Manta

His combo rate is better too? I thought the fact that his moves all hit so much harder and for better P2 was the cause of all of the damage we're seeing.

Is anyone being made out to be the low tier scrappy yet? Early days still I guess.

Don't die on me Tager forums! Let's talk about the now really heavily used 5A. Seems to be the move of choice after gadget finger.

I played GG beforehand, and here's what I found: Basic combos for any character were easier, most characters could work up the buttons like it was capcom and call it a combo in a way that doesn't work in BB. But the actual competitive combos that get the most out of your hits were considerably harder in GG and there was a much bigger emphasis on RC combos as opposed to Overdrives. Moves were generally quicker too so it made it much harder to keep up with the pace. Learning BB to a competitive level is also easier because the interface tells you more, you get precise damage values and heat gain when you practice, and the system of prorating combos is generally much easier to understand.

Thinking about it actually, there's more to VC -> 720 than you might expect. The default counter to 720 is jumping, but the default counter to VC is to aim low, which absolutely cannot be performed during a jump. The risk-reward is way skewed in the attacker's favour if he jumps, as he can just j.A into your head and catch your recovery or any hammer attempts. So meh.

Just got to watch out for any attempted brofists. The magnetism would make the world explode.

Because damage in hand is worth two damage in the bush.... or something.

I wonder if it's just worth listing any combo that builds 50 heat and can end with MTW as just that as the only option, because why wouldn't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ha7dB30M4KQ#t=83s New counterhit Bsledge combo: 236B (CH), (walk) 6B > 6C > j.2C, 5B > 5C > 623C, Egadget (Saw 2.7k but the egadget whiffed, so more like 3k) 3k No mag from what was once a bad combo starter.

Don't let it go to your head and start autopiloting. You're not invincible. Even CS1 Bang couldn't claim that.

So basically we now have the best of CT damage, the options of CS2 and also some vastly improved abare.

Yeah we could. It's hilarious. Also the RC gets paid for by the resultant combo. So lol. Doesn't this also mean that we can turn a magless combo into some good damage by something like: 5B > 3C > GF RC j.2C....

If you look, he only JUST manages to get the additional 50 heat before the MTW, thanks to the massive heat gain on 6C. Let's see: (mag) 5C > 6A > 2C > MTW, 3CAC, j.2C, 2B > 2C > AC, (GF) 6C > j.2C, 5B > 5C > SB, 6C > MTW > TB, 2B (GF) bounce trap I can't help but feel that 2B > 2C >AC couldn't been 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC instead, but yeah, it's very clear now that 5C is by far and away our best combo starter with its 1000/100/92 stats and high damage combo bridges. Combo doesn't even need a counterhit. Also, TB does 1050 minimum damage now? That implies that they raised the minimum damage to 30% because 1050/0.3 is equal to 3500 exactly, the current damage of TB.

Okay, so it's with your Back to corner: 2C (FC), 5C > AC, j.C, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6C, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 236A > 236A, j.2C 5B > 4D (4370) (51 heat gained after sledge connects, can't tell the actual total) Obviously the ender may be switched with a few different things, like 5B > 5C/3C > MTW [> TB], GF. Good magless damage that, particularly as it goes from the bad situation of having your back to the wall to both giving rape damage and your own corner oki.

Well quite. I was also pointing out that the level increase on 5B makes it even better. Currently you can IB the 5B and reversal. Rare, but possible.

Instead of mashing 5A, do 5A > 5B > 2B > 5B > 2B.... They have no choice but to block as it's an IB-proof blockstring. The only minor issue is that the 2B has fewer cancel options than 5B or 5A. Ultimately no worse off than CS2, you just need to learn to mash less. 5A has more than doubled in damage, increased in attack levels and has a slightly better P2, you can't really call that a nerf, particularly when you remember how powerful other non-mashable 5As can be (like Bang's or Hakumen's).

And doesn't last as long either.

4k 2D counter combo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=lCLJq0KI2YY#t=627s Notice that when Noel doesn't tech the 2D at the end, her body still slides along the floor towards tager a bit.

Observe the 2D here and the tech: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FVLDTxOgxe4#t=239s Notice how with the 2D alone, valkenhyn bounce techs towards tager. Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVLDTxOgxe4#t=5m10s Despite the 20% P2 on 360B, there's still some tomfoolery to be done as oki.

Actually, the theoretical damage from that combo is actually ~7.3k. The combo shown was done from a guard crush, which forces a 90% proration on the combo (With the exception of the minimum damage MTW +TB at the end).

There's always the 2C (FC), j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6A > AC, (j.C), j.B, 5C > 6C, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 5D method of doing things without mag. Not sure if the combo scaling would allow such a late 5C > 6C though.

Also has a ~4k meterless Combo on the entire cast on counterhit now. Taking the form 2D (CH), 3CAC fling.... Was also thinking that there's probably some really silly Fatal combos we can do now (Go Go gadget theory fighter): (Mag) 2C (FC), j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6C > j.2C, 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC, (AC), 3CAC fling, j.2C 5B > 5C > 5D And if you have sparkbolt and heat, you can replace the final 5D with: ...SB > 6C > MTW > TB

Nice, Might even find there's some combo options in the corner like ...3CAC fling, 2D, 5B > 5C 6A >623C.... You can do stuff similar to this in CS2 as it is, but it's fiddly as hell.

I agree with that. It's more a question of what's our ideal punish now if we manage to get ourselves a free combo (If we ever get a guard crush for example, like that will happen now). What's so special about 2D now?

I'm personally going to get more gratification from showing all those Noel players what a really long combo is.