VR-Raiden

Use this thread to discuss the Elizabeth matchup.Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly as Ken rather than who is at advantage/disadvantage.This post will be updated as info arises. Round Start:... Neutral:... Offense:... Defense:... Punishes: On Block: ...On Reaction:... Character Specific Notes: Combos: ...Mixups:...

Use this thread to discuss the Chie Satonaka matchup.Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly as Ken rather than who is at advantage/disadvantage.This post will be updated as info arises. Round Start:... Neutral:... Offense:... Defense:... Punishes: On Block: ...On Reaction:... Character Specific Notes: Combos: ...Mixups:...

Use this thread to discuss the Akihiko Sanada matchup.Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly as Ken rather than who is at advantage/disadvantage.This post will be updated as info arises. Round Start:... Neutral:... Offense:... Defense:... Punishes:On Block: ...On Reaction:... Character Specific Notes:Combos: ...Mixups:...

Use this thread to discuss the Aigis matchup.Please focus more heavily on discussing how to play the matchup properly as Ken rather than who is at advantage/disadvantage.This post will be updated as info arises. Round Start:... Neutral:... Offense:... Defense:... Punishes:On Block: ...On Reaction:... Character Specific Notes:Combos: ...Mixups:...

That's awesome, always good to hear confirmation on things, thanks! Knowing that 2D GV 5K connects, wouldn't be surprised if that's useful in midscreen to corner combos starting within DI.

If you'd like to contribute, please feel free to do so! Just link the video along with the time that Ken appears in the video, and I'll update this post with that video. If a suitable title for the video is available please list with it. Listings are going new to old, and with the Ken players name on the left side always. Please refrain from going off topic in this thread. This thread is for posting of videos only. Notable Players Kubo [??th Dan] Twitter: @kubo0055 Name 2 [??th Dan] Twitter: @??? Name 3 [??th Dan] Twitter: @??? Name 4 [??th Dan] Twitter: @??? Misc Videos Collapsed: Tutorial Videos: - Collapsed: Combo Videos: - [08/28/2014] P4U2 1.1 Ken Amada Day 1 Combos - [08/28/2014] Persona 4 Ultimax - Ken 5A Combos - [08/30/2014] P4U2 Basic Ken BnB (Meterless, Midscreen/Corner) - [08/30/2014] P4U2 Ken Basic Combos - [08/30/2014] P4U2 1.1 - Ken Combos - [08/31/2014] Ken Amada & Koromaru combos (day 1) - [09/01/2014] ken stuff - [09/01/2014] Persona 4 Ultimax - Shadow Ken Combos - [09/03/2014] Persona 4 Arena 2 Ken Safe Jumps - [09/03/2014] Persona 4 Arena 2 Ken Side Swap Combo - [09/03/2014] P4AU Ken Side Swap 2 - [09/03/2014] Persona 4 Ultimax - Ken 2A+B 3.6k Meterless Combo - [09/04/2014] Persona 4 Ultimax - Ken/S.Ken Combo Video - [09/04/2014] P4U2 1.1 - Ken Side Swap Combo Option - [09/04/2014] P4U2: Ken Safejump Tests 1 - [09/04/2014] P4U2: Ken Fuzzy j.2B Tests 1 - [09/05/2014] P4AU2 1.1 : Ken Amada Basic Combos #1 - [09/05/2014] P4U2 1.1 - Ken Meaty Oki Theory? - [09/06/2014] P4U2 Ken Combos - [09/07/2014] Ken Amada & Koromaru Intermediate Combo Movie (nicovideo) - [09/09/2014] More Ken Combos Match VideosVs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. KEN [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. MARGARET [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. MARIE [11/14/2014] Kubo vs Masao https://www.youtube....m13_VPA&t=0m37s Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. RISE [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bMVkU_sf6M&list=UUigXphTRJdzpFoStm13_VPA&t=21m41s [Notes] Vs. TOHRU ADACHI [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes] Vs. [00/00/2014] Player 1 (XX) Vs. Player 2 (XX) [Notes]

Looking to improve your Ken? Post match footage of yourself in this thread for feedback from other Ken players.

Have a question regarding Ken? Feel free to ask in this thread for an answer!This first post will be updated with a FAQ section once more info is available to help prevent redundant questions.Before asking a question, please take a moment to see if you can find the answer in the below FAQ or on the Dustloop Ken Amada Wiki.

Information If you'd like to contribute, please feel free to do so! Just post the combos you created, but please write them properly. If you are unsure on how to write combos properly, then read the wiki page here. Make sure to read the Notation Used section in this post so that you understand the specific notations used for Ken. Also refrain from using move names and abbreviations. Please refrain from going off topic in this thread. This thread is for posting of combos only. Only combos that have a practical purpose will be listed in this thread. Collapsed: General Notations Used: [table] >Gatling/cancel the previous move into the following move. ,Link the previous move into the following move. |>After landing. jJump sjSuper Jump hHop hcHop Cancel adAir Dash iadInstant Air Dash jcJump Cancel sjcSuper Jump Cancel dcDash Cancel OMCOne More! Cancel AoA~CAll Out Attack into C ender AoA~DAll Out Attack into D ender CHCounter Hit FCFatal Counter [ ]Hold Input (N)Attack must deal N amount of hits. [???] xNRepeat ??? N amount of times.[/table] Collapsed: Guide Specific Notations Used: Notations in red are for prefixes only. Notations in blue are for suffixes only. [table] c.The attack must be used as close to the opponent as possible. f.The attack must be used as far away from the opponent as possible. [sS]Side Swap combo [CO]Crouching Opponent [AA]Anti-air or Air-to-Air [RP]Roll Punish [sD]Shadow Only Combo [N%]Player SP % required before combo start. [N/N%]Damage/SP Gain %[/table] Challenge Mode Combos[collapse] Mission #01 - [/collapse] Mid-screen Koromaru Immediately Available Combos for when Koromaru is usable at any moment after starting a combo, and combos starting with a Koromaru hit. [collapse] - 2A > 2B > (5B) > 5C > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2292-2612 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. Only include 5B if 2A+B will reach. - 2A > 2B > (5B) > 5C > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236D > 236B~A > 236D > 236236B/214214B = ~3500 / ~3900 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214B). - 2A > 2B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > 236B > 2B(JC) > fj.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run B+D > 236236A = ~3700 / 4000 damage. Requires 50SP (and.Awakening with 214214A). Alternate version with more corner carry, and for extending damage with extra resources if it brings into corner. - 5A > 2B/5B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2526-2872 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. - 5A > 2B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > 236B > 2B(JC) > fj.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run 5B > B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~4200 / ~4600 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). - far 5A > 5B > 236A~A > 236D > 236B > 2B(JC) > nj.B(input 236C immediately after) > j.2B > 236C hits(twice) > 236A~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2847 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - far 5A > 5B > 236A~A > 236D > 236B > 2B(JC) > fj.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run 5B > B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~3800 / ~4200 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). - 2B > 5B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > 236B > 2B(JC) > nj.B(input 236C immediately after) > j.2B > 236C hits(twice) > 236A~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = ~3700 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - 2B > 5B > 5C > 2A+B > 236A~A > 236D > 236B > 2B(JC) > fj.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~4700 / ~5100 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). - far 5B > 236A~A > 236D > 236B > 2B(JC) > nj.B(input 236C immediately after) > j.2B > 236C hits(twice) > 236A~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2962 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - far 5B > (see far 5A combo 2) = ~4000 / ~4400 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). - air hit j.A(1) > j.B(JC) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run 2A+B > 236A~A > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 3012 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - air hit j.A(1) > ... = - anti-air 2B > ... = ... - anti-air 2B > ... = ... - AoA~D > 236A~A > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = ~2500 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Works on non-FC. Exact damage varies with number of AoA hits. - AoA~D(FC) > 236A~A/B > 236D > 236B > 2B > fj.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediatey after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~4200 / 4600 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). - CH B+D > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2487-2687 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. - CH B+D > (see Throw combo 2) = ~3700 / ~4000 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214B). - CH B+D > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > 236B > 2B > fj.A(2)(input 236D during first hit) > j.2B > 236D hits > B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~3800 / ~4100 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). Alternate version with more corner carry, and for extending damage with extra resources if it brings into corner. - Throw > dash 5B > 236A(input 236C during 2nd hit) > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 1998 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - Throw > dash 5B > 236A~A/B > 236D > 236B~A > 236D > 236236B/214214B = ~3300 / ~3600 damage. Requires 50 SP (and Awakening with 214214B). Easier with ~A but less damage. - CH Air Throw > 5B > 236A(input 236C during 2nd hit) > 236C hits > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2318 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - CH Air Throw > (see Throw combo 2) = ~3600 / ~4000 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214B). [/collapse] Koromaru Delayed Availability Combos for when Koromaru is in recovery or not in position at the start of a combo, but is usable midway through. [collapse] - 2A > 2B > 5B > 236A~A(input 214D immediately after) > meaty 214D = 1403 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki, but will land from dash jump at about max 2A range. - 2A > ... = ... - crouch/CH 2B/5B > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > run 2A+B > 236B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 3283 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - crouch/CH 2B/5B > 2A+B > 236A > 236C > run 2A+B > 236B > 236D > run 2B(JC) > fj.A(1) > j.B(JC) > j.A(1) > j.B(input 236D immediately after) > j.2B > 236D hits > run B+D > 236236A/214214A = ~4900 / ~5300 damage. Requires 50SP (and Awakening with 214214A). [/collapse] Koromaru Not Available Combos for when Koromaru is knocked out or off-screen during the combo. [collapse] - 2A > 2B > 5B > 236A~A = 1403 damage. - 2A > 2B > 5B > 236A~A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 1710 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Paralyzes, making it extra hard punish healing. B version is susceptible to very fast long range attacks (tested with Narukami 236236A+B). - 5A > 2B > 5B > 236A~A = 1648 damage. - 5A > 2B > 5B > 236A~A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 2032 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Paralyzes, making it extra hard punish healing. B version is susceptible to very fast long range attacks (tested with Narukami 236236A+B). - far 5A > 5B > 236A~A = 1254 damage. - far 5A > 5B > 236A~A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 1619 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Paralyzes, making it extra hard punish healing. B version is susceptible to very fast long range attacks (tested with Narukami 236236A+B). - 2B/5B > 5B/2B > 236A~A = 1655-1801 damage. 2B and 5B are interchangeable, but cannot be repeated. - 2B/5B > 5B/2B > 236A~A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 2020-2185 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Paralyzes, making it extra hard punish healing. B version is susceptible to very fast long range attacks (tested with Narukami 236236A+B). - far 5B > 236A~A = 1285 damage. - far 5B > 236A~A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 1669 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Paralyzes, making it extra hard punish healing. B version is susceptible to very fast long range attacks (tested with Narukami 236236A+B). - AoA~D > 236A~B = ~2400 damage. Works on non-FC. Exact damage varies with number of AoA hits. - AoA~D > 214A/B/A+B = ~1700 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Works on non-FC. Exact damage varies with number of AoA hits. B version leaves you at slight disadvantage. - AoA~D > 236A~B > 214A/A+B = ~2300 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Works on non-FC. Exact damage varies with number of AoA hits. Leaves you at slight disadvantage. - CH B+D > 2A+B > 236A~B = 2116 damage. - CH B+D > 2A+B > 214A/B/A+B = 1479 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. A/A+B version leave you at slight advantage, B version slight disadvantage. - Throw > dash 5B > 236A~B = 1837 damage. - Throw > dash 5B > 236A~B > 214A/A+B = 1837 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Leaves you at slight disadvantage. - CH Air Throw > dash 2B > j.A(2) > j.B(JC) > j.A(1) > j.B > j.2B = 2263 damage. - CH Air Throw > Throw > dash 5B > 236A~B > 214A/A+B = 2157 damage. Safe point to heal Koromaru. Leaves you at slight disadvantage. [/collapse] Koromaru Returning Combos for when Koromaru returns from off-screen with 5C or 5D during the combo. [collapse] - 2A(input 5C immediately after) > 2B/5B > 5C hits > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2185-2612 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. - 2A > ... = ... - 5A(input 5C immediately after) > 2B/5B > 5C hits > 2A+B > 236A~A/B > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2541-2857 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. - 5A > ... = ... - far 5A > ... = ... - far 5A > ... = ... - 2B > ... = ... - 2B > ... = ... - far 5B > ... = ... - far 5B > ... = ... - AoA~D > ... = ... - AoA~D > ... = ... - CH B+D > 2A+B(input 5D immediately after) > 236A~A/B > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2487-2687 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. Easier with ~A but slightly less damage. - CH B+D > ... = ... - Throw(input 5D immediately after) > dash 5B > 236A(input 236C during 2nd hit) > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 1998 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - Throw > ... = ... - CH Air Throw(C+D input re-summons) > 5B > 236A(input 236C during 2nd hit) > 236C > 236B~A(input 214C immediately after) > meaty 214C = 2318 damage. Goes into meaty 214C oki. - CH Air Throw > ... = ... [/collapse] --- Near-Corner Koromaru Immediately Available Combos for when Koromaru is usable at any moment after starting a combo, and combos starting with a Koromaru hit. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Delayed Availability Combos for when Koromaru is in recovery or not in position at the start of a combo, but is usable midway through. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Not Available Combos for when Koromaru is knocked out or off-screen during the combo. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Returning Combos for when Koromaru returns from off-screen with 5C or 5D during the combo. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] --- CornerKoromaru Immediately Available Combos for when Koromaru is usable at any moment after starting a combo, and combos starting with a Koromaru hit. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Delayed Availability Combos for when Koromaru is in recovery or not in position at the start of a combo, but is usable midway through. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Not Available Combos for when Koromaru is knocked out or off-screen during the combo. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse] Koromaru Returning Combos for when Koromaru returns from off-screen with 5C or 5D during the combo. [collapse] - starter > = ... - starter > = ... [/collapse]

Noticed something about DI GV, we had been suspecting you could link 5K after it in corner based off this old clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5JWypA_lcI&t=55m20s Seeing this recent DI GV (also on Millia) makes it look not possible, she's clearly lower than in the first example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBt_Odvdn0&t=12m16s It's most likely due to the number of GV hits affecting gravity. 19 hits vs 22 hits. Theoretically it would be best to do as little GV hits as needed to take them into corner to link a 5K (if possible at all).

On second thought I'm skipping out on this monthly, already going to Summer Jam the next weekend and not feeling up to drive that much back to back right now.

Yes, one of them haha. I'm currently looking for a co-mod and have asked about it. The general process seems to be people who are already mods are appointed if possible, and if the position can't be filled by any, new ones are considered. Still waiting to hear if any current mods are really interested. If I don't have anyone by the time this drops, I'd be happy to recommend someone from in here who is already expressing interest and a desire to do forum work. Main reasons I want a co-mod: for times like next weekend where I can't do work, and because once Xrd drops my duties with that will skyrocket. I'll keep you all posted. As for creating threads, I would say leave that to the mod(s), since they have proper templates to match other forums. I've been waiting on those to be finalized, and to get a co-mod before making threads. However if me or my co-mod somehow fail to have threads ready by the time people have their hands on the game, feel free to make any and we can edit as necessary. I and others planning to play Ken definitely appreciate all the info gathered in here already so thanks for that. Looking forward to talking Ken tech with you all and helping make his forum/wiki top notch

The effort was definitely appreciated, but just wanted to mention, apparently ASW shut down that hitbox viewer...might be wise to take them off to avoid any issues

That's unfortunate to hear about his 2B, though I wonder how 2C works as another anti-air option when Koromaru is nearby. I'm downloading it too (assuming region free) but I won't actually have much time with him til after that weekend, Summer Jam just had to be then Looking forward to hearing what everyone finds. I've been wondering if he will have any fuzzy guard setups.

GV is good for combos when they don't have burst or won't gain it during the combo, and acting as a low profile (low profiles at frame 1). Combo example: 5K > 5H > GV. Does most meterless midscreen damage and corner carry off close ground hits like that. Stuff > 2D > GV works on lighter characters like Ramlethal, and I think that is not punishable by the opponent whiffing burst since they're higher up. EDIT: came across this nice WT combo while catching up on vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6f7f5i5O-QM&t=28m36s WT > GF > dash j.D > falling j.D > Fafnir > dash 6P > 2H > j.D > Kudakero > 6P > BR

623A can be CS on block, actually, just tried it to be sure. I don't see much reason in ever doing that though.

Check chainshift.com, very cool site which seems to have a ton of vids collected on it.

The mizuumi wiki has 3 practical midscreen 6B combos. From a closer hit you can break 3K. I do think 6B is better that 5B in almost every way so it is a more likely starter, but if it's a punish situation that doesn't matter really. http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Under_Night_In-Birth/Hyde#Combos

I guess you mean air hit j.6C? I haven't looked at it all that much myself, but usually if it's normal hit I would just run up and 214B>4B>4B and that's the best I'd get. They can tech pretty quick after it on normal hit and if you hit it higher up I don't think you can do delay rekka stuff. If it hits CH on the other hand, you have time to run up and let them fall a bit, then 5C to delay B rekkas (or just go straight to rekkas) since I don't think they can air tech it on CH.

The trick to it is inputting the 66 shortly before you even land, and press C upon landing. I think if you try to input 66C right when you land it's too slow. The 66C needs to come out asap upon landing. I added those 3C combos to the wiki, and there's a good amount written out for Offense section too now. Have something to add or disagree with anything, feel free to post up.

The only thing you can delay significantly after seems to be 2C. There's a little written up on blockstrings on the mizuumi wiki now, but it's not complete. It's pretty much what everyone's been saying. By the way, if anyone wants to help with the wiki I encourage you to make an account and do so. I'm pretty slow with updates now for a variety of reasons.

GG monthly on the 23rd right? who's going?

Not yet (that I know of), but the mizuumi wiki page should be a good list eventually. Right now, there's a few on there and worthwhile combos are being added slowly. There are more on the wikia page (lots of irrelevant ones if I recall but nice for comparison purposes) http://in-birth.wikia.com/wiki/Hyde_(Gameplay). Combo vids linked in early posts have lots too. His combos are pretty simple once you get a handle on what routes you can do when, which for now will take some looking around.

Here is some tech Grover shared with me, when using Orb for frame traps you can option-select so that Dark Lotus comes out on block and Chain Shift on hit. It's most useful in corner where gaining meter from GRD after the CS can lead to significant damage. Input is 236A/B~A+D~236A+D. Or you can do 236A/B~5D~236A+D if you prefer, but A+D~236A+D is simpler. You can 236A/B~236A+D if the orb connects very close, otherwise the time between 5D inputs is too long. Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pse3ND9t3_U

Yeah 6B is easily one of his best moves. Only drawback is if you manage to whiff it somehow it's got a lot of recovery. 3C is wonky as an anti air I'm noticing too. I get hit out of it a lot. Seems like it's only great for hitting them very high up otherwise you tend to lose or trade to stuff. 623B way more reliable for opponents already coming down on you it seems. As for comboing off very high vertical hits, I think the best you can get is 3C > 623B, or 623A to an EXS if it hit a bit lower. That is, unless you confirmed it was CH.