SnowMonkeyFunky

Since there's plenty of discussion of this going around on Twitter and Discord, I might as well put the jist of it here for posterity. Revelator 1.03 saw Venom getting a buttload of buffs across the board. They are as follows: – 6P Active Frames increased from 4F to 7F* Added Jump Cancel Recovery reduced by 3F* *NOTE: The animation is overall the same number of frames. These two changes simply mean that an extra 3 of what used to be recovery frames are now active. – 5HS Special Cancel window increased by 3F – j.HS Untechable Time increased from 14F to 16F – Ball Summon Tension gain increased from 50 to 75 – Stinger Aim Tension gain increased from 150 to 250 – Carcass Raid Tension gain increased from 150 to 200 – QV Tension gain increased from 150 to 200 – Mad Struggle Tension gain increased from 150 to 200 – Throw Blitz Shield bug after Throw fixed Burst bug after Throw fixed So the big ones imo are massive meter gain buffs, jH getting longer untech time making both airdash bnbs easier and short combos (like corner airthrow, clS[1] jc jH) knock down consistently, and of course 6P becoming SOGOODHOLYSCHNIKES. The 5H cancel window increase is a little quality of life buff that will make stuff revolving around 5H late BH xx S CR easier, but not really game changing. 6P is CH confirmable into an IAD combo, and on non CH can do something like 6P jc jS jH for a knockdown at most heights. 6P is now also a super valuable combo tool when used in conjunction with a ball hit. The way I see it being used in that context is during something like this: corner clS[3]866 jSHD 6H xx S QV, 6P BH IAD jSHD 6H xx Set That same combo was still possible pre patch, but substituting 6P for a microdash 5P BH. It was character specific, and even then it was remarkably inconsistent. While it may not make the extra loop universal, it should be far easier to do on most of the cast. Video example of the same concept off a throw: So yeah, Venom is much improved, but not meta shifting. Should be neat to see what gets discovered with his new 6P.

Badoor, I could kiss you right now. That setup has been my white whale for so long. A pseudo-safejump off any 6H knockdown, works on the whole cast (with variable dash timing), and I get a hell of a mixup? Yes pls. Also messed with it in the Revelator demo. The setup is viable in the corner (IE off clS bnb > 6H xx SQV 6P[BH] 6H long range knockdown), albeit losing its potency as a DP bait. Also it can still mess up Revelator charge blitz. Midscreen throw is a better option to call out charge blitz, while in the corner going low nets a full launch.

Time to take stock of what setups are still usable around charge blitz. I put a few up on Twitter that I'll write up later when I'm not on mobile. What do you guys got?

Two tidbits that I'm not sure have been discussed before: Expanding on the H > K set corner oki I was all happy over earlier in the thread, turns out it's not 100% blitz or reversal safe depending on character wakeup timing, spacing into the setup, etc. The silver lining is that off nearly any knockdown it can be with 25 meter at any spacing. Example: standing in corner: 2K clS[3] 2866 jSHD 6H xx SQV, 6P(BH) 6H xx H > K set, H stinger YRC 669jK (both balls hit) into old school K ball mixup. I just used this combo as an extreme example that this can be done from really far out. It's debatable whether it's worth the meter, especially with all the cheeky BRO stuff being figured out, but I like it. And for a set pattern in neutral: If you are up against a character with potent horizontal zoning (cough Ky setting Split Ciels cough cough), and manage to get a P ball out, jump back H set, 66 jS/D (BH) is a great way to control space and get around that stuff. jD is more for a 2/3rd screen distance and prevents jumping, jS works from fullscreen, but doesn't control anything above jump height.

Try doing a dash jump. Midscreen clS xx P/SQV 669 jKSHD 6H should be pretty consistent on most of the cast. *Difficult to the point of not being worth it on Ky, Zato, and probably a few others I'm forgetting, and impossible on the heavies. It's definitely consistent on Sol though. Another one I've seen used frequently on Sol is clS xx P QV, 5P BH 669 jKSHD 6H

Solid vid pomp. Only recommendation I have is noting that the midscreen throw combo with the IAD is finicky on more than just Bedman. I know off the top of my head Slayer drops out of it (the jD otgs). Instead, throw, clS/2H xx S CR, 669 jKSHD 6H is what I use. Also, for the corner extension, 6H xx S QV, 6P [BH] 6H is pretty much universal.

Already put this in the video thread, but it definitely warrants further discussion. Basically, what's happening is there is a setup to no ball BRO that 'seems' pretty airtight (if not, then at the very least it'll be easy to exploit escape attempts). If you start out with 66% tension or greater, you get the setup 3 times in a row. along with a guard gauge cranked so high even Sin would blush. What I want to test later is where it can be upbacked, IB upbacked, FDed to create gaps, what to do at different points if it ever hits, and if it's character hurtbox dependent. Thoughts? Notation (on block): 2K clS[2] xx BRO, *2P xx CR, 2K xx H set, 2K xx K set, 2K xx S set, 2K* xx S Stinger [lvl2-3?], 2S xx S Stinger, 669 jH [BH] late airdash jSH, clS[1] xx CR, dash 2K clS[2] 5H [late BH] xx P set, 2S [BH] xx Teleport jH, clS[1] xx CR, dash 2K clS[2] > start setup again. BRO lasts between the two " * ". Didn't bother noting [BH] while the BRO is actually out since EVERYTHING is a ball hit.

If the Axl you're fighting likes to get cheeky with the air resets to 6K (IE: Rensen~9 then let you air tech 6K/throw dash 5P 6K allow air tech another 6K to reset, etc), as well as if they fuck up their timing on 6K 2S (hooray for Venom's finnicky hurtbox!) you can forward tech and punish them free. Forward air tech also does wonders if they try to otg with 3P to prevent other gimmicky resets.

For CH jH a2a, you can cancel with K set, airdash forward jD BH for a really gimmicky crossup! YRC doesn't completely lock their inputs, they just need to jump/input whatever /after/ the freeze. It's the same reason Potemkin gets so much milage out of hammerfall YRC buster, if you don't input a jump after the freeze you're stuck. Holding upback will get you nowhere. It's great to fuck with DP mashers in that situation though. For going low after empty MS, I've tried that a lot but I'm often too far to get a full 2K clS launch if they do stand up. I'd rather take the risk getting that extra pixel closer to throw and get full corner carry.

If you a2a with jump back jH, is there any set pattern you can use to get some lockdown going? I would imagine some kind of set to jD BH would at least keep them still long enough to move back in for pressure. Also, how do you guys feel about using TK MS as a tick throw setup? Something like blocked clS jc TK MS (whiff) throw, or off of some kind of horizontal oki dash up TK MS [1-2] on hit or block walk up throw. Legitimately effective and useful offline, or whacky online only gimmick?

2H only seems to beat air Bridal at a narrow range. You almost need to clip it with the tip of the cue, otherwise counterhit, rip, start the next round. I definitely agree that it's an underrated AA though. The damage potential off an AA CH 2H is nuts.

D: As for actual discussion: I'm having an issue getting clS out when trying to use it as an AA or during pressure. Like, say I try to do dash up clS, I'll get a fS that will completely whiff cause there's no hitbox at point blank, but if I do dash up 5K>S I'll get 5K clS. Is there a way to prevent this? Similar issue with dash under clS AA, I usually end up dashing too far to avoid having fS come out, and I do a clS in the wrong direction. EDIT: Also, the FD/Special OS discussed earlier in the thread is gonna be out in Revelator. Not a huge deal since Venom didn't get anything off it to begin with, but good to know for future reference.

Not sure if most of you heard, but there was an Xrd players doc made up. Be sure to add your info! *Side note: DaiAndOh I don't think you can main AND sub Venom.

Neat little alternate route from midscreen for a similar setup: (round start position)2K clS[3] xx SQV, 669 jKSHD 6H xx K set into the same oki The S ball from that position allows for a 2D[1] xx CR, 6P BH style followup. Didn't get a chance to test spacing restrictions, but it definitely works from round start position. A neat little alternative if you get mid to corner carry off clS. Also, for this setup and the previously discussed H > K setup, taking a step back before the jK BH helps keep it consistently blitz safe, as well as giving the right spacing to loop back into the same setup off the low. This is especially useful vs characters where the 6H xx SQV 5P IAD extension isn't possible. Ending with just 6H xx HQV can leave you too far forward where the H ball will be off screen and won't connect from 2D xx CR 6P if you go repeat this too many times. Taking that step back ensures that this setup can be looped indefinitely and be relatively safe from the common defensive options. Ladies and gentlemen, we have corner setplay. Now to find something dirty and blitz safe midscreen.....

Blacksnake gave Novril a bunch of good advice on this matchup on Twitter. Here's a rough transcript of what he said: If he sits back, summon in the air to force him to approach. Venom zoning beats Ky, and he should be forced to move on Venom. Venom is looking to convert those risks into his own offense. QV beats SE but loses to ciel SE so there is that. You can out poke. Don't summon or SA in dipper range. Just get away, you have faster pokes. Full screen you can play your game. If he rushes relentlessly use your normals. Dipper RC on your block is a big win for you. 50 meter for Ky pressure is not worth it. CR, 2S, 5K, and jump beat stun dipper.

I see what you mean. I'll mess with it later to see if I can get it consistent. He does do the same setup with jK instead later in the video around 32:38 after initially faking out the setup with a couple S CRs. Maybe both normals are viable? As a side note, this setup can also be done off of clS xx SQV 669 etc in the corner, but you NEED to use jH to hit just the K and S balls. Everything else hits the H ball and renders the setup useless. You'll also need to go for a late airdash chain for a high because jH's animation is too long to do a falling jS. Probably not the /best/ setup for potential 3 ball oki, but it's a decent option.

^That's been my go to oki off of clS AA jc jH. It gets a similar mixup to basic p ball oki. Anyway, there were a couple super nice corner setups that I picked up in the latest Fino vid. First one is off of a combo ending in HQV. In this case it was corner throw, 6H xx KQV, 5K 6P (BH) 6H xx HQV, but I'm sure there are infinite possibilities for combos that lead to this setup: Stuff xx HQV, K Set, rising jS (KBH): Low - 2D (1) xx SCR, 6P (HBH) 6H xx SQV, 5P IAD etc. High - gonna mess around in training mode tomorrow to figure out the most efficient option. Probably something like falling jS or late airdash jSH EDIT: Now that I'm messing around with this setup, I'm tring to figure out how he got jS to only put the K ball in motion. Every time I try it I hit both balls. I *think* he's making the ball get blocked before it can put the other into motion, but how he's doing this is beyond me. If anyone can provide any insight, it would be greatly appreciated. That being said, the setup still works with either jK or jH, albeit with tradeoffs in gaps either before or after the ball impact. For reference: https://youtu.be/0Y7E-wS2DNg at around 13:22 As you would expect from any setup Fino does, it is 100% blitz safe, even if you have to jury rig it with jK or jH. Another: Corner knockdown xx K set or QV, HCR (KBH), SCR (Charge BH), 5P (Charge BH) into frame trap shenanigans. A possibly better option than the usual P set SCR corner oki? Probably a lot more strict with spacing though.

I've been fiddling with safejumps to find a way to enforce a low while minimizing the risk of getting reversal thrown. Here's what I came up with: chain > 2D > K set, 669 jP [bH], mix up between falling jS/H and land small delay 2K. It functions as an excellent safejump as both the high and the low are safe from reversals (assuming you're holding downback during the small delay before the 2K). The big downside is that it's vulnerable to blitz either way. This 'can' be thrown but it's pretty difficult to do. You would have to duck under the oncoming K ball and throw as it passes overhead. This is very tight to do when set up right, and still leaves them open to the high. Thoughts? Anyone know of anything more efficient?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sjKAmWdJjvcZzB_2pt8ptTBi7raXHHtdC_qYZ6vMyfc/mobilebasic?pli=1 Here's the doc for anyone just looking to read it.

I wasn't expecting unanimous support like this. Awesome, anyone who's interested send your gmail to @novriltataki on Twitter (or if you're still holding out on making a Twitter for whatever reason, DM it to me here and I'll forward it to him) and he can add you to the doc to edit.

An idea has been tossed around on Twitter and I wanted to know if any of you guys would be interested. Novril proposed a Google doc "Venom cheat sheet" as a way to consolidate a lot of the tech floating around. The intention is for Venom players to update the doc as they run into useful tidbits on Youtube, Twitter, Nico, etc. and use it as a reference point. Basically it's for stuff that's too specific to go on the wiki and is at least mentioned here in the respective thread (IE a new setup would be posted in the setup thread along with the doc). Hopefully this will not only benefit existing Venom mains for ease of reference, but also lessen the burden on newcomers looking for what Venom is capable of in conjunction with the wiki. Thoughts? Would you guys be eager to contribute to a Google doc like this in an effort to grow and support the Venom army? Would it be a waste of time? Do you think it's the worst idea ever and anyone who supports such blasphemy should be burned at a stake made from pool cues?

I feel like this current loctest is moreso to get a feel for how people approach the new system mechanics and to get a handle on balancing the new characters. If we see any kind of overhaul to the current cast, it will definitely start to show at the next loctest. Everybody spam the JP Venoms on Twitter to demand AC 6P back in the loctest feedback.

My Japanese is borderline nonexistant, so I had to rely on Google translate. All he said according to that was "changed." Whether he thought it was better or worse was lost in translation.

So XrdR had/is having(?) its first loctests. All I heard about Venom on Twitter from Fino is that he "thinks" Dark Angel was changed a little more but other than that the same as 1.1. Should we really expect a huge overhaul to how Venom functions? Or for that matter any changes at all since, barring the lack of AC 6P, this is the "dream version" of Venom right now?