fogelstrom

Fatal Counter adds to frame advantage/histun(?) so that's why it works at least. It's cool but a bit difficult imo so nothing I go for. Also I'm mostly option selecting my 6B these days so getting just 6B FC without instantly canceling to something practially nevers happens for me now.

Tetsuwo is super rare but I like his style even if he just plays around with Terumi ^^

6A is good in this matchup but you can't overrate it. Eventually you'll get blown up by j.2C. And getting j.2C FC into 4,5k+ from Tager can ruin 30-50 seconds on the clock for you instantly. Sadly enough most of my experience with Terumi vs Tager is online and that makes for unfair conditions mostly in Tager's favor. For the most part I just switch up to my Azrael because seing that GF "mixup" being completely useless by his backdash wakes me warm and fuzzy inside. I'd say this matchup would probably be at worst 6-4 for Tager but more realisticly in offline higher level play 5.5-4.5 if not even 5-5. So it is indeed winnable but small things can turn things around for Tager easily. Doing 6C on Tager wakeup if you have 50% if they tend to backdash alot is an idea. I do it sometimes to catch backdashes easy. If you have 100% meter you can always RC, OD for heavy stuff Would be cool to see some stuff of the few high dan ranked Terumi players against Tagers such as Grandia, Barrell and UNDER.

Even with all the time in the lab there are certain things you just can't help. Like mashing that burst in matches and go "Man... now I don't get to OD". Every. Single. Match. Maybe I'm just stupid and slow but this transission is really hard for me. Also online = too many rage bursts obivously xD

This matchup is anything but bad for Tager imo. He doesn't need to care about j.D, 5D or 2D really. Even if they are annoying you are not gonna wear him down with those moves trying to keeping him out and he doesn't care all that much about your meter either. You can praise 6B all you want in this matchup and I can say it looks really good on paper but in reality I'm not having much success with it. The timing has to be impecable not to be grabbed anyway. It's all in the frames! Also Tager 5A stuffs 6B. Terumi has below zero options after gadget finger. If you are hit by GF you have more or less lost the match unless you get a lucky guess or have 100% meter for 623B RC. For the most part Tager's have stopped backdashing on wakeup but outside of 5A mash I have not find any specific os to counter this with better reward. Overall Tager's hp and "unfair" rewards for mashing makes this matchup difficult for Terumi. One combo/grab to gadget finger and I can basically drop the stick ^^

As Raccoon suggest I don't think 5C, 5D works against the whole cast. I can't say 100% because I have not tried it in training mode. I just replaced all my bnb's to make them hit on the whole cast instead. Another reason can be the height of when 5C hits. The higher up they are the easier it is to hit 5D after or atleast so I have found. Also regarding OD use people should think way more of it as a burst stopper as well. If you only use burst after 6D to squeeze out extra dmg you are not using it efficiently even if it is OD. I have grave issues with this as well but I'm trying to experiment with it to lock out people's bursts when they save them too long. A great example is throw in corner, ODc, 22C, 623B -> whatever for meter -> super. It's easy rather big dmg and you lock out their burst from the start. Also for combos involvning 63214B, OD, 22C you can lock out bursts. With Terumi's OD being so useful it's defenitely something worth spending time in training mode for and altering your play.

Generally if you input 66 people understand that you need to dash altough not specified in length most people understand that they have to try themselves to get the timing down

It's unfortunate that Terumi's poor defense makes you wanna use the burst to burst alot as well... with Terumi you are gonna be quite torn between burst and OD :/ But I'm trying to alter my play and save burst as much as possible. However I refuse to use OD unless it's for the kill so I end up bursting most of the time anyway.

In no particular order. Horrible bursts all of them. Huge waste considering Terumi actually has a useful OD. Dropping combos for no reason at all. Doing poor combos, really not optimized at all or even decent combos for that matter most of the time. Alot of wasted meter with 63214B. It's just not worth the meter midscreen in 1.1 without the followup. The "oki" is also non existant for it. Way to hesitant (maybe because I have a more button happy style). But he had oki and just backdashed on your wakeup several times. I'd say Jin has the upper hand in neutral over Terumi so he just shot himself in the foot for nothing. Maybe baiting reversal 623C but giving up all oki for that is not worth it. No or poor thought behind blockstrings and pressure. It was pretty much the same all over. You could have easily just sit and block all day and tech throws with minimal risk seing as he'd sooner or later end up on poor frame advantage that you could just escape or press buttons of your own. Alot to work on... but if he gets combos down, watch a few vids and concentrate on Terumi's pressure he'll improve fast enough if there's a will.

Yeah but if all he does is 6C, C shoryu it's predictable and should end up with minimum 4k punish for you. With 6B FC fatal depending on meter and screen position 6-8k. Too many of those and he'll be sure to not do it again.

Why not go into training mode and try it out then? I can tell you right of the bat that it's not tight. Anything to 6C is horrid. You can mash 2A all day when they 6C if you got the reactions for it. Also after 6C hits on block... what can he do? Nothing, mash buttons again. Also if he does the same block string over and over... IB and mash 2A. Even better since he is not using any low attacks just stand and do 5A, 2F faster than 2A! Go into training mode and look at the frame data. Record whatever he is doing and press buttons and whatnot. This is how you should learn how to deal with most stuff anyway. For the grabs it's just a matter of frame data. You are getting grabbed at the startup of an attack before the active frames.

The wiki isn't really a good source for anything related to Terumi. The best information you'll find in these various threads save for frame data. The frame data on the wiki is also not accurate but gives you the general idea for each move.

I don't know the name of the only good JP Terumi player I've seen sadly enough xD But there are only a few matches of him anyway. You're always gonna have trouble vs Kokonoe with any character you pick. But if you're looking for specifics against her you can always ask in the matchup sub forum and discuss it.

Just look up BNB's and try out oki after them. I personally try to switch up my oki with resets and whatnot. I also don't really like 6C or 236D oki because 2B pickup is worthless imo. My new favorite oki is <corner combo> and after 6D, 5C, 2C jc. They tech on 2C and you can do multiple stuff depending on how they tech. If they neutral without barrier you can 6B for air hit and do really heavy stuff. If they air barrier do fake 6B to grab. If they air tech you can 2C, jc, j.2D and if they don't tech immediately you can pick up with 2B or 22C. If they tech up you can super jump cancel the 2C to air grab or j.A mash. Alot of possibilites there. Anyway... check out as many vids you can to get an idea. I think Terumi overall has poor oki, midsceen especially. In corner I find various setups works the best for me rather than to end with 236D. Instead of saying the names of supers/distortions it's easier for everyone if you type them out by command like 63214A. Also there is no point going into this if it doesn't kill (very low minimum dmg) or on block for 50/50 between 63214A/B versions.

Thanks heavy. Maybe I'll go through it and compare when I'm bored. Examples would really help me personally thou since I like getting put on the spot to actually get me motivated. Other than that I'm a copy player and copy people when they do good/better things than me. Unfortunately I seldom get the chance to see that except for maybe that dan 15-17 player from JP. I have not played Neriam in a while or Owner_of_Epic for that matter. But I can't remember being blown up by any Terumi at all at any point really. Maybe because my total respect for other Terumi players and only busting out Azrael instead of mirrors.

Meh. Terumi sucks for combos these days. I just kinda go with what I know. I suck too much to main Azrael also xD I only pick up new stuff from vids but since there are about 0 Terumi players that can play I get zero inspiration. Though I've come up with some new things as of late. Unfortunately no stream so no new vids of that :| *EDIT* If you'd actually have concrete examples of what I should have done instead that wuld of course be very swell to experiment to see if I could switch things up.

Was messing around some with CT. 6C RC, CT, 5C, 22C Lv1, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, 236D - 4531 dmg. Need 66 heat start minimum and end up back with 54 heat. Also if you hit 6B on air opponents you can cancel straight into CT so you need to option select it in. But you can do tons of stuff after it. Just basic example 6B, CT, 5C, 22C Lv1, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, 236D - 4508 dmg / 58 heat. Starting from 21 heat. 6B, CT, 5C, 22C Lv1, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, 5D, 236D, 632146D - 6282dmg - Needs 62 heat or more. 6B, CT, 5C, 22C Lv1, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, ODc, j.2D, 236D - 623B, 63214 - 6987dmg / Needs ~50% hp or less. Fuuenjin hits at what? 80% or something. If you feel you need extra heat in sacrifice of dmg you can do 5D, 22C after CT but you sacrifice quite alot of dmg with the P2 of 5D. For funsies. 6B, 2C, 5C, ODc, 22C Lv3, 632146D - 7401dmg 6B, CT, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, ODc, j.2D, 22C Lv3, 632146D - 6469dmg

Even though 6C got nerfed you can combo from CH without rapid. You can do either 22C straight away (kinda hard, probably alot easier offline) or 2B. 2B has bad P2 so your dmg isn't gonna be awesome but you save 50 meter. If you can land 22C however and close to corner bring the pain. 6C CH, 22C Lv1, 63214B, 3C, 5D, 6D, 236D - 4641dmg +45 heat. You need minimum of 35 heat when 6C lands. 6C CH, 2B, 22C Lv3, 5C, 2C, 5D, 6D, 236D - 3902dmg +68 heat 6C CH, 22C Lv1, 63214B, 3C, 5D, 6D, ODc, j.2D, 236D, 632146D - 6810dmg. I have not experimented with your routes so I sat down some in training mode and they're slightly better than what I use. I will have to look into this a bit more. Even though I hate not doing 22C Lv3. Just feels bad to leave out the added prorate even though it obviously isn't at all points.

I think the focus should be on giving critique to the Terumi player and not the opponents really. If you can't give any critique due to the fact that the opponent "isn't good enough" or whatnot either say nothing or say that you can't give any critique due to this fact. Anyway played some more online but only got a few worthy matches. Hopefully the opponent is better to everyone's liking. The EU community is small and somewhat behind so with that in mind... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2wjLk6_W2Q

I'm not basing it on Neo alone. Every Kagura I played is the same. Just up-back barrier and they have zero mixups and you win. 5D ftw and Messenga to punish everything.

Happy to hear you enjoyed them. With 50% meter this matchup could be as bad as 7-3 in Terumi's favor. If it's hopeless it's for Kagura. They have to pull out all the stops all the time to try and get anything in and started. I don't recognize your PSN so I don't think we've played. Note that I'm EU player.

Might as well post some updated vids of me playing. I probably know of all the flaws and critique that's gonna be handed out but it's online play and less than best https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KagaDNY1nHg Also I have very low respect for Kagura especially when playing Terumi. Sorry for the unedited stream matches but editing takes way too long so just skip ahead

Not using 63214B as it was by far the best dmg+carry because of lag well... either play locally or people with better connection. I'm in EU and our playerbase is horrible. I didn't really have any issues hitting it on people with 2 bar connection at all. Settling for lesser isn't always best even if it's done for the purpose of being able to pull of combos at all. "5B>5C>3C>22C LV3> 66>5D>6C works great for corner carry from how my matches go" I don't get how you all talk about 5B this much. Are you playing against people not blocking? A very very small percentage of my starters are 5B. Probably the most rare of all starters if I don't fish 5B CH with 5B dash pressure. And I'd assume that's not something you'd do online. "80% of the people i fight just always get hit when they wake up in the corner" I don't even... know what to say. I'd also think Terumi is cool if I could just do meaty 5B with 80% hit for easy confirm 5B, 5C to whatever 4k+ in corner for a whooping 80% of oki. This is just weird... To me it seems that we are on way different levels in terms of gameplay and gameplan considering these things. No offense to you personally or the people you play against with that in mind. Opening up people with Terumi is one if his biggest issues and you have to really utilize everything he's got. Even 214D to keep people on their toes. This is the reason JP players are using his j.2D ALOT, because it's his best tool to open up players but with only 2C having jump cancel it's way predictable and using outside 2C is a big gap in blockstun. I'm quite interested to see what people come up with in terms of BNB's with this new poor version of Terumi but I got really low expectations so far.

If 100% meter or getting 100% meter with 5D, 236D starter (one of the most I hit with anyway) for corner as well; 5D, 236D. 63214B, 5C, 3C, 5D, 6D Gives you the best oki, wich we have also lost since 6D oki was by far the best and now people just don't use it anymore. An extreme shame. You can add super of choice at the end as well to clutch out wins e.g 623B or 632146D. Dno what you mean with 236C, 41236C? His corner carry is horrible considering you could go coast to coast with 63214B wallbounce doing stuff like 5D, 236D, 63214B, 66, 2B, 5C, 22C Lv3. The problem with gaining heat to do "insane" things in this version is with his pressure the most likely starters you are going to get are 2A and j.2D and he has huge gaps in all his pressure so for someone that knows his revolver chart will most likely not be to worried. Throw in corner is still nice and you get 5k if you already have 100% meter at start and 4k something if you have to gain meter. Having to use 5D to get 6D is also bad since both of them has bad prorate so if you start with 100% meter you have to think before using 632146D unless you always wanna go for minimum damage. He has some added things that makes things up like better 6B and whatnot but overall he's worse and with not being a strong character before I feel that he went from MAYBE B+ and most to C+.

The Terumi that is now is not a Terumi I want to play. I was wondering why all JP players played so bad with Terumi but now with hands on the patch I realize it's Terumi and not them. His bnb dmg has been reduced so much and there's no reason to spend meter to add dmg at the end because now you have to chase that good prorate starter e.g. 5B, 5C, 2C, 3C and 6B and do a whooping combo. But I don't wanna run around building 100 meter easily with bnb's doing max 2,5k then not see it worth spending on anything but a combo that is gonna do 5k+ dmg at the least. I've played roughly 100 matches since the patch hit and I'm just very dissapointed with this iteration of Terumi. I'm gonna sub him but imo he's hit with a huge nerf, mostly midscreen with the removal of 63214B wallbounce. That hurt the most for me.