shinquickman

I'm bored and there isn't any action in the GG boards (unless you count that 'Are we done with GG?' bit, which is good for lolz), so let's just make a topic about a rebalancing AC. Like the BB thread with the same name, or those ::insert character here:: wishlist threads, but for GG and clumped into one. As balanced as this game is, there are some glaringly obvious facepalm-inducing gimmicks some characters have (or may lack). So everyone, let's here it: What does it take to make AC balanced? List whatever character you feel needs balancing, and also keep in mind how some changes might affect certain matchups. Just one rule: NO NEW MOVES. Top tier to Bottom tier Eddie: -No more stun damage from 6P. He deals high enough damage as it stands. -FB Drill has a wait time where you can't do another FB drill afterwords until a couple of frames (2 full seconds maybe). Just some way to stop repeatable FB drills. Repeat FB drill deals high damage, and makes it too easy for Eddie to get back the dog. Testament: -Forward Beast has a later attack frame. Still the same 2F startup, only making it harder for Testament to trade and get some random counterhit into a loop, and harder to keep people locked down when Testament has no tension. If this isn't enough, Forced Prorate 85%. -1 hit Badlands has less tech time. Some way to take out the knockdown, but keep a little comboability afterwards. ~Backwads Beast does not turn opponents the other way when hit or on block, but still pulls in closer to Testament. This is to prevent those silly instances like Potemkin reflecting the opposite direction (and may even help Potemkin in the matchup). Slayer: -IMO the biggest problem with him is the CH Dead on Time (the big punch OD) into 80%+ damage. Prorate 80% could fix that (forced prorate perhaps) -Vulnerable to followup combos after Chipp's standing grab somehow Baiken: -Ouren (superman) techable (even on CH), reduced guard stun so that it's punishable even on normal block, FRC when she lands. If you want a safe autoguard that hits near across the screen, you have to spend the meter! Jam: -vulnerable to followup combos after Chipp's standing grab somehow. Makes the matchup a little more tolerable for Chipp. -Puffballs force prorate 90%. Not a significant decrease in damage. Potemkin: -Slidehead has less knockdown time. Enough that you can't get a combo after a full distance hammer break. -Heat knuckle gains significantly less tension. Wall loop is still possible, but it's much harder to do. This would help in the matches he does too well in, but would make him even worse against zoning characters, so +Gauntlet is fully grab inv.. Has an FRC. This will help A LOT vs Eddie (his worst matchup). Venom: dunno May: -j.H prorates 85%. So May can still deal damage off of it, only now it' in the 30-40% range and not the 50-80% range. I think this would especially help in the Anji and I-no matchup +3K has 3F low profile like in XX/, travels a little further. -No more FRC. A little compensation. May would be outright terrible vs zoning characters with the above debuff. And I think this could help against Moroha ABA as well (May's worst matchup). Axl: Dunno Ky: Keep the same. Baiken is a problem for Ky, but the above nerf may save this match. Venom is also a bad match, but I don't know how to fix that. Sol: Keep the same. May has a noticeable advantage but with the above change, he may be fine. Robo-Ky: dunno Zappa: Keep the same. He's supposedly bad against Testament, but the above changes to him may save this matchup. Millia: dunno Faust: Dunno Order-Sol: Dunno Dizzy: Dunno Anji: +All his low autoguard moves have more guard point time. Autoguarding lows even with more active time is damn hard since most lows are quick so this wouldn't do much. +3P has an FRC point. -Prorate 80%. This would be GREAT against Baiken and ok against Jam since butterflies are near useless against them, and just another good tool for Anji on anyone else. Proration is there as to not make overhead Shin RC combos completely obsolete. Chipp: Make 6K more like the XX version. -No longer an overhead. +In air state on 1F (so effectively grab inv). Much faster start up. On normal block, keeps Chipp on 0F advantage. Has an FRC point before the active frame; leaves Chipp in the air only long enough for j.D or any moves with equal or less startup to activate. Still prorates and still slides on CH. Personally, Chipp isn't as good in mixup as he should be when an opponent's in the corner. +Grab leaves opponent on the ground longer. No proration on followup. This change is exclusively for the Potemkin matchup, since you can only followup on him after a grab. Longer time is to make the follow up easier (but only a little, by a frame or 2). +When doing a shuriken, your momentum is slowed down and then continues normally, rather than stopping then continuing. This will help even more vs Potemkin than anyone else, since Potemkin is Chipp's worst matchup. +DP has more untech time. Just enough so that you can follow up after an FRC on a normal hit vs any opponent on the ground. These changes are geared more towards making Chipp more contendable against his bad matches (of which he has several). Also note the changes to Jam and Slayer. I-no: Dunno Bridget: Dunno Johnny: Oh yeah this guy needs some things alright. +The second hit of 3H pulls in. Johnny could then do some little mixup afterwards like mist cancel grab, low mist finer, etc. Cause we all know Johnny is lacking in the mixup department. People may learn to SB the second hit eventually, but Johnny could then Mist cancel the first hit or cancel to coin and cause even more mixup. +ground version of Killer joker has more reach. Just enough to hit most crouching characters. This is so that Johnny gets a universial 50% meter 50% damage coinless combo (5K>5H> Mist stance Jackhound, 5K(JI)>5H>KJ into air combo). +More grab reach. Honestly, I don't know why they reduced his grab reach since XX. This is a guy with 0 momentum. Personally, I think all this guy needs is reliable 50% damage on all the cast, but he also needs the 3H pull to help him against those annoying zoning characters.

S: So, ky a: In, jo, po b ja, sl, ma, an, ba, te, mi, ax, fa, ch, ve c: Za, ed, br, ab d: Di, ho e: Ro

Justice is just all sorts of cheese. Kliff, eh, I think is underpowered to be honest. All in all, I don't think there are any hard facts per say that state Justice and Kliff are broken. They're just not played in tournies because they're not in the arcade version.

Not just throws. When I get May's Whale OD in training mode with normal Guard gauge, it deals 100 dmg. When I increase the Guard gauge a bit, it deals a little more damage (about 115).

Truth be told. God is actually an off screen Faust the size of a galaxy.

^Bad link.

Maybe the Elite unit could be one of those mobile suite guys you see in the Zepp stage during the original XX... or better yet, the Elite unit could be Potemkin RIDING a mobile suite!

Late response, but... GGX mode characters deal more damage (or have different damage scaling), as well as take the least amount of damage of all the Generations mode. However, they have an off-the-ground teching vulnerability. Whenever a GGX mode char takes multiple hits OTGed, the OTG becomes untechable (meaning, Johnny can screw over a GGX char big time). Now to FDC, you have to chain into sweep, and then immediately cancel sweep into Faultless defense. The easiest way to do this is to hold P+K before doing sweep, then press 1D. So with Sol, for example, you might do something like: 5K[P+K]>2H>1D (FDC) I personally find it extremely annoying to do.

Mmm... potato ramen...

At least you have infinite super, so you can just 'Tyrant!' RC 'Tyrant!' RC 'Tyrant!' etc. Anji's story is just mind-numbing. Your second fight is Gold Boss I-no, you're jump sealed, and you take damage before the fight starts? ::sigh::

^Yup, as long as there's wake up backdash, it'll never be completely unavoidable.

Wait, so people are actually going to PZ?

Editted due to inconsistencies. I've noticed some time ago that if you run and do 22D right in front of Pot, you will warp IN FRONT instead of from behind. Now if you FRC, your momentum will have you land behind him. Do this with j.H, and you have a quick crossover/overhead oki setup. Works great for baiting buster/grab wakeups, and screws up the input for anything else they can do on wakeup (reversal backdash, hammerfall, Gauntlet, etc). It costs more tension than a crossover FDC oki setup, but it's still got potential! So the input is: run-in 22D FRC, j.H Naturally, you wanna FRC w. PKS to slide over on H. This ONLY works if you're dead in front of Pot, and you MUST have a running start. Side note: This trick works on Faust as well (somewhat) IMO: the best use for this is to bait buster/grabs on oki against grab-happy Pots, or to disable Pots from backdashing since jump-in FDC oki can't really bait grabs and will only prevent backdashes 50% of the time. Otherwise, you can just stick to FDC crossovers and do this trick once in a while to throw a Pot's game off.

Is this AC EX Zappa, or AC+ EX Zappa we're talking about here? 'Cause AC EX Zappa's pretty stupid. Raoh's j.H bounces on hit, AND can cancel into itself. Spam that move alone, and you got an easy mode infinite.

^Actually, Ved's guess is right. All chars have a landing lag after jumping that can be cancelled into anything except jumping, walking, dashing, backdashing etc.

Version 01-28-09 ::blows dust off:: Woah this thread is in need of a little brushing up. I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this combo: the 2D>VHSD frc combos. when you go for j.2H okizeme, I think it's fairly practical since you no longer need to add 2P to hit confirm and to give you extra charge time. On average, these combos deal an extra 10 damage, and I think some of these are easier to land than the FB dolphin combo on some chars. Note: the following combos MUST be started from a jump-in or some means to JI or JI preserve. So, you can't do these if you double jump or air dash. Also, there are many, MANY more variations to these combos. I am listing the ones I feel are more optimal damage wise and execution wise. All of them are guaranteed knockdowns unless otherwise stated. Out of brevity, I'll just list the combos as Type A or Type B. Chars which you can do Type A combos: PO, SL, ED(less damaging), TE, VE(difficult), CH(difficult) Chars which you can do Type B combos: (Everyone on type A list, and) JA, BR, SO(tricky), OR(tricky), MI, IN(difficult), AN(difficult), MA(?), AX(tricky), BA, FA(difficult), ZA Impossible:AB, DI, KY, RO, JO Type A combos always starts like: jump-in j.2H[2], land 2D>VHSD FRC, AD j.S>j.H[2] land whatever Try to do your air dash and j.S as early as possible, or else you land too early and j.S won't link to j.H. Type B combos always start like: jump-in j.2H[2], land 2D>VHSD FRC, AD j.S(slightly delayed)>j.K(slightly delayed)[2], land VSD whatever You have to time your j.S>j.K so that you land exactly after your j.K connects. The timing may be kinda tricky at first, but it's possible. For every chars, the more optimal combo is listed above. vs. Pot: -Type A, VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD vs. Testament: -Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (sometimes, the 2P is ommitable if launched high enough. Guaranteed knockdown if you time the 2P later) Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>VHSD Type A, VSD, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land c.S>5H>VHSD (extremely spacing dependent. The opponent's gotta be dead in the corner) vs. Eddie: -Type B, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land 2P>c.S>5H[2]>VHSD (same as Testament) -Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>[2]c.S>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD* Italicezed part is only possible if Eddie is launched high enough. Either way, guaranteed knockdown. -Type A, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD. More Damaging. Guaranteed knockdown.Extremely space specific. vs. Slayer Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (exactly like on Testament) Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P[2]>VHSD (less damaging and trickier to do than Type A. skip it) vs. Venom Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S>5H[2]>VHSD (knockdown not always guaranteed. Seem to have a 50% knockdown) Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S>5H[2]>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (tricky, j.H sometimes launches too high) vs. Chipp Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>VHSD (if high enough, you can replace 2P with c.S>5H) Type A, VSD[2], land 5P VSD, land 5P>c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (difficult. Chipp techs too often) Type A, VSD, land c.S>5H[2]>VSD, land c.S>5H>VHSD (lands more than Testament, but still butt hard) vs. Jam and Bridget Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 5P>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD (whole lotta dolphins!) vs. Sol, O-Sol, Axl, and Faust Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2]. land 2P>VSD (Kinda weird to land on these guys. I say just stick to the old FB dolphin B&B. On Axl, possible to replace 2P with c.S>5H>VHSD if high enough) vs. Millia and I-No Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (difficult on I-no. 2D>VHSD chain often misses on her) vs. Anji and Zappa Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD, land 2P>c.S[2]>5H>VHSD (difficult on Anji. 2D>VHSD often misses on him) vs. Baiken Type B, land c.S[2]>5H>VSD[2], land 2P>VSD[2], land 2P>VHSD.

^Five Iron Frenzy- One Girl Army. I think the song is far too short though... So anyway, does anyone know if the slide head dodging glitch for May still work in the arcade ver of AC?

Chipp's DAA is anything but impotent. It easily makes the top 3 DAA along w/ Potemkin and Slayer. You probably won't see Chipp do it much though cause he's got less costly options to escape pressure (Beta Blade FRC).

They're just trying to keep American Spamboys outta their site... wait, I speak Spanish. FUCK ENGLISH!

I unno about Paradigm's overall tier. It's so hard to find a match vid online w/ Paradigm ever winning...

And so was Jesus's birthday... which also means it's Toki's birthday.

I guess Chipp won't be the first Ninja to become president: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFX-dKpcDz8 So sorry for the crap post. Back to work!

I don't wanna cram this thread with useless fanfic stuff, but, I think it would be cool if in the next GG, Ky gets the hang of using his Thunderseal to cause time distortion and is able to repower his Thunderseal when necessary. Sorta like what he did on The Maiden. Anywho... I know a fair amount of the music theory allusions they used in GG2, but to be honest, I think it would only muddle what little we know about Magical theories...