Doonpa

Feel free to post any ideas, strategies, or questions about the match up here.

I was able to hit this today just messing around with Sho: vs airborne opponent 2B 5B 5C j.A j.C(2) j.236AB land 2A 5B 5C 2B 2AB 236B~B~C land 214AA ~3.6k for 25 meter vs Narukami. This is incredibly finicky but it does show that j.236AB land 2A stuff can net good damage under the right circumstances. I haven't tried Sweep 236B~B-C/D~AB stuff yet since I don't really play anymore but are you guys sure that its not worth 25% to extend a combo via j.236AB land 2A at least vs characters you can't jump loop? Sho's proration sucks and that hurts extended combos but I'm sure if done early in a combo the 25% wouldn't be too bad. Even if you have to end the extension at Sweep instead of 236AAA or whatever, I think it would be fine especially against characters that you can hit with j.B dj.B j.C fuzzy guard off sweep knockdown.

Damn, kara cancel air teleport into SB Helmbreaker is being mentioned now? lol Anyway, this is how the lowest possible j.236AB is done: Input 2369C then quickly hit A+B. What happens is that you'll get j.236AB to come out without carrying any of your jump momentum and you'll do an extremely low to the ground overhead . Heres a list of things you can use j.236C~AB for: Safe jumping: This move has 0f of recovery, so when timed properly you can safe jump almost any reversal in the game except for things that are almost instantly active or they are some kind of catch-based counter move (i.e Minazuki's counter super). Any knockdown that you get and have 25% stocked can lead to a safe, virtually unreactable meaty overhead set up if done properly. Pressure: As said before, 0f recovery means you can block or move immediately when you land from this attack. Since you are so low to the ground when you recover, if your opponent blocks this attack, you are at a pretty hefty amount of frame advantage. So its a good way to keep the pressure on while throwing in a quick overhead into the mix of your pressure strings. For example, Sho can do short hop j.B into j.236C~AB to keep the pressure going safely or do something like 4AA j.236C~AB. Since this move is so fast as well, you can often times catch your opponent trying to mash by resetting pressure off stuff like 5B by letting it recover and then going into j.236C~AB. Mix up: Somewhat of an extension to what you can do in pressure, except you do it more with the intention of hitting your opponent for blocking in correctly. Off standard safe jump setups off of something like sweep for example, you can essentially do j.B into either j.236C~AB or land 2A for a safe jump 50/50. This can be done for low IADs as well to add an extra overhead before you land, etc. This can also be done off j.2C. You can do something like cross the opponent up with j.2C and then do j.236C~AB to catch them blocking low in anticipation of you just landing and continuing pressure. All in all, this technique is super super useful and it really helps solidify your game. This also helps open up other forms of mix up and offense such as tk SB teleport as a cross up or for setting up tk SB teleport 2A when your opponent thinks the SB helmbreaker is coming instead.

Lazy update to the video thread. If you guys weren't familiar with the JP website horibuna, you can use it for pretty much any fighting game you can think of and it will have a giant master list of games and characters matched up vs specific characters. Its updated frequently and pretty much achieves the same purpose as the video thread for us and enables me to be lazy about that thread. Google translate is going to be your friend there if you like it. In other news, this forum is pretty dead and what not which is fine considering 2.0 not dropping on consoles any time soon, but if you guys have any questions or suggestions about things regarding the character or this character board, feel free to drop anything you want to say here. Also, feedback on the Naoto wiki page would be greatly appreciated if anyone feels like theres anything worth adding/removing, etc. Next project on my mind will probably be to fill out the match up threads.

Updated the Naoto wiki again to be closer to completion. I'm going to fix up the combo section and add in the fact there are SB versions of her Gunshots and reread everything and include stuff like fate counter loss, etc.

To whoever edited the DL wiki page for Naoto and said those things about the Aigis MU: Please don't do that again. Thats a prime example of serious misinformation and I'd like to not want to punch myself in the crotch in anguish of what I read.

Updating the wiki slowly as we speak. Finished normal attacks. Going to work on persona attacks and specials. For combos and stuff I'm just gonna link my evernote and the combo thread for Naoto/S.Naoto combos. Biggest problem with the wiki is that a lot of the general frame data is not 100% accurate so after I finish writing stuff up I might actually have to test Naoto's stuff because I know i just found an error with Minazuki's 5A frame disadvantage

Watch her meter and spacings vs her. If she has 100% meter she is probably going to fix to interrupt your strings with her fullscreen laser attack or try to hit you with EX Etherlite whip (whatever her 214C is called). Best way to bait these things out is to just use a lot of whiff cancels in your pressure involving 2A/5A. Her supers should not be fast enough to tag you out of these moves if used as a whiff cancel off her normals like 2B, 5C, etc. Her 236A/236B have limited range so if you stand outside of it and poke at her from there you should be fine. Outside of that, your normals are much larger than hers so take advantage of your range and anticipate how she is going to get in on you. After that, knock her down and run DP safe oki involving tk assault j.[C]/land 2A. Doing this instead of a full jump into the mix up always you enough time to visually confirm them blocking Condense gloom first and still get the mix up. Very useful against characters with legitimate DPs. If she gets in on you, you have to hold her pressure. Try to shield things like 236A/236B for GRD and extra pushback. Don't shield her pressure involving her normals mindlessly because she can easily break your shield with assault j.C, delay throw, 6B, 66C, and j.214B if you are not careful. Veil off is your general "get off me" tool, but you should probably aim to VO during the start up of her overhead or a special attack since its very easy for the opponent to hold back to block during pressure to block your VO activation and kill you. Don't be scared of using up your Chain shift on her guard cancel to get Eltnum off of you. This also goes for you if you have VO activated already. Might as well use up some of the meter to get them off of you and set up a EX Gloom against them if they get hit by the guard cancel. Gotta pick your spots carefully when you try to mash out of pressure, but honestly trust in your defense and try carefully blocking until you get the GRD to get out. If you can't, then diceroll with a mash 2A/throw or divekick. This MU is pretty much just like all the others so stay cool when being pressured and establish your dominance in neutral asap and just knock her down and never let them back up.

Ok guys, I updated the combo thread. Is there anything else you guys would like me to potentially do for this board in the meantime? Still thinking about stuff to potentially add or edit, so help me out and throw some ideas at me lol.

Updated the combo thread with stuffs for 1.1 Naoto.

Shadow might still be the way to go simply because of unburstable shadow combos and having access to Raid > B shots for fate as well as shotgun stuff at any time for 50%. It would be cool if regular turned out to be better, but Shadow mode as a whole is a pretty kuso mechanic that might make her better overall. Probably will have to wait for console 2.0 to drop to see S.Naoto develop again because I can't imagine an arcade being a good environment to sit for hours on end testing routes with her.

Ahhh thats unfortunate but understandable. I had no idea that traps were bugged in such a way last game lol. Oh well. Is there any word about what they mean about shortened poison duration? I was talking to other players and everyone seems to agree that what it means is that poison does its damage more quickly but still does the same amount, which is definitely a nice little buff so far.

I want to say that the case is that if you combo into traps, they will do the same amount of fate they would if they were the combo starter. If thats the case, then its a good buff for Naoto for sure. Corner throw combo i.e Throw~follow up, C trap, D trap, j.C j.236A 2B 5C 236B~C shots 6D would do like 9-10 fate which is huuugee for no meter, though its character specific. Also another thing to keep in mind about B shots from Raid is that the proration on them is pretty bad, especially at the end of decently long combos (P2 of 400 for each shot IRPRIRPIRPRIRP). So sure, off short combos doing something like 2C, SB raid, B shot x 5 would maybe connect fully, but its probably not gonna be something that can be consistent unless you do it asap. But if they do adjust the proration to match A shot, then I can see this being a possible viable replacement for AHAHAHAHAHAxN. I still want to say that the untechable time nerf on SB B shot, shotgun nerf, nerf to follow up potential after SB Gun super, unlisted changes on proration/combo rates, unlisted changes to health, and meter gain adjustments to shadow characters might make regular Naoto stronger this time around but only time will really tell with respect to that.

Fuzzy should be intact assuming you do j.AAAB instead of j.AxN until you land. The limit on j.A should only apply to itself, not to her ability to chain into other things hopefully lol Working on a write up about her change list because I have a lot of ideas right now lol EDIT: Naoto change list impressions: http://pastebin.com/gUFgkYd4

Naoto vs Mitsuru Neutral Strats General things to do as Naoto: Set up C traps to create space initially, look for bigger openings to set up D traps and camp behind your traps. Shoot her to punish the persona or Mitsuru herself when possible if she does 5D/2D. j.C and j.D are hard for Mitsuru to deal with as Naoto seeing as she has a slower 5A and a worse 2B to stop these attacks. Stay moving but don't take risks in neutral and force her to get impatient on her approaches and be ready to whiff punish where possible and go on the offensive if you force her to block a trap or something. Use sweep as your main ground poke. Vs Mitsuru's attacks vs 5A: Easiest way to deal with Mitsuru's 5A is to Sweep under it. 4-11f are Chest invul on Naoto's sweep so from most spacings except max range, Naoto's sweep should be able to beat Mitsuru 5A. Mitsuru's 5A does not have many active frames either, so backdashing through it is a viable tactic in many situations to avoid it when you are in range expecting them to hit the button and then whiff punish her for it. Outside of these two things, staying out of 5A range and playing from fullscreen and forcing mitsuru to approach is the ideal way to avoid dealing with this move. vs 5D(D): If you read that this attack is coming or you react very quickly, Naoto can dash right through 5D and just hit Mitsuru from most ranges. Naoto can also crouch under this attack and then run at Mitsuru, but you probably won't be able to punish if you do this. If you wind up blocking this attack, IB the 5DD hit to reduce the pull in effect to prevent yourself from being forced closer to Mitsuru. It is also possible to just DP and use the projectile follow up to hit mitsuru for using this attack. vs 2D(D): Assuming that this is being done to stop you from moving around in the air or setting traps, just air block or space yourself outside its angle and range. Remember that if you used up your air options and you block 2D(D), you get back your air options. Just like 5DD, if you IB the whip follow up, you reduce the pull in effect which is important to avoid getting sucked into her range. vs Droit: Have traps out, she cannot Droit in safely if any of them are out on the ground. vs j.A: Zapper, AA Sweep and 2B both beat this attack, just have to recognize the ranges to use the appropriate move. vs j.B: Zapper or hope she flies into a trap or lands on a D trap. Still can't really AA this with 2B reliably without being super ready to 2B her on time. General Pressure Notes -IBing mitsuru is super important in this version because of her new auto combo. Mitsuru heavily relies on using her auto combo to set herself up spacing wise to pressure you safely and from ranges where most characters can't disrespect easily. Messing up her spacing i.e keeping her super close by IBing all of 5AAA is a great tactic. -Fuzzy jumping her pressure: Most Mitsuru STILL run the week one mix up of 4B/Throw. To avoid this kinda crap and most of her throw set ups, fuzzy jump (17C+D1) works wonders in avoiding the 4B and jumping/teching throws. Mitsuru players generally have to go out of their way and make a read on this with 2B or pressure in such a way to catch jump start up like 5AA 5C or something. - If you can react in time to sweep feints, you can mash Mitsuru out of pretty much anything she does after this. Likewise, if you react to Marin Karin resets, you can mash her out of most things she is gonna do afterwards. Like everything Mitsuru does, its her spacing that matters so IBing helps to throw it off and open herself up to easier punishes for trying to reset her pressure. -If you must DP Mitsuru out of her pressure, use DP+Throw OS aka B+D~C to do it just to be safe. Generally avoid DPing her because you really don't want to get fatal'd for no good reason. -Guard cancel attack is pretty good vs Mitsuru since she doesn't have pressure starters that inflict a lot of hitstop. Just gotta watch out if she decides to sweep/sweep feint and block as I think those go under Naoto's guard cancel iirc. -Roll can work vs Mitsuru but it has to be done in anticipation of like 5C or 5 otherwise Mitsuru can easily 5A punish most roll attempts so be careful with that. tl;dr be really annoying in neutral, be patient vs Mitsuru when she's on the offense. She doesn't convert into significant damage until she has meter so don't sweat getting hit for making educated guesses on defense from time to time. She also doesn't have any real mix up until she gets 50% meter too so don't be too concerned with getting blown up for blocking until then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipek0i0O5mk Made a I-no tutorial that goes over most aspects about the character.

vs Fuzzy jump, Naoto has ways to deal with opponents trying to do this on defense a lot. With the case of OSs, if your opponent does not mix up which OSs they are using to selectively counter your offense, you'll probably kill them hard once you get a read on what they are trying to do. These are the ways i've found to beat the OS so far, but when and where they get hit depends solely on the points at which they attempt to OS with 17C+D1. Basically, you have to pressure the opponent as if they were just trying to upback you. So things like 5A delay A, 2A delay 2A, 5A delay 2AA, 5AA slight delay 5C, stuff into delayed sweep, etc. are all example strings that you can use to stop fuzzy jump. The opponent should use that particular OS generally in points in your pressure where they think you'd potentially throw them or where you'd bait a reversal. By choosing to strictly fuzzy jump, they probably won't be looking to mash you out, roll, or DP. Its a safe option that covers many things you can do to them on offense, but it does cause them to forfeit some options IF and ONLY IF they choose to only do fuzzy jump. If you read that doc carefully, you'll see there are many other OSs such as DP Throw, Roll Throw, Short Hop Throw, Backdash Throw, etc. If you combine those OSs along with fuzzy jump and the traditional defensive options such as mashing and blocking, you'll have to change your offense to constantly counter your opponents defense.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIWEdCc31i3xhSeI2r6DzV0m8d1-QKqD1 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIWEdCc31i3zal8sdYYVn4LcrrrjgWHnR My play lists of various Naoto combos. Will continue to be updated as time goes by with more stuff. Will add S.naoto combos to a seperate playlist to keep the combos moderately organized and easy to find.

Enjoy folks: Regular Naoto Combos https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIWEdCc31i3xhSeI2r6DzV0m8d1-QKqD1 S.Naoto combos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIWEdCc31i3zal8sdYYVn4LcrrrjgWHnR

She can't divekick for free if you pressure her correctly, but if we are talking online then yeah good luck stopping that. Leaving gaps in your pressure and using a lot of 2A/low staggers will get you divekicked generally even offline. Also people still are under the impression that chasing Hilda's backtech with dash 2A is a good idea, which is not a good thing to try because most characters can't reach her in time to get a true meaty 2A that she can't just divekick free. If you are getting divekicked for chasing backtech, use a bigger, non low hitting attack to meaty her, and get big damage for them most likely being dumb. If you block her divekick, unless its done really low to the ground and properly spaced, its negative on block so use your fastest normal to beat her 6F 2A since its the fastest possible thing she can use after divekick to attack.

Thanks a ton for helping with the translations man, that was a big help. The combos are pretty much entirely straight forward with that. For the most part, i retrieve most JP Naoto combos/tech from Waka and Denpa on twitter. Their accounts have a lot of info on them, but they are pretty much entirely in JP. Here are their links if you are interested in them: https://twitter.com/radiowave777 and https://twitter.com/waka1_ Lots of combo theory/ideas and just general sentiments on certain combo routes and stuff here. On a more combo related topic, I was messing around with 2[C] FC combos and stuff with Naoto: Starting position/near corner/corner 2[C] FC microdash 236C or just 236CD if lazy/have meter to burn for more dmg, microdash 5C IAD j.C land 5C delay 236C, 5C IAD j.C land 5C 236C, 5C IAD j.C land 5C slight delay 236B into: A) 5C 214A~Cx5 B) 5C 236A~Bx5 (optional 214214A / 214214AB) C) 5C 236D 236236A or 236236AB You can OMB after the 3rd rep of 236C to add in another sweep 236C 5C to the combo which adds a good amount of damage to the combo. Pretty sure this isn't optimized yet so i'll be working on this more. This combo does a lot of damage so far, so we'll see how far I can take this. Adding more meter brings this to almost kill most characters if you spend like 150% meter as the combo is now.

S.Naoto combo doc made by JP players: https://www.evernote.com/shard/s387/sh/c5bc7888-939f-44d1-8e65-c4119c420a56/1ba08b93cf83b9198a815ff3e9c7cfde Its a pain in the butt translate everything, so I'll specify what certain words mean here when you google translate this document. Some stuff I don't know myself so anyone with good JP knowledge, i'd be happy if you could translate any particular misleading phrases for me. Renkiba/with Teeth= Fangs Leg sweeping= sweep Zapper= Blight/236X Program works/configuration?= snipe stance both parties= 236236AB SBHUA/HU= 214214A~A Kurishu= Critical shot finish moriphism= no idea central= midscreen end= corner Ailuropoda= no clue full partial payment= no idea D min= d trap?? bokosuka= AOA high jump= super jump throw empty= air throw? cumshot (not joking this is what google translate gives me)= no idea what this actually means

Patch notes were misinterpreted with respect to how many traps you can have out on the screen. In P4U, you could have up to 4 traps in total ( 2 D, 2 C traps). This was nerfed in P4U2 where you can only have a maximum of 3 traps in total, BUT in return you can set up to 3 of the same trap instead of just 2.

In general, going for fate with S.Naoto seems to be a much more reliable way to win than trying to go for the bigger combos. S.Chie and S.Mitsuru get practically 7k no matter what the starter so their damage output is very high and consistent as opposed to S.Naoto who won't always get that damage. The thing about their combos is that they utilize a lot of moves that just ignore hitstun for the most part (freeze mechanics with SB Mabufudyne, Agneyastra/power charge spam into one giant SB Godhand) so they'll usually be able to combo into their most damaging moves regardless of how poorly prorated the combo gets most of the time. Naoto doesn't really have that luxury since a lot of combos involve a series of fast cancels with links littered here and there that can be drastically affected by your starter. As for who does better vs Shadow characters, I'm kinda at a loss myself as to who to pick against them. S.Naoto is good because the opponent can't burst a single thing you do anyway and thanks to the ease of depleting fate counters, the amount of health other Shadow characters have becomes irrelevant. But at the same time, having a burst to avoid dying in one shot and effectively burning a Shadow character's Shadow Burst mode is great as well as getting that awakening health defense boost and what not. Honestly i think either character is perfectly viable in any level of play as the game stands right now outside of Japan, so just play who you like and who caters to your style more.

General S.Naoto Combo Theory: Any bad starter like 2A, j.AA, etc. you probably won't get anything truly damaging from this so opting to go for the safe route of just going into Shadow Fury Mode and then doing 236236AB x 3 is pretty much ideal. Omitting one 236236AB and trying to set up a meaty SB Hamaon is also a very good idea if 2 shotgun enders are enough to take away all of the opponent's fate. Off better starters you want to generally go into one of these two routes: Shadow Activation, j.B j.236B delayed j.236A 236A TC 2AB 236CD 214B SB B shot(B+C) 236B SB C shot(A+C) 236D xx 236236AB into either 236236AB again OR dash 2AB 214214AB into 1-3 shots into C Critical shot ender Shadow activation, j.B j.236B heavily delayed j.236A TC 5C 236D 214B SB B Shot (B+C) delayed SB A Shot (A+B) 236B TC 214A SB C Shot (A+C) 236D xx 236236AB into either 236236AB again OR dash 2AB 214214AB into 1-3 shots into C Critical Shot ender. Common starters that lead to into Shadow Activation or things like 2AB, C Zapper, AA 2B, random trap hit, etc. Enjoy folks. ====================================================================================== Shadow Combos I've Written Down So Far: SBM= Shadow Burst Mode aka ACD when you have 100% meter TC= Trap cancel aka j.214CD in such a way that you don't actually get traps out. Meant to speed up the recovery of certain attacks. -A shots (fullscreen) SBM Raid(1) OMC run up Sweep SB Zapper sj. AD j.B air B Fangs air A fangs xx 236236AB 3.4k - (corner) CH air hit 5A(A) 5C B fang(1) SBM 236236AB land dash Sweep SB Zapper xx 236236AB land dash sweep SB Raid(5) into Critical Shot 4.3k+ poison - (Near corner) D trap, j.B dj.B j.C SBM air B fangs air A Fangs land A fangs TC Sweep SB Zapper 214B SB B shot B fangs 214A SB C shot D Zapper 236236AB land dash Sweep SB Raid into Critical shot finish 5.7k + poison -(Near corner) Sweep A fang(1) SBM 236236AB land dash sweep A fangs SB B shot D zapper 236236AB x2 -(Corner) AOA D FC Sweep C Zapper delay 5C delay B fangs 5C D Zapper SBM 236236AB land dash Sweep SB Zapper xx 236236AB -(back to corner) SBM Raid~Critical shot (non CH) dash forward 5C 236236AB land dash Sweep SB Zapper 214B B shots x5 SB raid into the finisher. 5k+ poison - (near corner) D trap, j.B dj.B j.C SBM air B fangs, air A fangs, land A fangs TC Sweep, SB Zapper, 214B, SB B shot, B fangs SB C shot, D Zapper, 236236AB, land dash Sweep, SB Raid(3), Critical Shot finish 5.7k + poison dmg - (Corner,53 meter start) AOA D FC, Sweep, C Zapper, 5C, B fangs, 5C, D Zapper, SBM, SB Gun super, land dash Sweep, SB zapper, 236236AB x2 5.1k + poison -(back to corner) SBM SB Critical Shot FC, wait 2B, D Zapper, 214B, SB B shot, SB fang, D trap while still airborne, land A fang, 5C, D zapper, B fang, 5B, C/D zapper?, 214A~D to cancel recovery, sj. B fang, air A fang, land SB Raid(5?) SB critical shot finish 7.9k + poison (100% on sho) -(Midscreen) C trap CH, 5C IAD j.A j.C land 5C 214A~C shotsx5 SBM SB gun super x3 4.7k no poison -(Midscreen) 5AA 5C 5B Sweep SBM dash sweep SB zapper, microdash sj.AD j.B air B fangs, air A fangs TC, land 5A 5C, A fangs,TC Sweep, SB zapper, 236236AB -(midscreen) Fullscreen A shots SBM, Raid(1) OMC dash Sweep, SB zapper, dash sj.AD j.B air B fangs, air A fangs,TC land 5C, D Zapper, 214B, SB B shot, SB C shot, B fangs, SB raid(1-2) Critical shot finish 4.9k + poison. Killed at like 60%+ health -(near corner) 5C on air borne opponent, 5B, j.B j.C dj. J.B j.C, air B fang SBM, falling j.C, air A fang, land A fang, TC Sweep, SB zapper, 214B, SB B shot, SB C shot, SB gun super x 2, 4.5k + poison -(corner) j.B CH? J.C dj.C SBM air B fangs, air A fangs, land 5C, D Zapper 214B, SB B shot, SB fang, SB A shot, D zapper, 236236AB, 5k + poison (70% health) -(corner) j.C (blocked) rising j.A fuzzy(hit)!!! SBM falling j.B land sweep, SB zapper, 214B, SB B shot, SB A shot, SB fang, SB A shot, D zapper, 236236AB, Silence super, 3.7k + poison (did 50% on sho. Could have probably done SB gun super at the end for more dmg. This is really goddamn stupid) (anywhere) j.B j.C SBM air B fangs, air A fangs TC, microdash 5C, 214A, SB B shot, A fang TC, Sweep, SB zapper, 214B, SB C shot, SB raid(5) SB critical shot (Corner) Throw SBM (activate when she hits the opponent with the karate chop) D zapper, SB gun super, land dash Sweep, SB zapper, 236236AB x 2, 3.9k (60%+ dmg. Probably could have done dash sweep SB raid ender instead here for more dmg) (Corner) Throw SBM (same as above) short hop SB trap, land SB zapper, 214B, SB B shot, SB A shot, SB fang, SB A shot? (might be C), D zapper, 236236AB, 3.6k + poison (Corner) 5AA 5C Sweep C zapper SBM, sj. Air B fangs, air A fangs, land A fangs,TC Sweep, SB Zapper, 214B, SB B shot, B fang, SB C shot, 236236AB 3.7k + poison (Corner) 2A 5AA 5C 5B Sweep A fangs SBM land sweep SB zapper, 236236AB x3 3.9k + poison