lofo

I only played this matchup a little bit so my memory is a bit hazy. If you're somewhat close and he does H EXE beast without FRC, drill can blow through it if you're quick. It'll also blow through S EXE beast at that range but why would he even do that, lol. If he's farther away and does a S EXE beast, you can't really reach him with drill in time to hit him out of the startup, and the EXE beast will hit you during the drill hits and give him full combo, bleh. I don't remember how I dealt with that, but my instinct is dashjump j.S or IAD j.S to smack him while he's open and to get far enough from the EXE beast that it doesn't combo break. f.S strangely does not break webs in this matchup. j.S and j.P get the job done well, though.

GGs all, let's figure something out for that ranbat idea. :3

So I'd noticed some weird interactions before but only yesterday did I properly confirm them. Kliff's backwards walk has a wide window where it goes over slidehead. You can't do it at the last moment, it's not a "reversal", but it's quite doable in matches. You need to be fair enough away that the slidehead doesn't put you into a block animation, then start holding back when you just see his head droop. Since "walk back" has no whiff animation, unlike say 5K, you have plenty of time to punish if you're in range with f.S, perhaps into reflex roar FRC combo. It's also safe even if you misread because then it's just a block. If you're a bit closer, 6H also goes over slidehead if done very late, and punishes to boot! Please don't ask why I was pressing 6H during slidehead in the first place. On the subject of 214P~P, since I tested that. On level 2 slip recovery it barely combos into throw without a CH, with a CH it's easy. On level 3 slip recovery it won't combo into throw even on CH. SO if they're good at mashing, you do really need to RC to make it work. Fortunately RCing it can net you a good combo. Oh, also I posted some combos that might be useful here http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthread.php?17053-R-Kliff-Combo-Thread&p=1569493&viewfull=1#post1569493

Somewhat to pochp, the more I play, the more I feel j.P is actually pretty amazing. No extended hurtbox. This is a pretty big deal, because j.S and j.H both make Kliff's hurtbox really big, and that sucks when there are fireballs flying around or whatever. (Looking at you, gunflame!) Very fast to whiff, so it's pretty low risk when combined with the above. If I don't have anything in particular to do during a rising jump, I just hit j.P because why not? Remember to OS it with throw for extra "why not" factor. Deceptively big. In comparison to Kliff's other stuff it might seem small, but actually it reaches pretty far, and on a diagonal jump the narrowness of it doesn't end up mattering really. Controls space pretty well and beats other chars' air-to-airs. Mashable. Seriously, don't care about anything. Confirms straight into j.S for real combo. You know how Venom can hit j.Ps then do a combo into a nice knockdown? This is even better if you have meter for D-roar. A confirm like j.PS-SH D-roar plunge does respectable damage and gives you all the momentum you could want. No proration. That confirm above actually does MORE damage than the same combo starting from the first j.S, because j.S has 90% proration. You can even mash the jab a little and still be fine because of this.\ Fast to come out, so you can sometimes tag stuff you wouldn't expect, and pick up off high j.H hits where a rejump wouldn't otherwise be possible. Need to experiment a bit with superjumps for this.

GGs yo. thanks for hosting on a random weekday

Not entirely sure where to put this, but it's combos so into the combo thread I guess. A thing that happens vs Potemkin is that he does Hammerfall and you can f.S 2H it, then the 2H breaks the Hammerfall and gets a counterhit. Great! I find that matchup frustrating so I set out to figure a good combo with that opening. For quite a while I was trying stuff with 2H(CH) S-roar FRC, but it just wasn't working out. If S-roar hits on the ground (instead of out of the air like 2S bounce into S-roar) it doesn't slide as long, and if he's a bit far away it can be too unreliable to chase. Eventually I gave up with that route. If someone finds a good 2H(CH) S-roar FRC combo vs PO, please post it. Here are some other combos I tried. They're from about starting position, except the first which is a bit farther away. I tested from there to make sure these are going to be reliable when they hit him out of hammerfall 2H(CH) drill (far) (72) - far hit with no meter, PO lands too far to connect a 2S afterwards basic 2H(CH) drill 2S S-roar (115) - still meterless, decent damage and corner push. this is probably what you'll hit most of the time 2H(CH) drill 2S S-roar FRC IAD j.H j.drill 2S S-roar (138) - for when the S-roar would push him to the corner. I find S-roar FRC 214K difficult to work with vs PO because he's wide and it tags him, but there might be a path worth taking there. this IAD j.H j.drill extension seems generally useful after S-roar FRC when you're too close to 214K over but too far to oki without the FRC 2H(CH) P-roar FRC IAD j.SH j.drill 2S S-roar (152) - a more ambitious combo route. works from reasonably far away and does good damage, but always requires meter 2H(CH) P-roar FRC IAD j.SH land, dashjump j.SH D-roar airdash j.H j.plunge [+2S S-roar] (208[+17]) - a bunch of meter but good damage and a good knockdown

laughing out loud at 2am trying not to wake people up

Noticed I was dropping confirms off random j.H hits when I try to do dashjump j.S jc j.SH etc, so I went into training mode and did 669S a bunch of times and found that doing the 9 too fast doesn't give you the dash momentum. I tried with some other characters to be sure and this seems to be specific to Kliff? Maybe it's because he has a step-dash. Figured I'd post it in case someone else was also having this issue.

GGs all, those were some good animes we had

stand on the rooftops and shout it into the streets! ANIME FUCK YEAH!!!

no worries bro. getting hype about ~anime~ is always permissible!

Punishing drill is complicated. Let's take a concrete example like Sol. Without an IB vs the final hit he can punish with an 8f startup move at most. His f.S is 7f, so he'll probably aim for something like f.S (CH) > Bandit Bringer > combo. So that gives him a 2f window to hit that f.S to punish, which is non-trivial. Actually it's even worse for him than that, because the final frame of Kliff's recovery is not CH state, so he'd need to do a different combo like f.S fafnir there, and that's tough to confirm, so he's going for a 1f punish to get the BB combo. If he IBs the last hit of drill, though, that shaves 4f off the blockstun, bringing his punish window up to 5f, a pretty significant difference! Note that only IBing the last hit makes a difference for this. For spacing, it's definitely easier for them to punish if you are up close. Using Sol as an example again, if you are right in his face he can use that 3f 5K for easy mode punish. Even at a decent spacing that IB into f.S can catch you though, so you'll need to be pretty far to space it to be truly safe without a RC, at which point you're far enough that he might be able to jump over it on reaction. Most characters have a decently reaching 7f move, so this example is typical. Normal ABA's 5K is about as short as you can expect their pokes to be. That one you really can be far enough to avoid punishment. Keep in mind that the more hits they block, the more they can potentially IB to reduce pushback. All of this only matters vs someone who's actually practiced punishing it, though. It's hard enough that they're probably not going to get it without training moding it. If you have meter you can make it even harder. While they're blocking, you can RC into sweep. Most punishes for it are standing pokes, so people tend to block it standing. I guess it also looks like an air move? Not a good thing to aim for, but a decent backup plan if you make a mistake and it'll put more strain on what they need to worry about. It's also possible to RC into falling j.moves vs some chars, but it's hard and everyone blocks the drill high anyways. If you know they have trouble punishing, it can be worthwhile to link a Sole Survivor to hit their poorly timed punish. With the guardbar from the blocked drill and follow-up OTG, you could be looking at 200-250 damage vs Sol. Just remember how risky Sole Survivor is. I've watched BoB's video so many times now, trying out all the stuff. Really incredible. I'm finding some stuff like throw 2S 214K 2S etc to be pretty hard. I can't tell how much the timing of the first 2S matters. Like do both of them need to be tight, or is the second one just really tight? The more I experiment, the more it seems like the former. I tried some combos like 5K c.S 2S 214K 2S S-roar on Jam, and it seems easier if the 2S is chained quickly than slowly, suggesting that it really wants a good bounce on the first 2S to work. The combo on Venom is beautiful, Mors Pricipium Est - Forgotten immediately started playing in my head. I've been fiddling with midscreen throw combos lately, but they seem awfully character specific and I don't quite understand them yet, so it'll be some time before I have much show. A fun one vs JA from start position is forward throw dash 2S S-roar FRC 214K dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K (283 damage), but for some reason I can't connect a 2S S-roar on the end. Don't know why she gets to tech.

That new combo video gave me enough ideas to keep me busy for a while. I tested some little things. Some of this is incomplete but I plan to drill some execution stuff for the next few days and I wanted to write it out while it's on my mind. sweep 2S works on JA,MA,BA,KL,AB,IN,AN, I couldn't get it on any others. You can "fraud" it by being so close that the sweep hits on the way back and that'll connect vs more characters, but I didn't record those. This link is good for going into stun slap off arbitrary openers. CH Gold Burst 2S S-Roar FRC dash stun slap seems to stun everyone except AB and PO For meterless throw combos throw 2S S-roar (92 vs SO) - universal throw 2S 214K 2S S-roar (115 vs SO) - MI,AX,ZA,CH,SL,AB,SO,KY,BA,TE,BR,IN, hard to get the second 2S to connect throw 2S 214K 2S S-roar 5K... - MI,ZA,SL,AB,SO,BA,TE,BR, havn't tested followups much yet throw 2S 214K 2S S-roar "6K"... - KY, tiny walk to get it to connect Also some big damage stuff 5D IAD j.H... - ZA,SL,TE,BR,PO,AX(?) 5D IAD j.H land 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K 2S S-roar (293 damage vs BR) - basic 5D IAD combo, BR seems too bouncy for another 6H rep though. tack on FRC 2H(partial) S-roar for 24 more damage and a guaranteed stun from starting life 5D IAD j.H land 6P(partial) S-roar 5K c.S 2S S-roar (185 damage vs BR) - basic meterless variant. does more than the B&B 5D combo IAD j.KSH land dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K (330 vs MI) - big damage off an IAD, not sure who it works against yet. MI,VE,JA confirmed. vs chars that the j.H refuses to float, sweep 2S...stun slap is probably the best route. This last one is something I was playing with in #R in anticipation of +R. I havn't seen anyone talk about it elsewhere so I had to confirm that it works. It's a way to get 6Hs off a 5D vs chars that don't get hit by the IAD. I don't know if other routes are possible off it. Sample combo is vs JA, others would require adjustments. 5D jc j.H j.41236S (first hit whiffs, second floats them) dash 5K 6P(partial) S-Roar FRC 6H 214K 2S S-roar (263 vs JA) The key is getting them to bounce off the top of the shockwave after the impossible dust. It's a bit tricky. I confirmed the shockwave float to work on everyone other than PO and RO, though it might be possible on them too. I couldn't connect a 5K on HOS after the wave, he's so heavy, but maybe it's possible. Probably not good for a universal combo, but could be a good path vs some chars.

At neutral, good pokes are f.S, j.S, 2D, maybe drill if they don't know how to punish it. You might want to dashjump into j.S, it gives it insane range. If your opponent doesn't know what's up, you can abuse 214K as well. Strings like f.S 2H 214K can be quite effective. Just be aware that if they catch on they can hit you hard for being predictable about it. On offence, cancelling into P-roar for frame advantage is great, it lets you pressure with f.S or 2D without being contested. You can go in with it by doing FRC dash or FRC IAD to get things started, like a fake gunflame FRC. Once you get an airdash going, try for a string like j.KSH then land into 2K, 5P or c.S to hit low, tick throw or jump cancel into another IAD. You can add a whiff to the IAD with a string like j.KP(whiff) land throw. On defense, your best tools are throw, air throw, and smart blocking. Kliff's throw has a deceptive range so that can work well. The other option is to push them out to a range where your pokes outspeed theirs, either with patience or FD. Kliff's backdash doesn't have a ton of invuln but it recovers quicker than the norm, so that can give you room to evade and punish with 2D. 214P~P and Sole Survivor are passable reversals but really the best option is to not let them get close, using backdash and your pokes. For anti-air, 623H is great but the motion is "slow" to do. Often I've found that jumping to meet them in the air with j.P, j.S or and air throw is best. Hope that helps.

yo fuck that get that anime~!

Played this matchup some more last night. For the opening game, Kliff sweep beats most of Justice's stuff, and Justice TK Michael Sword beats most of Kliff's stuff, including that sweep and backdash. Block is not bad vs it. She gets pushed to the corner and you're safe, then can punish with the tip of drill for a bit of damage and a knockdown unless she FDs out of the MS*. 6P clashes with it, then you can FD to block the second hit. f.S beats it clean and can score a CH into S-roar or 214K. I like the 214K combo better there, since it gives you room to pressure, even though it doesn't push her to the corner like the S-roar. Justice can jump over sweep, but this loses to f.S too and if you block you can react to her jump-ins. Justice can also backdash the sweep, which puts her at a slight advantage in terms of frames against f.S and a large advantage vs sweep. This isn't too scary but block and react beats this too. She has a variety of pokes that beat f.S, like 5K, f.S, Michael Sword, and catch counter, but all of these lose to sweep, though they are good vs Kliff's block due to pushback (cancel into Michael Sword). Of these, her 2S seems like it has the best payoff due to CH stagger on hit. Finally she can block low vs all of those Kliff options, which is low risk but doesn't really beat anything, since he can cancel into P-roar for frame advantage or is neutral in block vs block. Final options Kliff: sweep, f.S, block Justice: TK Michael Sword, 2S, backdash, jump-in, block(weak) edit - After playing with this strategy, I'm not sure f.S will beat start of round jump. Need to retest and maybe re-evaluate and edit. *This is a really weird interaction. I can't figure out what is going on here or why it works the way it does. I don't know why she needs to FD for this to happen, it seems like she's on the ground. ----- Unrelated to opening game, if she's pressuring you in the corner and cancelling into missiles, slap her with f.S. It might trade or she might FRC, but you only get hit by the missile once at worst, so it's not a big deal, and it keeps her from bullying you.

you mean B MINUS tier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWxpbNZuK0 Kliff combo vid

oh, everyone who wasn't at gonq on thursday missed my incredibly hype hakumen play.

Sweet! Thanks. :3

lmao i'm dying here, can't breathe

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22128697 Combo Video by Bob and No Display, can't find a title, maybe it's just GGXXAC+R Kliff combo movie edit - Youtube mirror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWxpbNZuK0 Pretty exciting video either way. A friend told me the comment at the top says something like "oh I made this video to encourage more Kliff play, because right now he's the second-least played char" ----- Vs Justice, Justice does deep jump-in j.H sweep (CH), S-roar IAD j.H land dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K dash 6P(partial) 214K 2S S-roar *kills* Vs Baiken, Baiken does f.S (blocked), chain dash under chain, 2K f.S drill dash plunge FRC (whiff for reset), 2K sweep 2S S-roar FRC dash stun slap *stuns* dash 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K 2S S-roar *kills* Vs Faust dash FDC throw walk back 2S 214K jump forward plunge (crossup) 2S S-roar FRC dash stun slap dash 6P(partial) S-roar dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *kills* Vs I-no, I-no does 5H S-Stroke the Big Tree, S-Stroke the Big Tree SB the second, dash 5K 6P(partial) drill (whiff) 2S S-roar FRC dash S-roar FRC dash stun slap *stuns* dash 6P (partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K 2S S-roar sweep *kills* Vs Testament (crouching) dashjump j.K (instant overhead) j.drill FRC j.H j.D land j.K j.H j.D land c.S taunt dashjump j.K (instant overhead) taunt-hit j.S j.H c.S 5H drill meaty P-roar dash cr.P j.K (instant overhead) j.drill(1 hit) RC j.H land 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H (full) *kills* Vs Venom, Venom does dash f.S cr.S ball sweep (CH) Reflex Roar FRC dash 214K(whiff) dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K c.S f.S 5H drill 2S *kills* Vs Dizzy throw (into corner) 2S P-roar FRC 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC *stuns* 6H(full) 214K 6P(partial) S-roar dash 5K c.S 2S 214K 2S S-roar 5K D-roar plunge *kills* Vs Potemkin dashjump j.K (instant overhead) j.S j.H dash 5K j.S j.H plunge dash meaty P-roar j.K (instant overhead) j.S j.H j.D dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K walk back slightly meaty P-roar dash 2K RC j.K (instant overhead) j.S j.H j.D 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *kills* Vs Jam throw (into corner) 2S Reflex Roar FRC (block her burst, RRoar still hits) 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K 6H(partial) *kills* Vs Testament 5D IAD j.H (ID) land 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K dash c.S f.S 5H drill 2S 5H *kills* Vs Kliff Kliff2: IAD j.S j.H dashjump j.K j.S jc j.S j.H plunge Kliff2: dash TK plunge (instant overhead) (blocked) Kliff1: dash 5K 6P(partial) Reflex Roar FRC 214K(whiff) 214K(whiff) 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K Kliff1: dash 6P(partial) S-roar dash 5K 6P S-roar drill *kills* Vs Chipp, Chipp does Beta Blade gold burst (CH) dash 2S S-roar FRC dash stun slap *stuns* dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *stuns* 214K 2S 5H *kills* Vs Kliff, Kliff does IAD j.? 5H (CH) 5K 6P(partial) S-roar walk forward 214K (whiff) 5H P-roar FRC 6P (partial) *stuns* 214K dash 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *kills* Vs Johnny, Johnny does That's My Name 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(partial?) S-roar FRC dash 6H(partial?) S-roar FRC dash stun slap *stuns* 6P(partial) S-roar dash 5K c.S 2S 214K 2S S-roar *kills* Vs Millia throw (into corner) 2S 214K 2S S-roar 5K j.H D-roar air dash j.H plunge dashjump j.K j.S (blocked) jc j.K (fuzzy overhead) j.S j.H dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) *kills* Vs Ky, Ky does f.S Stun Edge dash under stun edge, f.S drill 2S S-roar meaty P-roar FRC, dashjump j.K j.S (blocked) sweep P-roar FRC IAD j.S j.H c.S 5H P-roar FRC 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) 214K 2S 5H 623H (3 hits) *kills* (2 more hits) Vs Jam, Jam does air dash Gekirin jump IB Gekirin, falling j.P land 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC dash 214K (whiff) 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC dash dash stun slap *stuns* 6P(partial) S-roar dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar TK j.drill 2S 5H 623H (6 hits) *kills* Vs Axl (blocking) (all blocked) 2K c.S IAD j.K j.S j.H land dashjump j.S (hits as fuzzy high) RC j.S j.H dash 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar *kills* Vs Zappa c.S 5H drill 2S S-roar FRC walk taunt dashjump j.K (instant overhead) taunt hit j.D 5K 6P(partial) S-roar FRC 6H(full) S-roar FRC dash 6H(full?) *stuns* 214K *kills*

yooooo animeeee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q5fzeDnqjM&t=2356 our hero, Yurisan vs Kedako