Veteru

Actually, I think the billiards loop is pretty cheap.

In case anybody doesn't believe this, just thought I'd say about 50% of my current AC Sol combo theory is from trying to remember Clayton's old Sol posts from ggxx through ggac, with another 40% being misc. japanese combo vids and 10% my personal creativity.

I didn't think I'd have to include this but [Disclaimer, all combos performed by me in training mode with back tech on] concerning 4 vs. 5 sw combos, it's pretty much your option, but sometimes screen positioning will limit what you can do.. sometimes at certain positionings, 4 sidewinders leads to an awkward positioning where it's hard to get a knockdown. I just wanted to see what the max I could get while still keeping the bandit revolver untechable knockdown. Also please note all combos were performed against sol, against other characters your mileage will vary. I'm still working on creating a list for other characters. P.S. Some combos I experimented with could lead to ground bandit revolvers that did not knock down... that's right... they magically became air techable because I did so many hits, hehehe. Veteru

As stated by Weget, the other thread is [was] worthless. You should lock it or maybe rename it (Sol Combo Theory Discussion?). There are [were] many worthless combos in it (Volcanic viper RC volcanic viper RC volcanic viper?!). I did notice you recently deleted them, but that was after I created this thread and brought back some interest... some of those posts had been there for 6 months or longer. Also, almost no combo in the other thread lists the damage it does. In order to even find out which combo is better, people have to try every single one... that's why I saw it more as a combo discussion thread than a combo posting one. Also pointed out by Weget, the difficulty of the combos I listed is somewhat higher than typical. I've tried to list maximized combos as much as possible, while still allowing for bandit revolver knockdowns. As for whether or not this thread should be merged with the existing thread, that pretty much depends on if you think people should have to read through 20+ [13] pages of combos in order to find that list. Personally I don't think they should have to, which is why I created a seperate thread. Assuming you leave my post here, I was planning to expand this thread to cover different character weights, etc.. Light characters change the optimal setups a lot, so I'm still experimenting to find the best (imo) options. Veteru

[Edit: Changed title to "OLD". Look forward to a new thread from me soon] Sol is a good character for "freestyle" combos. His combos vary slightly depending on exact screen positioning and what you use to launch, but once you get the basics down you can pretty much improvise your own. I think this is part of the reason people don't discuss his combos much, but since I couldn't find it listed I decided to write some up. Here is a listing of the combos I'm using. All of these combos work against Sol. I'll include some others for "Non-Sol Targets" later on. Brief explanation of my notation: nj.S = neutral jump slash j.S = forward jumping slash Backwards jump is not used in any combo listed DJ = double jump SW = Of course it's a clean hit so don't ask CH = Counter Hit All specials are abbreviated in a logical way. -------------------------------------- Here we go! Dust Combos: 5D, j.D, j.D, DJ >> falling j.D, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 199 damage (Must be in corner by 4th j.D) 2D 2D, BR(2), RC, j.D, dj.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 235 (Must be in corner by the second j.D) 2D, BR(1), RC, SW, nj.S, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 242 (Proximity to the corner required) 2D CH 2D, GF, Fafnir, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 285 2D, GF FRC, dash j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 274 GV Combos (In the corner by the end of GV) [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 226 GV, [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 245 Low airdash S, H(1), 2H >> [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 231 2KH >> [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 191 5H2H >> [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 277 GV Combos (Midscreen variant) GV, dash j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 241 5S6P Combo (requires corner): 5S, 6P >> [GV, dash j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR] = 268 Dashing 5S, 6P, delay 236P, 2H, j.D, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 254 Fafnir: CH (Or Clean Hit from anti-jump setup) Fafnir, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 245 (277 if used as antijump/backdash) Airthrow (Midscreen): Low airthrow, Fafnir = 80 (Can't get a clean hit vs. Sol) Low airthrow, 5SH, SJIAD.KS, VV(623H214K) = 105/116 (depends on # of VV hits) Throw (Corner): Throw, 5K(1), j.KS, SW, GV, dash j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 165 Throw, 5K(1), j.PS, SW, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.SW, BR = 152 Bukkirabou ni Nageru (Command throw): BnN, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, [optional extra nj.S, SW,] j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 175[187] (Requires certain proximity from the corner - works best at 1/2 stage distance) BnN, Fafnir, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 196 (Requires certain proximity from the corner - works best at 1/2 stage distance) BnN, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, (5S or 2H), SW, 2H, BR = 162/164 (Works vs. corner) BnN, dash j.H, j.SW, j.SW, j.SW, dash j.D, VV(623S214K) = 149 Riot Stomp (CH): RS, dash 2H, j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 267 RS, 214S(2), dash j.D, SW, nj.S, SW, j.S, SW, nj.S, SW, BR = 288 Unburstable: BnN, whiff Fafnir>>FB Tyrant Rave >> Bandit Revolver (Works from midscreen) = 112 Veteru

I'm sorry if you weren't able to reproduce it, but it's a fact. I always skip the intro so it has nothing to do with the new intro. If you tried it against live opponents, it's possible that either your skill or your opponents skill isn't high enough to consistantly attack on the first frame of the match. My suggestion if you want to test the validity of this is to load up training mode and simply try pressing the button on both player's sides simultaneously (press select to reset to default starting distances). It has both a timing and spacing requirement, so make sure only to try it at the default starting position. I don't have a capture card so I can't provide you with any videos... maybe one of the more well known ky players with capture cards can record it. Saying that is kind of pointless. I'm not trying to convince anyone to open the match with far S, just saying that it will beat sol's far s if both players have perfect timing. Veteru

Actually Darkhonor is right. Ky far S beats Sol far S. Please don't list post up random frame data without trying it yourself first. Sol vs. Ky is one of my favorite matchups (after Ky vs. Ky, hehe), so I've picked up a few things over the years. Here's the breakdown: Sol far S is faster (7f startup), but only has 1 active frame. Ky far S is slower, BUT on frame 7 it has a 'dodge frame'. You beat Sol's far S by "not being there". Doing it at the start of the match means you have to have confidence in two things: Your opponent's ability and your own. How reliably do you think they can far s on the very first possible frame, and how reliably can you do it? If you're confident in both then it used to be worth going for. Sadly, because of the stun dipper nerf, far S no longer combos into stun dipper in this situation (another reason I hate AC Ky). I don't advise it anymore because the risk/reward ratio is horrible now... at least you could get a knockdown before. Veteru

Dragon install? What is it good for? Use it to beat Heidern98, or other similar Ky users. Veteru

Darn . . . looks like I showed up too late. Well, I'll try to pick up the pieces if I can. I'm sure AKA would see videos of it more often if he recorded his own matches. You'll have to excuse him, I think sometimes he forgets that not everyone is at the same execution level. The time I spent fighting AKA this year was short but sweet... I can tell you he isn't the type of person to see something in a video and start a discussion using it as justification. If he is saying setup XYZ is good and useful... it probably means he uses it frequently and finds it useful. As for the specific current topic... P into shadow gallery... yeah, I saw that from him a lot at Evo2k6. There are US players who can escape nobiru --> SG setups, and if USA guys can do it then Japan must also be quite skilled at it. P.S. I can't beat AKA with DI Sol

Jam's 5k WAS a 4F move(XX, #R). Now it's 5F (GGSlash). It creates an interesting dilemma, what to follow up a reversal parry with. Her 5P is 3f, but if they chain into crouching attacks, or if they're at a distance other than 'immediately in front of you', it's possible for it to miss. Her 2p, which is 4f, has similar range issues -- at least it won't be crouched (however, sol sweep goes under it if executed simultaneously). Of course, if you're fighting against someone with particularly slow normals (lol Testament), it might be better to take a risk and do something like 5s5s directly into a strong combo (depending if you hit him crouching or standing). One thing to watch out for, vs. Sol. he has the neat attack chain [2p, 5k] which will punish most parry >> counter attempts (unless you burst cancel, hehe). Using 5k is still possible vs. other chars, but watch out for guys like order + regular sol, chipp, and other jam users. They are all cheater charachters with normals faster than 5f. There are some chars I didn't mention who have 3 or 4f "5p" attacks, but they're all crouchable, so 2p will win, also, it's rare for them to be used in block strings on the opponent's wakeup (I-no, Aba, Anji). A lot of times, it's possible to throw after the parry, even if your opponent was out of range for a reversal throw. You don't get pushed back at all during parry animation, so if the opponent was running, they may 'slide' into your attack range. It's very situational, but something to consider. EDIT: Parry >> Super, or Parry >> DP are noteworthy options to consider. Why not just super or DP as a reversal? Well... for all but the fastest normals, your opponent won't recover in time to block Jam's DP/Super (both are 7F), and if they chain into anything, they're probably screwed (some chars have moves that crouch her dragon punch, or go through it (upper body inv.)). In that sense, you could train yourself to only super if you see the parry come out... which prevents you from getting your super baited / blocked / otherwise avoided (technically they could do a meaty attack and then jump + FD) This is a pretty accurate example of your options after a parry. Your opponent is free to chain out of their move into anything they want, as are you. Basically, you have to rely on your chaining options being faster and/or invincible (Look up "burst cancel"). Veteru