DaiAndOh

2HS is underrated by several players I feel. It actually does beat some moves Venom's other AA's will not (such as air bridal). It also hits people crouching...sometimes you press 6P and they end up on the ground and 6P whiffs....

As far as pressure goes, it's pretty much a matter of you weren't close enough when you hit raw S, but were when you hit 5K. Pretty sure you don't instantly stop the moment you press a button, so the game would trigger the f.S rather than c.S the moment you press the button, when you weren't in range. For both, use training mode to get a better idea on how it may or may not trigger.

When you become the mod, you can tell who I can and can't sub!

How about a best time/day section of the doc for people looking to play matches?

Fino vs Maroshi(Potemkin), Otouto(I-No) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jAiJlZ240w#t=7m50s Fino vs Roi (Sol) Nakamura (Millia) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nm1uV0DZWh8#t=11m45s

30 minutes of Fino vs Mugen Sol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Y7E-wS2DNg

I'm really curious to see these faster ground normals myself actually! Interesting change of direction for him...

That much I can attest to. Only thought there was one of me before 0_o. Also joining us was 2GB Combo, Ryan Hunter, Sunfish, and a Canadian Venom Stuart. Also Fino said he'll try to make make time next year, when I sent him a picture of me with the Mikado crew :P

Fino vs Renkon (Chipp) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOSAwRLsFP4 Fino vs Jonio (Leo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOSAwRLsFP4#t=2m45s Fino vs Zadi (Sin) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3cI72UkqCw#t=4m47s Fino vs Sharon (Elphelt) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3cI72UkqCw#t=7m27s

Hohiko(Ramlethal) vs Keiichi(Venom) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx2ScEp7zeA#t=10m27s Keiichi(Venom) vs Taka(Slayer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M9Nmm7tFmo#t=5m34s Keiichi(Venom) vs T5M7(Leo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M9Nmm7tFmo#t=15m07s

Fino vs Nage (Faust) 2/3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTgbjgMfGWA Fino vs FAB (Potemkin) 2/3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVrW8Vl0T6A#t=15m25s

Incidentally, the dustloop frame data page had HS MS at -6, it was the guide page that had it wrong, again, sorry about the trouble. And yeah, GodPress is right. I wish we did have 1.1 frame data, but I have updated the guide with 1.1 descriptions.

Ok I just checked an additional source, and it has it at -6. Will update! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bLI6KFcuPKRMJydrWQSRS8OYJom-qq4XxJtyQp2YH7I/edit#gid=1031651675

This was...unexpected...vacation?

Should be right for that. It can get tricky to get the final hit on a standing character though? Hmmm

QV linking into itself is a bit character dependent. Haven't bothered to mess with specifics. Can't you just do it after any bnb knockdown into QV?

Usually in those mixups, Venom will block the DP when he baits it, while Sin can still cancel it. The only way off of K ball I can think off is if you hit a ball without advancing forward much, he dps and whiffs and you air dash in to punish him.

A lot of Chipp's normals are very fast and are strong on block (not to mention some good priority). 6K is a gap of course though. Rekka first hit is -1, Instant blocking that can help Venom get out, or attempt a counterpoke (beware of the 2nd Rekka in those cases). Teleports depending on which one can be 20-30 frames total. If he's using them up close during pressure, take that into consideration (as well as YRC... )

I'm not sure myself, but the best way is to test it frankly. It shouldn't take forever, just a few attempts in training mode (have the dummy as Venom rather than player character and record the setup). If done off a corner combo or full throw combo ending in QV (rather than the throw->5HS in this video) I think it should still work in theory at least. Since pushing your opponent into the corner then QVing won't change their positioning much if at all in 1.1.

Fino vs Samitto (Chipp) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2SNLZES0N4#t=10m58s Fino vs Kamego (Venom), OSCA (I-No), and Rion (Ky) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5uWVzupJHg Fino vs Ain (Ky) and Samitto (Chipp) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InDQaBWYq04#t=7m55s

Fino vs Samitto (Chipp) (2 games) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyipcNLES-Y#t=44m22s Fino vs Rion (Ky) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boVR4o8YYXA Fino vs Heppoko (Zato) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=835LolYJ5aI#t=4m31s Fino vs Nage (Faust) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGc2R2cmOb0#t=7m31s Fino vs Kiisha (Faust) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0crG6SYmCo

Oh yeah 236HS oki I could figure out is terrible with this because of how proximity OS behaves with counter. Sonic Boom is significantly worse but DEAD maybe an overstatement. That said, have fun continuing to do it on me!

Errr, could you explain the first? I see how it gets worse but dead? Not sure.

While true, still have to look out for the DP of course!

I wouldn't be surprised if they know already, this has been tweeted to them and the Japanese players are discussing it on twitter as well. Pachi also does follow a few JP players (notably, Nage and Ogawa, and I can guarantee the latter is talking about it on twitter) so he may know if it soon if not already through their discussions and posts...