2b 6a if he hit far because the opponent would have to commit to mashing out and jumping out would be much scarier to do due to dash 5a being air unblockable but 5a whiffs crouching so if they do a low attack he would eat a CH..... while currently he's able to take care of both hitting buttons and jumping away currently after any of those normal with hop hotaru and if their scared of that then u could get that godly fast tsubaki off or a throw. his neutral would be ultra rape though.... (done thinking) I kinda feel like haku's hop works for him. imo his pressure may be better off with it. However If haku had a run his neutral would be stupid

that was tight...

TD ggs bro. my power just went out. tis poverty. also ggs crevox

This mans feelings are obviously hurt. that or he's joking. either way very funny.

Oh i c. im sure it could beat rolls after you land just hit 2b so if they rolled you'd just hit em if they rolled forward if 2b hits em soon enough that it counts as a air hit you wont lose the corner if you have meter to 236b 623a to switch sides. If they late tech though you'll have less than decent oki the opponent might have an advantage depending on who your playing though. The thing is though if your OS'ing 2b to catch rolls, if they late tech your at a huge disadvantage so you'd have to decide either or (unless of course your fast). in that aspect its worse than regular 3c oki. Also its not hard to escape because they see it coming though. Really after you do it once they know the setup since its so obvious so if they realize they could just late tech it, it'd be a waste to ever do it again. imo its almost a gimmick. Again however i cant test it so i cant be sure

I think there are a few reasons actually 1.it uses an extra star for something for a setup that's advantages could be achieved without its use 2.Its kinda easy to block cuz even if you delay J.c a little to feint it and go into a low J.c's start up is a bit slow so and noticing the change in timing wouldnt be that difficult and because haku's airdash is so long you wouldn't be able to (kinda) safely airdash to screw with their timing and their heads. Also though it goes into a 50/50 you need 3mag to go into and this after using the star for the oki 3.This may not sound big but It gives the person alot of time to take in the situation and think. The setup has like no shock value at all. It is too recognizable, its gurren then a like three second long neutral high jump. it gives the opponent time to plan their move while they already know ur next. 4.I dont feel like testing it but maybe its possible that after a full combo they might be able to tech the gurren after the wallbounce. 5. This its biggest problem. It looks like it loses to late teching but even worse than that it also looks like it loses to no teching which if this is the case after they eat the J.c for like 3 dmg and a star their pretty much out of the corner(i wanna say for free but it did cost haku 1 star....) so you lost all that work putting them in the corner and ended up in the corner yourself for a star I cant test it to say for sure. But in the end it looks like a really bad setup to me. What i do in the corner after 3c in the corner is simply back up a lil and 2b. it catches rolls, if you time it right stuffs late techs into a full combo 5a(without meter) 236b(with), if they neutral tech u'll whiff but recover fast enough to 2b again of tsubaki em(its close enough to a 50/50 for me lol) and if the 2b is spaced correctly it beats most dp's( not jin's D dp though ). if you wana be really safe after 3c back up a little bit more and 3c, you have to react to rolls(if they forward roll they'll still be in front of you) also when you do this you cant confirm into a combo unless you RC and 236b immediately but its safe against all dp's. Im sure you all already know this setup though. its just not elaborate enough for you fancy pants

2a also connects to 3c now. What im really hoping for in CP is that haku actually gets a legit Fatal tool besides hotaru that he can use to frame trap and actual fatal combos that do freak dmg off of said move. Dreams man, gota hav'em

So whats up, no info on the jbbs?

I think he means he wants his dmg to grow exponentially with stars like in ct instead of like it is now where for every star you add like 1.5k to your avg dmg

Fu** you, You B*t** a** Ni**a Also you could hear Bullets and Azreals themes pretty well on that video. Seems like the man daisuke's going back to predominately heavy guitar for the new music if these songs are anything to go by.

There was this one line in CT at the start of the match where he says "A match? No, This.. Will Be A MASSACRE!" this along with a few more godlike things he said caused him to be my most favorite character out of anything.. ever... WHY DID THEY REMOVE THAT LINE!?

No its been bothering me too...

Sry for double post didnt see your post but i wana RESPOND btw i learned how to quote Neutral. If you hadn't noticed they changed haku's entire design by then he wasn't a char that punished mistakes instead he was a character that the the opponent had to play around because he pretty much had tools in all game states(offense,neutral,defense) that dictated how you can play against him. The thing is his meter gain kinda dictated what he could do aswell It actually was -_-.. i Hate the top tier effect. just because she was top tier doesnt mean every single thing about her was better than everyone lower tier. Really unless you still believe mak is a neutral god in EX she wasnt that much stronger than haku in neutral if at all because not much changed about her pokes and speed from CS2 to Ex. This is for the most part true. But its really not as bad as your making it out to be. the cool down was somewhere between 3-5 secs after an attack that cost 2+stars so unless they bursted Right after you've used an attack you only gota wait like a second or 2 before it kicks back in. Besides his meter gain wasnt that bad On most combos 3 mags or under he gains enough back to almost breaks even And Besides that haku has the advantage in neutral. Well first you wouldn't be using 4mag(3 actually) unless you wanted almost full screen corner carry, Second you wouldn't use that many mags if you wouldn't have enough to do a decent corner combo after,and Third im not sure if you heard but haku's 5a as an anti air is actually pretty good, but really it is by no means easy getting in on haku if your playing right (unless your tao, lambda, or valk) im not saying its impossible but it is definitely not easy. So if your actually getting IAD'd on regularly and feel helpless while its happening that's your fault. Really though that entire situation was based on bad haku play 6b gets you oki, if the dont emergency tech you can follow up with 2b,5a, air stuff for like 1-2k and some corner carry, if you decide to wait until they normal tech 2b should beat both rolls and you can confirm into like 2-3k even about 5k if your feeling very generous 6b is ok for what it is. Tsubaki can also be followed up for about 3k anywhere on screen 5k in the corner. And damn yo zantetsu is still a move lol. I never thought that i'd have to argue that haku's 4c is a good tool. It just being there makes it hard to just run up on him. it being special cancellable make it so that if it hits you can confirm into pressure and or a combo. If it were any faster it would be broken as hell, the extended hitbox problem only comes into play if they specifically and directly call it out which if they are actively attempting to do then you have an extreme opening on your hands that you can exploit. like you said though against tager and carl it ascends from just being great to godlike and also like you said J.c is even better but that still doesn't make it bad. The 2a nerf was definitely not significant at all. 6A was big but a special cancellable 4c and every single C getting a few frames faster and 5c getting 100p1 is much bigger bro But to summarize while cs2 hakumen had a few good match-up CT haku had none at all and i doubt he would ever if he stayed the same. After Ct haku had more going for him than just dmg his neutral became much much stronger and he actually got oki. you gota see this objectively man he's simply better than ct in the most important ways most of the weaknesses you stated for cs2 haku CT haku had to a far greater extent(save meter gain) even in CT his greatest strength his strength, was not even strong cuz more people simply hit more, more often ,for less and saying that top three held him back from being higher is wrong those matchups would have only went from terrible to horrible those three have never been good match-ups for haku regardless of how good he's gotten or how bad they've gotten(4get cs1 rach please) those three didnt magically make hakumen have bad matchups against everyone else so he would have definitely stayed bottom regardless. Im glad this is Haku general i cant shake the feeling that im derailing the thread

Ok i still dont feel like typing much so this will be kinda short. So onto CS2 Haku. Overall he had the Best normals out of any of the previous iterations of haku. He had actual control of space and because of that haku could control the pace of the match. He could confirm any hit into Oki if you wanted to something that CT haku wouldnt even recognize. His dmg was actually similar to what it is now for the most part. His meter gain was nerfed pretty badly which is what put the breaks on his dmg held his game back for the most part. if he got a buff to this alone he would've been A tier. Imo CS2 haku was the most well balanced ver. of haku yet. The only notable buffs he got were upper invul 6a, increased meter gain, increased J.b untech time and gat into J.2a, a special cancellable forward throw, and a sick kishuu i think everything else were nerfs But still that was all he needed to become top tier. Their were no drastic changes to his character design or boosted proration just a few buffs here and there and he was godlike. Forgive me for not going into too much detail i forced myself to type this.

Ill go into what bladeofjustice7 said later cuz iuno how to quote. But honestly if you think CT haku had in anyway better tools than CS2 iuno where to begin. CT haku was a incomplete character. Besides 6A and 3c he had no good tools unless you think zanshin is good. By design in CT he was a char that relied on your opponents mistakes to win which may seem good but when your opponents mistakes count more than your own solid playing you have a bad character(like tager). He had no tools to win at neutral at all he simply had to take what you give him and then guess out with a hard read or punish a bad move. This may work at low levels but the better the people you are playing the more he has to rely luck. His moves were slow and had mad recovery on em so whiff punishing was stupid easy. Zanshin was better than it is now but the whole idea of a DP that loses to throws and either highs or lows while still just as punishable doesnt make too much sense when a char is sorta built around them, even yukikaze the counter that costs 50heat lost to lows..... The only thing he had going for him was dmg and if you put it in perspective at the time was not That good. At 1 to 4 mags he got about the same dmg as everyone else did without any heat except he had really shitty normals so on top of being risky really anything you used before like six mags was wasted. He had no good match-ups point blank because he was so fundamentally weak, even against bang who wasnt so much fundamentally weak than just weak in general(like CS1 tsubaki) was only and even MU. Literally If you were to put CT haku in any iteration of BB he would be bottom or close to it. I think this CT love can only be chalked up to nostalgia and the fact that back then you were able to get away with such a bad char because most people were bad at the time. I wana talk about CS2 haku but i typed a bit so il wait BUT 4c being a bad tool is one of the dumbest things ive read in awhile no offense. It simply existing makes haku a much better character.

Im sorry but imo Haku definitely wasnt horrible in cs2 and i sincerely doubt he will be bad in CP. Haku has been a sound character since CS1 it would be hard to nerf him to trash status. If his Magatama cool down stays the same, He still has 4c and Jc, Hotaru exists, his overheads are still almost unreactably fast, and if 6a is a solid anti-air He will be solid. This may be late but cool down a little you guys are just used to being top tier. P.S: CT haku was weak.

@Bladeofjustice7 Sorry i dont think you get it. Your implying GG's burst system is worse than BB's reward wise when in reality it's not. In BB you get a free combo if it hits if its blocked ur +3 or 4 i dont remember so no matter what, you have atleast a 2 frame gap, thats not exactly 100% free pressure. In GG you get a full 100 tension if it hits for mixups, pressure, DA's whatever. if its blocked im not exactly sure but your safe til you hit the ground for the most part. In BB you lose your burst until you lose a round, in GG its even possible to burst twice in one round, however unlikely. Sry but bro GGs gold bursts are in no way weaker than BB's

Somethings been bothering me. Aki's supposedly some shit(exaggeration) right but If thats the case why do i see him in vids so often. Is the game actually that balanced or is he not as bad as ppl thought? I dont really follow the game much so help me out.

To beat it all you have to do is block it. it doesn't hit high so just block it low, it really shouldn't strengthen her mix up much outside of frame traps. its start up is like 18 frames so its not especially fast for a poke and after you block it you can punish it with almost anything you want its very negative on block i usually go for 5b>combo. if hes using it during your blockstrings start trying to fit 5c and/or 5b in em that will stop him if hes a thinking man. The move shouldnt be that strong he's probably just throwing out hard reads and i think no-one is psychic so you can and will punish him for doing it if your not obvious, he is guessing after all. Edit- also obviously dont try and beat it with lows like 3c and 2b. Ive also have had instances where it has beaten 4c so im iffy about that one. Also people consider it kinda scrubby but never forget that up-back Barrier kills mix-up just don't over rely on it ul get punished

Amen. Thanks for that, but shouldn't someone put this in the wiki though? by the way talk has been going on im not sure if the frame data is gettin updated for Ex

Im sorry this has been bothering me but why does 2c 5d work at the end of some highly prorated combo's while 5c 5D doesnt, example: 3c (CH) 5c 5d DS 5c(jc) 4hit air combo BE 6b 2c 5d DID(1) punch 66 3c. like wtf is the deal isnt 5c a higher level move, and recovery on the move shouldnt matter because they both gat into 5d... thanks for the help.