VR-Raiden

ohh 214B > j.214B. Maybe you posted that once a while ago and I forgot. I thought if they got hit you lost pretty much any good oki options afterwards, so that changes my opinion of it a bit. I still don't like the idea of being forced to 5A, or block within throw range, but I can see what you're saying. I did remember you can safely do jump in mix-ups if they're in blockstun from it. Anyways I'll look forward to a vid.

How exactly do you combo to 5D oki from a hit involving j.D? A big reason I didn't like it was because I didn't think you could do that.

It pretty much is. Using j.D limits your combo options after it if you land a hit, and "mix-ups" after it are pretty bad. You have to meaty 5A or they can just jump/roll out. You can throw, but that loses to jumping. Both of these options lose to reversals, and you're in throw range if you decide to block. It's just too much of a guessing game, you have much better options after just j.2A by itself.

Alright I didn't notice you said corner in your post. What I was saying was if you time it exactly right after sweep the enemy can't delay tech through 5D(3). So if you can get this timing, there is no reason not to go for 5D(3) from a sweep that hits relatively close (like from 5B/2B, ground 214B, 2C, air hit CH 5A/2B) But now I'm realizing they can delay tech through 5D(3) if the sweep hit very far, like it does in some corner combos (If I'm wrong about this, I would be pretty happy). And yeah, if you end with j.214B they can always delay tech through 5D. Anyways, about your corner B+D solutions, I'm trying to make sense of what you posted. I dunno what you mean by some of your notations. Pretty sure I get what you're trying to say though. It doesn't hurt I guess, but I don't believe it's worth mentioning how to counter certain characters doing a B+D through 5D, since it simply won't work if you just jump in while blocking, then attack once you see that they blocked. Unless you've been talking about them mashing B+D in general during 5D pressure, and not just through the 5D(2)? Characters you need to worry about are Yu, and Akihiko, as you clearly realize, since they have air unblockable ones that hit you if you come down too low as they reversal, which can happen a lot in corner. Yosuke can also mess you up, after sweep you just need to jump immediately then his B+D won't hit you. If you dash in too far before jumping it will catch you. After j.214B you don't have time to jump, so you have to block and see if they did it. And obviously Teddie is the biggest problem since you can't do shit to punish his. I'm not sure why Shadow Labrys' is giving you issues, I'll try it out but I'm not seeing it being any more of a problem than others in my head.

Beat_By-X, I haven't done much testing on all that yet, but SKD recently mentioned there is a timing after 2A+B to get the 3 hit 5D that will still hit them OTG for not teching immediately. It's very specific timing but it is possible (very slight delay). If you get 3 hit 5D oki, you have more time to begin your mix-ups, so from what I understand you can actually wait to see if they reversal'd, then jump in and start mix-ups. This is pretty huge for the Mitsuru match-up since she has the option of reversal Bufudyne when you jump in. Even if you miss the 3 hit 5D oki timing, and they delay tech through it, you can still safe j.B and have your 5DD ready to use. So it's actually not that bad if they delay tech through it theoretically. I need to try this out more though.

hmm max damage from midscreen 5D > empty jump 2A for 100SP+OMB? 2A > 2B > 5B > 5DD > 214B > 214D(1) > CS > 2B > 5C (OMB) > 5D > dash 2A+B > 214A > 5DD > 5B > j.B+D > Ziodyne - (5035) This one is stronger (and easier) than the one I knew of before: 2A 2B 5B 5DD 214B dash 236C OMB dash CS 2B 5C j.B j.BB j.B j.C Ziodyne - (4876) made this too, add-on to the other 2A vid. I didn't know about the above combo when I put this up unfortunately. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYUS-Xx6Gu0

Holy crap, just trying this now and it makes it ridiculously easier. Didn't realize you could input 5DD so early, thanks!

It better. I'm thinking you can probably CH air throw him in that situation though if you react quick enough.

Not gonna lie, that combo is difficult, you have to time the sweep properly (which may be character specific timing?) then input everything asap. And you don't want to be dropping a combo you use your burst for. But it does add a good chunk of damage. The easy-mode alternative (which I usually go for in matches currently) is omitting the 2A+B and just doing OMB > 5D > dash 5B > 5DD > 214B, etc. Or what Tong posted where you do the 2A+B earlier.

Not exactly the same, but using the same idea, these were posted in the Mitsuru matchup forum for possible DP punishes: Midscreen: air hit CH 2B > 214D(1) > CS > 2B > 5C > j.B > j.BB > j.B > j.C > j.214A - (4191, +Ziodyne 5102) Yu near corner: air hit CH 2B > 214D(1) > CS > 2B(1) > 5B > j.C > j.214B > 5D - (3373) air hit CH 2B > 214D(1) > CS > 2B > 5B > j.C > j.214B > 2B > j.C > j.214A > 5AAA / CS - (4916 / 5716) Doing 214B on its own and confirming into 214D sounds a bit unlikely, since people don't normally get hit with it as a normal ground hit. and if it was a fatal counter you could do better by dash doing 5C > 214A > CS. but yeah it does get more damage than other options midscreen for the same requirements. I'm glad you posted that though, since it made me realize a combo I hadn't seen or thought of for a hit during midscreen 5D pressure. Example: empty jump 2A > 2B > 5B > 5DD > 214B > 214D(1) > CS > 2B > 5C > j.B > j.BB > j.B > j.B+D - (3505, +Ziodyne 4416) - more damage than midscreen, empty jump 2A > Ziodyne combo, and a lot more if you have 100 meter, which is common in awakening. Does about as much as a 50SP+OMB 2A combo, using Awakening and 100SP instead. Unfortunately I couldn't get it to work on Yukiko for some reason, but I'm getting it on everyone else. Then there's CH throw > 214D(2) > CS, which I'm getting on Chie, it's probably more character specific. I just remember hearing about it working on Chie, if anyone knows more details on that feel free to share.

I'll try to add a list of beginner combos, and either rearrange how combos are listed or make it more clear. I added a few notes already on the purpose of certain combos (including 5b 214c, did that yesterday). I'll add that to more. As for the 5a combo, dunno if you saw my post in the q&a thread but ill fix that next, omitting the 5b is a solution. I'll start noting what changes i make when in the first post.

Well there's SP gain on lots of moves that needs to be added (exciting I know) if you want to do that. Fixed that according to SKD's post, put it as 13+5. I'm also noticing the air versions of 214A/B/A+B have the same SD as ground versions, which obviously isn't true. So for now I'm going to blank those out, and just note in the description that they're unsafe, or negative depending on when they connect. EDIT: Can somebody verify this, I'm finding that 5AAA and 2C forward dash cancels are both -6 on normal block. I'm not 100% sure my way of testing the frames is accurate.

Yeah man it was fun, GGs. I'm gonna do my best to make it, even if it has to be only Saturday that I can go.

Since we've been getting more discussion going on the wiki lately, I figured I would make a thread dedicated to wiki discussion like many other character forums have. Post any suggestions, issues, questions, or whatever else related to the wiki in here. Yu Narukami Wiki Recently I've started adding more info to the descriptions of his normals. I plan to update some more combos and the Offense section soon. Revision History: 2/17/13 - updated Post-5D j.B, 2A, fuzzy j.A with airdash combos - added j.214A+B OMB combo - description to 5D(2) vs 5D(3), added to non-tech solution 2/13/13 - updated FC 236D, 2C, AoA 2/10/13 - added Post-5D combos for 214A, other side 2A, cross up 5DD 2/10/13 - added Post-5D combos for 214A, other side 2A, cross up 5DD 2/9/13 - updated C+D/j.C+D combos, added j.C+D combos 2/6/13 - reorganized Post-5D combos - stronger 5B 5C 214D (OMC) combo added - updated 214A, 5D, 5C, replaced 214214C with Cross Slash - added character specific combos section - added some throw OMB combos, more to come later 2/5/13 - updated 214A, CH j.2A, Post-5D 2A - added comments to 5D setups, placeholder for 5D(2) vs 5D(3) section 2/4/13 - Attack descriptions: fixed typo, updated j.D description - added Cross Slash to safe-jump j.B setups - added corner 5A, 2A combos ending in j.D - added/updated Post-5D j.B/2A combos - added/updated Post-5D fuzzy fj.A combos 2/3/13 - added j.D Okizeme section - added j.D combos section with combos - new air hit 2B combos added, updated existing ones - updated 5B/5C OMB combos - updated CH C+D 1/28/13 - added opponent doesn't tech solution description, comments on mix-ups 1/26/13 - notes to make midscreen 5B OMB combo more clear, added stronger 5C OMB - updated same side 2A: replaced OMB combo with more stable one, added new OMB combo 1/25/13 - added safe-jump setups, 5D setups, descriptions - rearranged combos 1/24/13 - Added hyperlinks to Dustloop threads. - Rearranged combos. Still a work in progress but I think it's better. Now you can see all combos for each starter in the same place instead of needing to scroll for screen position. Currently I just put notes for combos that require corner but this will probably be organized better somehow soon (suggestions welcome). - Added a beginner combo list instead of bolding ones in the actual list. - Updated 214A combos. - Added mix-ups. - Realized there's still lots of dumb combos, will be working on that soon. - The overview at the top could use some updating too, will work on that. 1/23/13 - Added blockstrings explanations to Offense section. - Added placeholders for mix-ups. - Added note that some beginner combos are in bold in the Combos Summary description. 1/22/13 - Replaced 5A with more practical combo. Old combo required closest possible range 5A hit. 5A > 5C > 2B > 5B > 2A+B > 5D (1399) is now 5A > 5AA > 5B > 2B > 2A+B > 5D - (1147) - Completed adding descriptions to all attacks. - Added description to Tutorial Video section and Combos Summary section. - Added anti-air CH 5A combo. air hit CH 5A > delay 2A+B > 5D - (572)

I'll be there!

Cool thanks. I'm planning to expand on what I put for offense too. I can see what you're saying about the 5A combo, most likely at the time I just listed the max possible damage into 5D, and wasn't taking practicality into account. I think that only works if you're super in their face, like from a dash, but I'll try it again and adjust it. And yes as Tong said, 5B > 214C is for max range 5B where 5C will not reach. It's definitely worth knowing, since you can safe jB after it as SKD said. It's not the easiest thing to hit confirm in the world but it's not too bad. Same idea with CH 5B > 2C, good from max range 5B. It's also a pretty good string whether you confirm it hit or not, and if it did you can dash cancel into a safe jB + huuuge corner carry. Yeah I'll try to add notes to certain combos, and spell out when they should be used if needed.

Lame...so new move is combo-only material again? Reminds me of BE (outside of AA punishes or whatever other rare occasion) Same for me. I could only do it if I was 100% focused on it, never really practiced it. Probably finally will now though.

I'll be there, looking forward to it.

GGs Mynus, KBHMVP, PinkuSugoivisor. I need to stop doing horrible rage bursts vs Naoto

Most are up to date, some probably need to be updated. I've been periodically contributing to the list, and just left that video in for reference since it was already there. But as you say it is a very outdated vid so maybe it's not doing any good being there. I tried to list realistic combos for oki and damage, depending on how much meter you have and whether you're in awakening or not. Feel free to mention any combos you think should be updated or added/removed on the list, and someone can update it (I would if nobody did it by the time I get around to it). off the top of my head, FC 236D probably needs work, I haven't prioritized that since it's so rare to even hit that. and I was actually trying combos from CH 5DD just now, for when you use it as throw bait or to punish certain B+D (like Yosuke), so I may add some for that soon. hmm looking it all over now, it doesn't even have any cross under CS stuff, so that should be added too. EDIT: I will put explanations down for the Offense and Defense sections soon, unless someone else really wants to. Don't think I'm the best at explaining things but it would be nice if those sections weren't left blank.

GGs recently to Thai_My_Shoes, nobinger3, Psyken, PandaKing EX, SuzukaJanJan, Rei

I like this idea. I'm planning to come play P4 at Starland on the 27th.

You should try the shoryuken thread too http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/virginia-tech-roanoke-thread.5013/page-191 I was in Blacksburg until last summer and we had a few players still around, but I don't know the exact situation there now. We do games in Roanoke sometimes though. What games are you trying to play? also Civil War 5 is confirmed for April 19-21, I will be posting a tournament thread for it once details are finalized. There will be P4A, GG, and BB tournaments.

I dunno...kicking people really hard repeatedly does look fun... I was sorta considering maining him too, but I doubt I will now. Unless I find him THAT much more fun. I'll at least sub him.

As for spacing 5D, yeah it depends on the combo you did, usually it will be farther from higher damaging ground combos since you're doing more moves. The most important thing is you recognize how far they are when you do it so you can react accordingly when going for jump after 5D. Like Shinsyn said if they choose not to tech you need to be ready to reset into oki, if you're closer this may mean needing to air turn. And similarly if they tech and block you want to know where you're going to land for your mix ups. In general you're gonna be at dash jump range, normal jump range, or closer so you will land behind them. You can choose to go behind by dashing a little longer though from far. No worries there's no such thing as dumb questions here. He has quite a few uses for his EX moves, less so for EX Zio though. I rarely use EX Zio but it can be used in the Aigis match up if you anticipate/react to her doing 2B from a range at which you couldn't roll through and punish, or didn't have meter for Ziodyne. Since it's 2 hits it will pass through her 2B bullet and paralyze her. Another situation I can think of is vs another Narukami, if you predict a Zio and you throw a EX Zio it will pass through and hit him. And then there's some stylish combos you can use it for too, one of which SKD posted recently in the video thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrAGb_7GQTo EX slide is good every once in a while. It's unsafe if you cant OMC though so don't abuse it. They can punish if you whiff it too but since it goes so far and recovers at the speed of the C slide, you can get away with it whiffing more. It can catch people off guard since it's so fast and hits fullscreen pretty quick. It can go under things like Naoto bullets, Mitsuru drills, Liz beams. Also has use in certain combos, like the last ones shown in that same vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrAGb_7GQTo and you can use it for Chie specific combos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5dm1bo1oGk EX dive has the most practical uses, its 4 frames faster than 214A so it's a pretty quick overhead at 21 frames. It gets even better with the air version which hits in 17, do that after a jump move for an unexpected extra overhead. If you do it low enough to the ground in the corner, you can link 5A and combo from it. Here's a recently posted a vid related to that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLQgU3qHQ8Y And there's probably other applications I didn't mention so feel free to add any.