DaiAndOh

If you get rejected, I believe the minimum attack is guaranteed unless you reject it back. Highest level of attack is not. Highest level is I believe +5 or so on block and startups up in 40-55 frames IIRC (character specific). Note that the allreject doesn't start until I think 13 Frames in, after the initial blitz and during blitz charge. That aspect is slightly weaker, as now low blitz can't reject mids. So a ball that's blitzed, you can go MAYBE go low if they don't reject you. Low reward though without meter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2DpcpVzyAo Fuzzy attacking mechanics video.

It doesn't auto reject during the attack startup itself. Can still throw them during the charge...buuuut....auto rejects during the charge state highs, mids, and lows...welp.

Oh you haven't seen Steve H travel out to big tournaments then. Running on top of tables and such :P.

Well I decide to look up some information on ol SBZ here. He is indeed Steve H's boy. Has played a fair amount of time if you can tell by the join date (as well as the 15 years thing he mentioned). And not bad at all from the little footage I saw (of Vanilla AC). Kinda makes me confused and sad to see you say such things really. Unfortunately, I'm told you don't travel outside of MD :(. Rather a shame, I would have liked to get that FT5 in, although it won't stop Hotashi though as he said above haha. Do you play in the Xanadu tournaments? Didn't see your name in any, do you use another name in those?? Also here's a nice youtube comment thread with him crapping on Ogawa and Machaboo's play from early Xrd (funny...they "grew up" to be EVO and Arc Revo champ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0oXvdQisws&lc=z13dwfqj1l2fvf3tx23lh52gorfzirfxg04 Now that's just ridiculous...but there's something to be respected about not caring I think.

PRC whiff punishing? Ok, 9 frame startup in Xrd, you whiff a DP and immediately PRC. Their frames are essentially doubled for an extended period of time. Let's say I did a ball set at Venom right outside your DP range. You took the bait and DP'd. Whoops! PRC'd immediately. You know...you're still on the ground! But because of the time slow, I can have about 20 frames, give or take of recovery. Just enough time to eat a counterhit Fafnir in the face. And if you are in the air...remember that nice trajectory changing move you got? Yup!

My favorite part is that I gave him a question where GG is the answer (dps on whiff), and he put in a different retort instead. Also Fuujin as well if that counts. Well I think with the little sleep I got, everything I had to say was covered. Nice work contributors.

You are making huge unreasonable differences to Sol. Why don't you give him a 12 inch dick while you're at it? Anyway: You heard WRONG about Revelator. What list are you taking about? Ramlethal was nerfed in Sign 1.0->1.1 though. Counterhit 2D can get you great reward as well. Check it: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=GGXRD/Sol_Badguy/Combos j.S can hit deeply as an air to ground. The Counterhit 2HS combos...I coulda sworn he has new ones in 1.1 with Double Bringer into Fafnir but those are still doing 50% meterless. Fafnir...you can already combo me almost halfway the distance to the corner. You good. Divekick: The startup is part of it. You're stalling time to bait their anti-airs. It adds elements of unpredictability. Your screw up with DP is that I blocked it instead of whiffing. Find me a game that lets you cancel a DP on whiff. I 6P Faust out of his f.S nearly a full screen away with Venom already. Hold that.

Allow me to seriously break this down, while the shitposting is a minimum. "Nerfs everyone else got" - False, only system mechanics changed in Revelator, and the addition of the new characters. Too early to tell any ranking changes. "Overrated by newcomers" - Perhaps if they rate him number 1. Several top players rank him between 3-5. "Outzoned easily" - he can get zoned but he has good speed and mobility and can work his way in. "Poor mixup" - Mediocre if anything. Command grab and high reward off it. Really good low options as well. "Midrange Neutral Issues" - He lacks pokes that have the midrange of a Ky or Johnny, but he's not a poking character and still has those tools work his way in. "Attacks are poor tools" - 5K is a 3 FRAME NORMAL THAT CAN ANTI-AIR. 2S has great recovery. 6P gives him good reward counterhit or corner and has the upperbody invincibility. 2D is fast and dodges a ton of attacks, good reward on counterhit. j.S and j.HS have amazing priority and hitboxes. "Execution" - Optimizing him can be rough on the execution, but practice up! Fighting games aren't easy. It's cool for advanced players that they have a high ceiling with this character. Easy to play hard to master! Riot Stamp - Was never great outside of niche uses. Was always a free hit in many situations. Basically you lost the FRC for YRC and a MUCH better reward on hit or block. Buffed in Xrd actually. Gunflame - Will lead to combos on counterhit and possibly meaty normal hit? Becomes plus on block if your opponent blocks it from distances. Not meant to be a zoning tool. 2HS - Actually didn't read, but it's more of an anticipatory anti-air. The reward off of counterhit is 2/3rds of your opponents HP. Bandit Revolver - Not bad at all if you're not overly predictable. The -3 is actually not too bad because of your 3 FRAME NORMAL and it becomes better if they crouch block for some reason. And it has startup invincibility because I don't know. j.P - Sure 5HS - Well the reward can still be really high on conterhit, and it's jump cancellable too. Tyrant Rave - Why are you doing the DI version if I'm super point blank? And on the regular version, many supers are not invincible, just ask Bedman and I-no. You have the best DP in the game for throw invincibility Fafnir - They nerfed this move from 1.0 to 1.1 for good reason. It's good as it is. More untech time? Geez. Fafnir is fine. j.D - Character specific combos have been a thing in GG forever. Vanilla AC Johnny players are playing the world's smallest violin for you. 5D - You and other characters with problematic mixup. Divekick - look up the advantage or disadvantage on block first. Aside from that, altering your mobility and air trajectory is HUGE and you can use YRC on top of that. 6HS - also covers good amount of veritcal space in that area, great counterhit reward, causes knockdown DPs - If you can get me to block it, you earned your cancel. If not, I baited it, let me get my punish. High risk move, you're completely invincible. Faust stuff: Sol and Faust are basically the same tier, agreed upon by I'm sure at least 80% of serious players. You want to give Sol all these buffs and Faust all these nerfs? Come on....

Fino vs Tanabata(Slayer), Koichi(I-No), Roi(Sol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFKpCkFerh4#t=4m00s Fino vs Gonzaburou(Faust), Jonio(Johnny), K(Sol) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmeDSzZgmc

Well yes, this is explained with slightly different language in the execution thread. A video would be much appreciated though, and I'd love to help you if you wish. I can't record these days unfortunately with my broken capture card.

Yes, you need to start your second charge immediately after pressing 8S. However, you might need to wait a few more frames (keep charging) before doing the second 8S

You can spend your burst on your cutscene super to enhance it. In Venom's case, Dark Angel does more damage and has startup invincibility, but Fino has also said he thinks it might be slower? That I'm not sure about.

My observations of Fino Rev footage: New blitz can be...a problem. Still have the projectile rejection aspect, and now holding it...on the upside though, if a ball is blitzed, it must be blitzed mid, so going low immediately can possibly catch people before they go into charge blitz, where all attacks will be blitzed. If you get rejected, but you have more meter, you can win a charge blitz war...it will be interesting to see how that meta develops. The projectile multi blitz/charge Blitz (not sure which) can reject Bishop Run Out... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Z62B2AgYE#t=14m17s Reversal Dark Angel was used once...like Fino told me, the opponent can use certain moves (invincible/low profile/maneuvering around) to get out. Still...I want to believe it can be effective if they're not planning their setup around it? We'll see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Z62B2AgYE#t=16m46s Oh and if it counts, I woke up to Ogawa tweeting how system mechanics keep destroying Venom....welp...

30 minutes of Fino Rev footage

I asked Fino on twitter if Burst Dark Angel is reversal. From what I can tell, he said yes, but it is situational and not a good option often... I theorized it would be strong even with ways to avoid it...we'll see. If Karl can provide some insight from what he's seen of it, would be cool. For reference: https://twitter.com/DaiAndOh1/status/638383149982986240

You know, I had pegged foot meaning lower body and not literally feet in this case...I see. A little sadder at my past performance, but a little wiser today.

Likely to be the last Japanese 1.1 match vids. However, with no character balance changes, Revelator vids are still quite relevant for viewing. Fino vs Koichi (I-No) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=212xnAORGHM 310 vs Sabamiso (BE) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6h8_MXEO-g#t=12m15s 50 minutes of Fino vs Sanma (LE) (his Leo is still 15 dan, no joke, check it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJxZQRQPra8

Hmmm I'm not too sure of testing because I'm not sure if my recording and my input are having the same timing. So just to be sure, you're sure that Chipp's frame 5 foot invincibility on 2D doesn't stuff Venom's 6 frame 2S. If so, will update as appropriate.

Hi, so incase people haven't read the note, Dustloop matchup section has changed. Please take matchup discussion to the new matchups forum. This will help us easily communicate more with people who play the opposing character, and you can find matchups easily using the stickied post in that thread.

Discuss the matchup here. So we never talked about the mirror in thread prior. After playing Ryan Hunter in my pool at EVO, the main point we discussed is: Shooting balls is not generally encouraged. This is because of QVs absorbtion properties. Not only could you be wasting balls, your opponent is getting stronger ones as well. When you're waking up against Venom, try to tell when blitz will cause a rejection state. Japanese top players were very proficient at this in my games against them at EVO, and landed blitz almost every time. We can apply that knowledge not only to making our own setups safe against blitz, but also in the mirror match.

Discuss the matchup here. Dumped info from the prior thread, person's name shows their contribution. Dai: If she doesn't approach right after notes, if you're far away you can use QV to negate them while summoning. Or you could try YRC the QV if it will whiff (time it so the ball lines up). Chemical Love YRC means you'll have to take her devasting mixup. Note that I-No's low options prorate more than her high ones. Stroke the big tree goes under 2S. Her reversal super does need some respect. 6P beats horizontal Chemical Love. I also don't recommend multi ball sets that go in a straight line - chemical love will destroy all projectiles it comes in contact with. Reversal super is throwable. Reversal 6P+6HS OS on your part may be a thing if she's going too high on her oki. I don't mind throwing out 6P's in midrange neutral, but if they like to STBT a lot, that loses viability. It's also a good move after blocking her initial mixup if she tries to dash back in or Chemical Love Be very wary of how you air tech, I-No players love to catch your techs with air throws (on top of her new command grab, she gets even more reward for doing it successfully). Sometimes, delaying the tech if you're becoming too predictable is the right answer.

Discuss the matchup here. Dumped info from the prior thread, person's name shows their contribution. Dai: Unless j.HS or j.S is very deep, 6P beats all of her air normals except j.2HS. For j.2HS, if you can tell which side it's going to be on as she does it, you might have time to forward dash out of the way if it wouldn't put you straight in the corner (no room to move). You can also Blitz it easily. But you'll have to hold it otherwise. If she's jumping straight towards you predictably, HS Carcass can put in the work. Sine: So since she is in the air alot, preemptive j.d can work in some cases and c.s and 6p and 6hs are your friends. I tend to just avoid dealing with j.hs altogether by being mobile on the ground (dashing, teleport ) .

Discuss the matchup here. Dumped info from the prior thread, person's name shows their contribution. SnowMonkeyFunky: 2S and 2D can mess with raw dandy stuff, but from a blockstring hitting buttons can be risky. D-D-Domo: His 2S beats our JH at pretty much at any height. His 5P is also a good anti-air. Anyways, make sure your oki is tight because he can backdash through it. He can backdash through a good chunk of our moves GodPress: Whilst he has strong frametraps that can and will turn into 200+ damage with meter, you can, in a lot of situations wait for the inevitable dandy and 2D(even better if you have meter to YRC in case things go south) it on reaction for the KD & oki setup, whilst he has BDC it doesn't change a massive amount of our oki game and in some cases adjusted for it (j.D BH is nice). Round start its relatively even you both have options to force momentum early, PB, Upkicks, 6P & Mappa for Slayer and Mad struggle, 2S & TK summon for Venom. His anti-air game is good with 2S beating a lot our air options and 5P > 6H CH leading into some huge upkicks damage near the corner. Staying on the ground or meeting air-to-air is advisable but if you find yourself in the situation where you are in the air blitz can be quite handy. In terms of your zoning game SH (optional P if there is time) to force slayer into the air and use J2K to navigate over the balls as he can't 6P through the ball travelling to the ground. Singular balls such as P set 5P allow Slayer to 6P right through them, not ideal if you're chasing up behind them, the solution to this is use SP if there is adequate time to set this up, otherwise stick to screen vertical screen coverage in my opinion. Be wary of your ball sets as he can and will punish your recovery with Mappa if you've miss spaced and that's not a situation you want to be in. Also, Slayers j.HS is no where near where it used to be in AC or #R, it is not the giant hitbox of impending doom it once was, don't be afraid to 6P or 2H it. His j.D on the other hand is pretty good. Dai: Footloose Journey YRC also helps him get in and punish summons from the midrange. TittyFofo: Neutral jump j.P, falling j.S has served me well as a round opener here. Good against stuff like Mappa and forward dash, and doesn't get hit by 6HS. Also gives you plenty of time to react to other crap like Dandy Stepping or 6P. Slayer doesn't really have any godlike aerials that I'd be overly concerned about, so shrug. Sine: I like this matchup alot. slayer has to take more risks than he would like to get in and when he does 2s stops alot of his dandy step and mappa pressure and leads to damage with meter. His IAD j.HS pressure can be 2HS'd. and HS stinger yrc gets alot of mileage in this matchup as in alot of other. Slayer has alot of frame traps though so it very important to know when to disrespect his stuff. Air ball set ONLY when you are SURE you have the space to so and not unnecessarily or without yrc (although not worth the meter in some situations) cause man, 6hs CH is never fun SnowMonkeyFunky: Fino showed off some good stuff to deal with Slayer's shenanigans. For example, unless DStep S got stealth nerfed in 1.1, you can IB (maybe regular block in some situations too?) it as long as it's not meaty and can backdash out of the S>H vs S>2K 50/50. His 2D and 6H "can" catch you, but at least you can force then to rely on more than the raw mixup. Dai: Also what I saw Fino doing was IBing the Dandy S, then either 2K or c.S to hit any attempts at It's Late or 2K. Not sure about it being a straight punish, but looks very useful.

Discuss the matchup here. Dumped info from the prior thread, person's name shows their contribution. Dai: Matchup is in Venom's favor. However, if you're not careful, you could die quickly! Watchout for Hammerfall YRC. It lets him approach with the one hit of armor and either Pot Buster or AA you. Venom deals with Hammerfall fairly well between gatlings, ball hits, and YRC. Use Venom's dash, backdash, and air summon to get around slidehead Flick is a thing so be sure to change ball speeds, poke him prematurely when you send balls slowly, and be careful when doing Carcass/Stinger pressure He takes all 3 hits crouching from Venom's c.S. Helpful for pressure, confirms, and combos! SnowMonkeyFunky: FS > 2S is a useful chain in neutral to keep reckless hamerfalls in check. Redefinition: (on Slidehead) He draws his arms back slightly and stands up straighter. It's kind of a weird looking move, just a matter of getting familiar with the animation. Obviously the answer is jump to avoid it, but in some ways if you're full screen vs Potemkin I like jumping a lot and setting a ball up high. Then if he slide heads on my way down, summon another ball. If he doesn't, summon one on the ground and repeat. Dai: TK summons and backdash are also quite useful for avoiding Slidehead. Note that QV cannot absorb the FDB projectile (and you'd probably eat a slidehead for your efforts anyway...) If Potemkin flicks a projectile, his recovery becomes invincible. dota_Nova: Pot can't flick supers. So no flicking bishop runout or dark angel. Dai: If he's flicking everything despite changing speeds/angles, it may be best to use the ball's existence as a threat and react to Potemkin. Don't forget of course about your poking and anti-air game, although 6P will not touch Megafist and j.D. (watch where Potemkin is relative to you). You can use Blitz or Goldburst to beat these.