SuperJ

i just want to see someone RC while the opponent's attack is still active and run into the hitbox

i thought you couldn't BS in blockstun though? really important difference i also wonder if [12[H+X]] xN will become a thing in the middle of a blockstring. lol

WELP. i guess i do have to explain myself now. the marketer-speak probably didn't help either. oops i feel the problem is these videos lack cohesion. you have the introductory blurb and then you have this info dump of "here's X move, here's Y mechanic." it doesn't matter if a character's buttons and specials are sorted into arbitrary categories like pokes and anti-airs. it really sounds like someone is reading a textbook or wikipedia article out loud. the information is undeniably applicable but it is presented like trivia. the introduction? great. the interludes where you're not explaining what buttons do and the narration actually complements the cool in-game footage? great! that's the sort of stuff you need more of. obviously, and you've probably stated at one point, these videos are not meant to be exhaustive or comprehensive. they're just to get people interested. if you're gonna direct further inquiries to dustloop, why is the info dump needed in the first place? if it's to shatter the illusion that guilty gear is too hard to play, then narrated textbooks are not a good solution. you need something more like dandy j's kof tutorial focus on cool shit. or tie the information together and explain how the parts make up the sum. since the latter takes too long, the former is the best option. don't half-ass either option. it's telling when your eddie bit v2 is like an hour long. i bet you would have been better off making a bunch of eddie v1s and combining them into one video i don't mean at all to shit on your efforts, and clearly your videos fill a previously empty niche. just my two cents

i was curious about the infinite blockstring part. i'm just using the ones i see in this video. 5a has 6f startup and 11f blockstun 2a has 7f startup and 11f blockstun 5b has 11f startup and 16f blockstun 2b has 10f startup and 13f blockstun 6a has 11f startup and 16f blockstun 5c has 14f startup IB decreases blockstun by 3f. this implies that 5A/2A - 5B/2B and 5B/2B - 5C is not airtight. this leaves 5a xN and [5b-6a] xN. if this can be done regardless of barrier pushback then there is a big fucking problem. of course god help you if you don't have a reversal anyways, frame data is your friend. continue

to really break through, these videos should feel more like comp sci lectures and less like narrated wikipedia sections on characters in one-cour animes. you need more presenter and less slide. figure these problems out and your impact should increase substantially.

show your work people chance of 7/3 advantage character winning a 2/3 set = (probability of winning in 2 games) + (probability of winning in 3 games) = (0.7 * 0.7) + 2 * (0.7 * 0.3) * 0.7 = 0.49 + 0.42 * 0.7 = 0.49 + 0.294 = 0.784 matchup scores should not be treated as per-round probabilities because they are not independent (bursts (ama beat me)) i have no interest in this statistics argument but i do have interest in correct math

watch. xrd drops, arcsys adds dlc characters, inevitably fucks up, and someone manages the gall to say: "why does this nigga get to use dlc but i don't get to use ex characters?" anyways, which is more likely to be better playtested, in quality and quantity: the core ensemble of characters you see at the loketest or some random dlc character you've never even seen in motion until release day? so it's no surprise that the power levels of dlc chars have a lot of variance. a prudent designer might make a new character intentionally weak, so the metagame is disturbed as little as possible. but more likely, something slips through their testing and then it's this shit again fighting games are ecosystems, and dlc are the invasive species. you're not playing the game plus an extra character, you are playing a different game entirely. what if honda was dlc in sf2? lol it's ironic. adding dlc is really no different from "patching" a game. yet the former is accepted and the latter is blasphemous. at least NRS is willing to adjust their beta tests after the fact (even if their games as a whole are beta tests). evidently arcsys is not, because if they haven't already nerfed koko to oblivion with this amount of feedback/whining, you shouldn't expect them to in the near future (that's the definition of insanity). so 1. dlc characters are likely to make the game as a whole dogshit or worse off. 2. arcsys adopts not full measures but half-measures in regards to dlc balance. i'm pretty ambivalent about this topic (it's pretty complicated!). while i think the aforementioned reasons are enough justification to ban dlc characters on principle, i think a banning mentality is toxic to the value of self-improvement, which is the most important thing of all. it's a lose-lose scenario, but allowing dlc characters, and therefore kokonoe, is the way to go. and if bbcp IS dogshit because of kokonoe? get used to playing bad games. MBAs don't give a fuck about your opinions on game design. the only way to prevent brokonoe situations is to shun dlc altogether but that is not happening in my lifetime

did jonio stop commentating the mikado streams recently? this other commentator is murdering me with the play by plays

silly defensive training regimen partially inspired by this very useful post go into training mode, set the opponent to order sol, and set the dummy to maniac CPU and lvl2 fix charge level. start blocking. - when hos jumps or iads into you, react with air throw - when you are not in range to air throw, AA normal - react block 5D and 2H - when the opponent is out of 2D range (or can't 2D) and performing a blockstring, block high. react to charge cancel by going low the primary purpose of this is to practice air throwing, using hos's aggressive jump. might as well practice your high/low defense too! 5D is doable. 2H is a bit difficult because of the subtle animation. i can't react to bandit revolver to save my life so that's where the last bullet point comes into play. i guess hard mode would be reverting to AC because of the faster dusts even if you can't react to all this shit at once, and i know i can't, this sort of training teaches you to watch the tennis ball (your opponent). this can't possibly be a bad thing. obviously this isn't a silver bullet. the real thing is better than the fake thing; the CPU almost never fafnirs and does not threaten you with three-way GB mixups; purely reactive play is super exploitable; etc. but if you have a vita and you're bored on the commute give it a try

just go saturday, there's a GU tournament. i'm guessing hella people from CT and the greater MA region will come through. i can't make it though

i think you're right. this is related to the earlier j.D spiel but it almost feels like there is more than 1f of recovery when you don't land a jump-in as deep as possible, regardless if the move has landing recovery or not. i was messing around with slayer. i can combo shallow j.K -> 236P easy as tweeting if i use the macro glitch (!), but it's a complete bitch to time manually. i almost suspect you have to perfectly time the special cancel on the first frame of landing or else you're stuck for a few more frames. i dunno, this engine is really showing its age anyways, i think we should complain about how stupid slidehead frc is. lol and if Xrd keeps the timestop and possible-on-whiff properties, it could potentially be busted in that game too. confirm the hit and convert (timestop) or punish their invincible action and/or force them to RC back

the only other way to erase landing recovery iirc is to double-jump interestingly, since youzansen got brought up, i wonder if people try to do their YZSs higher in the air (as opposed to asap)? that way, you can make the opponent guess if you're going to RC and, when you don't, double jump and erase YZS recovery also i tested and j.D recovery is not cancellable. tried ky (very noticable) and i-no (41236S gave me nothing, whereas i'd get j.236S if i'm still airborne)

you can block immediately after landing though :| especially noticeable when you land during the middle of an attack that vertically shrinks your hurtbox gg frame data is also listed such that the total startup equals the 1st active frame. so 7f startup = has 6 startup frames and hits on frame 7 here's something related and interesting: if you do a jumping attack that connects exactly on the last airborne frame, your landing recovery (e.g. from j.D) is ignored, and you can cancel the normal into a grounded special! if you have hase timing you could do bullshit like FDC j.K, c.S-6P with i-no

actually, since it looks suspiciously like 2h, i wonder if it also has 2h properties (feet invincible)? pretty cheap if so

anyone got room for one at the holiday inn? i'd rather not book if i can help it. 99% sure i'm bringing a monitor if that's any useful PM me!

this sounds like AC. fwiw slayer's j.H got nerfed pretty hard in +R. you can hit his legs during the active frames. should be able to 6p it no problem. depending on timing you may trade because slayer still has godlike hurtbox during startup frames edit: i forgot i made this earlier. should be pretty accurate

re: p1 vs. p2 side discrepancies - interestingly, i feel these problems are amplified by joysticks. ask all the players that can't ewgf on p1 side lol. over the past couple of years i've transitioned to a wineglass grip for player side neutrality. i digress though re: iad technique - i also let the stick spring to neutral; iad isn't a problem for me on stick. that example wasn't the best :/ however, i sometimes have problems where the spring overshoots (i hate my stick). like in other games if i crouch for an instant sometimes i get jump because the stick springs from 2 to 8 when i let go. i'd rather have a stick technique that is tolerant to variances in stiffness. i can just practice this away though re: ib technique - i agree with the idea (minimizing motion), but i also feel this tends to produce the problem manta described (i thought i was holding X direction but really it was Y), at least for square gates. there's the whole variable stick problem too. these aren't problems for you i suppose? i still want to test run pad, but thumb strain is a definite concern. how do pad players handle extended sets? edit: this is relevant but veering off-topic, but for those that lap their sticks, there is one more subtle problem that pads don't suffer from. depending on the orientation/angle/perpendicularity of your stick, you can sometimes overshoot (tiger knee when the stick is slanted downwards away from you) or undershoot (getting 23 instead of 236 because of the stick's angle). while i'm in this thread, i wonder how you guys deal with this problem (short of finding a bench)?

this is gonna sound funny, but i am seriously considering switching from stick to pad (!) for gg. lots of words incoming from my personal experience and from skimming this thread, the only true advantages of stick over pad are as follows: - platform agnostic (xbox, playstation, arcade...) - logical button layout; better buttons - thumbs are more susceptible to injury to be fair, i find these reasons compelling enough to prefer stick. but is inputting motions objectively easier on stick? i'm not entirely convinced. for example, consider the iad motion: 6956. on a stick, you are actively driving the stick from 6 to 9 and back, whereas on a pad you nudge in the up direction and then let go. for this input a stick requires effectively three motions (6 -> 9, 9 -> 5, 5 -> 6), whereas pad only needs two motions (because the 9 -> 5 is free). in essence, these sort of motions are easier on pad. this has multiple implications: - instant blocking is easier (121 is really annoying on stick) - air throws are easier (96H is really annoying on stick) i'm not sure about the first statement, but i'm convinced about the second and imo this is enough of a reason to play pad in gg specifically, since i don't play eddie or justice. additionally, i suspect the force and distance necessary to switch input directions on a pad (1 to 4) makes for quicker reaction to overheads, again since it's easier to let go than to push, but i'm not sure if this is significant. it's also possible i'm not gosu enough with stick to be able to use the stick's tendency to return to neutral in a way that parallels "letting go" on pad. or maybe i should just practice alternating directional inputs more. but then i could just play pad lol anyways, would other pad players be able to confirm/deny my suspicions? or am i just full of shit

in the previous batch of loketest vids i saw slayer do forward dash into 2s, as if it were a jc'd special. so i'm curious about the nitty gritties of slayer's (and bedman's) dashes... - does bdc/fdc still confer invincibility to specials? - can you cancel his forward dash into normals or anything else (fd, roman cancel...)? - the travel distance appeared to have increased considerably from xx. confirm / deny? - does the dash still travel a fixed distance or is there a limit on how far you can dash through an opponent? the closest analogy i can think of is valentine scalpel in skullgirls. lol - how does bedman's dashes compare to all this? obviously the other important question is do two ch pilebunkers = dizzy :| and a couple of more general questions: - does xrd have bb-style input buffers? where you hold down a button and the input repeats for X frames? - does blitz shield override os throw input? also an observation from today's batch of loketest vids: slayer's j.k looks like #r style i.e. super laggy on whiff. i'm guessing the rest of his air normals are like that

i've matched that number. hopefully the job is finished by the 3rd loketest

to prove the above statements in 2 minutes: go to training mode and play johnny vs. aba. do 2D(1) xx upcoin. if you don't do anything else, the coin hits but if you meaty aba (3H), the coin whiffs! what happened to loketest guy? if he still hasn't gotten new equipment and is getting a 60fps camera i'd love to chip in

@reaver: it's true fighting games, particularly GG, usually can't be broken down to "follow these simple steps/rules." a so-called intermediate player might tell you "never ever jump forward in SF." this behavior is not as obviously exploitable as "always jump when you get the chance", but both are equally crippling mindsets in a genre that demands situational awareness and calculated risks. but there's the rub. if fighting game mastery cannot be gained by purchasing a dvd and following simple steps and rules, how is it attained? as you've hinted and as far as i can tell it is, above all, iterative logic. it builds upon itself. it's a potentially infinite series of "X doesn't work because Y, therefore Z." no one gains such a set of reactions overnight; no one reaches the pinnacle in years. in particular, situational reactions are more difficult than simple reactions and it is easier to freeze in indecision or react in panic. even if out of 30 choices, only 2 or 3 are correct or viable, how does a beginner deduce this? it's true you can "teach" someone by not explictly teaching him. maybe after the beatdowns, if he's talented, he'll indeed figure it out. if this someone exists in your community you should thank your lucky stars! but, and i am not calling you out, if someone's method of teaching consists of telling others to just "figure it out", that person has failed as a teacher. you should not override someone's perspective with your own, but you can most definitely share it! you shouldn't x-copy what daigo appears to be doing, but it certainly doesn't hurt to know what's going on in his head. it almost always helps. it's the difference between telling someone the answer to a puzzle and showing how you can arrive to it. in the end the only thing that matters are results so yes, kusoru's style is not wrong, your style is not wrong, my style is not wrong. i think we're in agreement that the sort of players who parrot things like "always never do these moves" even when they lose to those moves are the sort that dismisses perspective, hampers creativity, and stunts the growth of their own scene (i personally feel this is a huge problem in the fgc). but why not save others the trouble of reinventing the wheel? why assume that every player is able to think "obviously this didn't work because my opponent responds like that, so i'll try this instead" and that from the get go he instinctively knows what to try or has a high abuse threshold? addiction to spoon-feeding is a real risk, and in this sense you can determine if someone is not cut out for fighting games, but then again so is quitting because of lack of guidance and unless you're playing with terrible human beings the former isn't necessarily a bad or irreparable outcome which brings me to my final point. from my experience beginners need a foundation that works, otherwise they quit from frustration (GG is a frustrating game). i feel it is the responsibility of the teacher to show the beginner what works. it doesn't have to, nor should it be the one way, but it can be an X from which the Y's and Z's follow. which brings me to neutral game... @qwerty: it's true marvel players worth their salt should easily keep up with GG's pace. it's also interesting you notice these players often plateauing. so there must be some obstacle or something that's halting their progress. again, i feel that it must be related to understanding of neutral and that this problem extends to all anime games, but if you believe there's another root cause i wouldn't mind hearing it. to ground this conversation back on the growth of the anime scene at large, bbcp is super fun and there is a massive opportunity when the game comes stateside. so i guess this is addressed to everybody but does BB, as an anime game, suffer the same accessibility stigmas as GG? i'm late to the party so i dunno. if so, whatever reasons you cite for GG not actually being that hard should also apply to BB and if not, it'd still be worthwhile for those looking at GG specifically. @others: if a game has air combos, then that game's combos are automatically more difficult than street fighter combos. and it's not like you have to use links in street fighter because if we're talking optimized damage, especially off random confirms, then anime games are unquestionably harder, no contest. imo

i mostly agree with you on the SF/GG analogues. i also agree that, fundamentally, air neutral follows the same thought processes as ground neutral (don't whiff, force incorrect reactions, etc) "air neutral" is the keyword though. what does a neutral jump entail in SF? it's relatively safe and forces the opponent to commit to gain ground, but you do not gain ground yourself. whereas in GG, you can iad for initiative, dj.9 if they're watching for airdash or if anti-airing is awkward at that angle, wait and see with dj.8 or sj.8 as you've said, threaten low air dash/land and run if they're giving you too much respect (and delay your double jump if you expect them to react), air dash backward to make space, land quickly, or stay on top of someone running at you, and so on. of course this is guilty gear so you have to deal with faust/may j.h and kire tatami and air stun edge frc and fd cancels and kliff overheads and all that all of this is in addition to your ground game. if you can remain aware of your neutral options wherever you are on the screen, awesome! but to expect a beginner to process or intuit all this shit, all the possible interactions that result from having highly rewarding and relatively safer air options, is asking for a lot imo. i never said not whiffing didn't apply to anime games. lol it's interesting that you say prospective players should be "ready to deal with complexity of that kind" because i've seen people say things like "you should play guilty gear because it's actually an easy game"

here's my take as someone coming from a non-airdasher background. anime games are not intuitive street fighter is intuitive. don't whiff. make your opponent whiff. at a base level how are these goals accomplished? walk and jump. of course these goals apply to pretty much every fighter in existence but how do anime games compare? walk, run, double jump, super jump, air dash at arbitrary heights, etc etc it's relatively clear what's going wrong when you keep jumping into a dp or walking into a sweep. it's relatively clear that your sweep and your low fierce keep the opponent's walking and jumping in check. basic offense and defense that work at all levels of play. what about anime games? "how do i stop you from jumping at me?" "press this button." "but then you jump again and i get hit!" "don't press buttons." pfffft not only is it easier in street fighter to show someone what works, it is easier to see why something is working. you know that part in zelda where the old man says "it's dangerous to go alone, take this"? that sword is always going to be useful. basic footsies can be taught quickly and is always going to be useful in street fighter. what's the equivalent in anime games? why isn't there an anime footsies handbook? as others have mentioned, a piecemeal education is pretty much worthless. i think for players to stick around with anime games, they need some sort of big picture or set of fundamentals that isn't "do 100 different things in 100 different situations." homework is inevitable (beginners aren't gonna iad successfully the first time), but what is possible imo is to minimize and focus the homework so that the beginner can more quickly get to a level where they can just play without knowing a bunch of minutiae or feeling helpless in neutral being able to put movement theory in words would be a good start. although honestly i think new players should start off with or get better at street fighter but that probably isn't a pc answer on dustloop

i'll be at game over with cp tonight~ you know i'm telling the truth because of the tilde