SnowMonkeyFunky

Did a little practice/testing against blockstring > drill > puddle summon ]S[ with the advice given by Dai at Apex as well as input from a couple Zato mains I spar with online a lot. Here's what I found. CR only kills summon if drill is blocked from the middle of Venom's hurtbox and forward. 2K is a lot more consistent (still kills little Eddie if drill is blocked farther back), faster (to the point where you can kind of react to Zato raising his hand on 214H), and you can use it to cancel into a ball set, fS to poke, or stinger/CR for more immediate space control. If you get stuck in that awkward range where drill triggers proximity guard and hitting a button/jumping/standing/doing anything gets hit, then you kind of have to deal with what comes next. If you're ballsy you can FD jump out, and even just raw jump in the opposite direction of the drill at some ranges. In general, just be aware of what blockstrings commonly lead to this kind of situation and preemptively FD to push yourself back into the drill, then act accordingly. If you IB the drill you can semi consistently IAD out of any attempted summons and punish, but if they read this and don't summon then you'll probably eat a 6P. This is a lot less consistent when cornered.

Shoutouts to accidentally discovering tech in a tournament match. I haven't had a chance to test its consistency, but reacting to a Bringer in the corner with jump back IB at the right timing should guarantee a throw on landing. Basically you want to trigger the active frames as early as possible and still have time to land and throw while Sol is in recovery. Your overall aerial arc from the block should look something like a KOF short hop. Edit: after some testing I can confirm that this does work consistently in the corner. It can even work midscreen if you jump forward then IB. Depending on height you may get a ground or an airthrow so be prepared to react to whatever you happen to get.

Thanks Dai. It was great meeting you and everyone else I got to talk to throughout the event. *This wasn't my first tournament; I've been to the past 2 EVOs to compete in TTT2 and this past year in BBCP, but this is my first time competing in any Guilty Gear. Can't wait to see everyone at Winter Brawl too. This weekend definitely gave me that push I need to get my ass off netplay and attend more tournaments.

Not necessarily. It just doesn't work at all ranges. The closer the 2H is blocked, the easier the 6H is to react to and 6P. If done at a longer range 6P may trade or flat out lose because the 6H will hit later and lower.

Could you possibly IB the burst to reduce pushback? I don't know if you can do that with bursts.

One thing I've been getting a lot of mileage out of is counter hitting Axl's 6H with 6P. One of my sparring partners that mains Axl likes to reset his pressure when he gets pushed out with 2H > 6H, and that is pretty easy to react to online. I can imagine that offline 6H can be reacted to in other, less obvious situations. I've been meaning to test this, but can our 6P counter a midrange jS (IAD in from a far midscreenish distance)? I know the chains have hurtboxes, but I'm not sure how far out they are or for how long.

What are some good setups for baiting bursts and DA? All I know right now is throw 5P 5P miniscule dash 6H is a burst safe combo, and that 2D goes under a good majority of (maybe all?) dead angles. Is clS level 4 for all three hits, or just the first? What is the best course of action if ball oki gets blitz shielded?

I already kind of did a write up on how to handle a combo after all three hits of clS involving superjumping for the majority of the cast. It's by no means a definitive guide, but it should help with what Hazard is having issues with. (The same problems plagued me and lead me to mess with this so much to begin with.) http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/9852-xrd-venom-combo-thread-updated-15-tentatively-done/?p=883650 TLDR; superjump then airdash for everyone but Potemkin, Leo, and Bedman. Those guys just regular neutral jump. Also stagger the hits after the airdash so that when you land you still have time to connect a 6H.

Time for another write up! So I got pretty sick of the variable timings and constant drops on jump canceled clS combos (cough Sol cough) and decided to test how super jumping instead affects timing. From what I can tell, it makes comboing from a full clS a LOT more consistent across the board, and eliminates a lot of the character specific timing. I managed to generalize the cast into 2-3 groups for how to juggle them. Here's what I found, using the following combo for reference. My reason for this starter in particular is that empty jump 2K is the most common way to land a full clS, though this applies anywhere all three hits of clS can connect. 2K clS [3] sjc (28) 66 jS jH jD 6H (Corner extension: xx S QV 6P BH 6H xx ball set oki) Overall the timing for the sjc and the air dash seems pretty universal, as opposed to normal jump timings (IE get a feel for every nuance of each weight class) The air chain is staggered, and has different delay quirks depending on character. ~ indicates slight delay > indicates immideate chain Slight delay all hits (jS ~ jH ~ jD): Sin, Faust, Millia, Sol, May, Potemkin*, Slayer, I-No, Axl, Ramlethal, Venom, Leo*, Zato, Bedman** Slight delay for first two hits only (jS ~ jH > jD): Ky, Chipp Why these two?: -Ky is in his own awkward weight class where delaying the jD will otg when doing a super jump. Regular jump is an option, but I found it more consistent to do the superjump and just not delay the jD. -Chipp has a really narrow vertical hurtbox when being juggled, so doing the usual delay into S QV 6P BH will make the ball go over him and whiff completely. Immediately chainging the jD pops him up a bit higher, allowing for the corner followup to be possible, although this makes timing the 6H a bit more strict compared to other characters. *Normal jump out of clS instead of superjump. Also, can do dash jK jS jH jD between the first air chan and 6H for extra corner carry. If already in the corner, skip that part because it causes heavier damage scaling and in turn makes the entire combo do less damage. Works on crouch confirms because these fat guys get hit by the the whole clS when ducking. **Same as above, but he CAN NOT be hit by the cornered S QV 6P BH. The ball will soar over him, like with Chipp given full delay. Can't find a way to compensate. Alternative from cornered 6H is P QV 5P BH 6H. So there you have it, instead of worrying about half a dozen different timings and inputs for clS stuff, there's 3 general classes; the big guys that get hit by clS no matter what, Ky and Chipp, and everyone else. Note that everything above is based off of my own knowledge, experience, and feel for the game. If you know of more damaging extensions feel free to share but I wanted to make a very generalized guide for this situation. Also, if you feel that you get better results with different timings than what's listed above, by all means go for it. I'm not gonna stop you if you're more comfortable with something like regular jump on Ky or not delaying the air chain for anyone. I also might toss together a potato quality video just so everyone can hear my inputs and understand the kind of delay I'm going for. That's for another night though.

I abuse the hell out of 2D's low profile, and get a lot of milage out of raw YRC as a way to fuck with the opponent's timing and react to what they're attempting.

S flash kick is fast, but invuln doesn't carry through to active frames. It trades a lot. HS is slower but invuln for days. EDIT: He has a reversal super as well, 632146H. I think Sin has a DP as well (623S), but it has really short range. Not sure about its application as a legitimate get off me tool though but it's worth testing. So far it looks really good. I think one point you should bring up for midscreen disc oki is meaty 5K chained into either 6K or 2K, as it beats jump out attempts.

I know this is a work in progress at the moment, but just so you know Leo doesn't have any reversal options from his stance because he never wakes up in backturn. He has to get into it from neutral or off a setup. Also Faust's guessing game super (236236S?) and Potemkin's screen (632146H) are used as "get off me" moves as well so those may he worth putting on the list to test.

I'm glad everyone seems cool with the idea of a Venom lobby. When are you guys available? I can get online by around 7-8ish EST almost every night. I can be on considerably earlier on Tuesdays and Sundays. On the subject of reaction air throws, I almost never time or space it correctly. I've gotten into the habit of OSing with jP so I get CH less often, but I mess it up so consistently that I seldom attempt it. Where exactly do I want them in relation to Venom to get the airthrow out? How do you guys go about attempting airthrows (IE spacing, inputs, etc)?

This matchup is killing me. One of my sparring partners that normally uses Axl picked her up and holy hell this is a frustrating fight. j2H alone is a nightmare. Unantiairable, especially when used directly above Venom's head. I seem to get more milage out of air throw in this matchup than others, but nothing can discourage her from jumping. By the time I have room to attempt a 6H to keep May still, she's already at peak height and coming down fast with that damned anchor. 6P is useless unless you keep them still with YRC. Air to air, Venom gets killed because all of her air normals have ungodly hitboxes. I'd like to comment on ground game if she didn't spend 99% of her time jumping. 5D is "punishable" by 2S (good luck online), and dolphins "can" be hit by a preemptive 6P (again, good luck online). P ball set 6P BH works wonders when you have breathing room.

I don't think holdbutton teleport would benefit QV since charge balls get so much milage. Maybe being able to cancel the hit into teleport ala Dubious Curve? AC 6P would be a godsend though. There have been too many situations where I've died to current 6P's blah hitbox. Enough theorycrafting though. I wonder if organizing a Venom forum lobby on Xrd one night would be a feasible idea? We all seem to be on the east coast, a good portion in the tristate area, so lag 'should' be minimal. It would be a good place for everyone to exchange advice and little tricks in a live engaging environment. I know I would benefit a lot from having better players critique how I approach the character.

The timing varies depending on the character. I've said this before elsewhere, but IMO the easiest way to do it is to input 8, react to reaching their level, then 66 air chain. Ram is an oddity because she's a lightweight, and has what I feel to be the smallest hurtbox horizontally while being huge vertically (in the air at least). Most standard combos work on her, but she was definitely one I had trouble with when figuring out combos post K ball oki. In general, for her what I do is keep it simple by either ending in 2D or X QV > 2 ball oki until I land a hit that I know for sure I can capitalize heavily on.

That's on normal block. You could also reversal, but every character that I can think of with a usable reversal is better off either throwing or mashing something like 2P to interrupt and get a small combo.

3-4 frame moves consistently beat out 5H > 6H, as does a well timed throw. 5+ frame normals tend to be a little iffy, trading more often than not.

I was fiddling with some of the new (to me at least) oki options involving HS ball and teleport, IE something like 2D xx K ball xx HS ball, meaty fS BH xx teleport. I don't know if I'm just botching the timing, but it feels like if you try to go low (post teleport land 2K) you're always open to get thrown. Is there any way to to prevent reversal throw in that situation besides going high with jS or delay j236S 99% of the time?

Arguably true. The characters that give Venom the most trouble are those that can get around or absolutely shut down ball set in neutral. Those kinds of matchups become games where whoever lands the first clean hit dictates the pace of the match. I mentioned this specifically in the vs. Zato thread because of how drills can eliminate so many of Venom's options, but it also applies to Millia, Chipp, etc. Dai put it best when he said it's just the nature of how Venom plays. Going back to teef's video, one particular setup shocked me with how simple and effective it is. Specifically: Stuff > 2D xx K ball xx HS ball, meaty fS xx teleport into 50/50. I actually burst out laughing when I got this down in training. I'd imagine it can be Blitz Shielded, but it's so unique and whacky that the blitz option won't occur to most players. EDIT: I just realized how similar it is in concept to the one discussed earlier by GodPress and Poultrygeist. Teef's seem simpler albeit not as air tight.

Oh damn. I am a plethora of misinformation tonight. I tried figuring out other setups into a blocked 6HS but every other gatling option is easily escapable or mashable. So much for that idea.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but 5HS > 6HS is a legitimate frametrap against anyone without a 3 or 4 frame normal. Iffy on 5 frame moves. Sometimes CH, sometimes stuffed, sometimes traded. Could be a useful option to get BT from a blockstring against a good portion of the cast.

Oh my bad. Misread the data. Still, dash through shenanigans are still viable off of frame advantage or if you get them to hesitate.

According to the wiki's frame data, BT forward dash has 13 frames of invuln. You could probably use that to get around mashing or when you're + after a blocked BT K, S, or HS. EDIT: I misread the frame data. There is no invuln on BT 66.

I-No and Slayer. I know Leo's damage is gonna come from hard reads and such. I just suck at meatying BT K so for now I'll use BT P as a pressure starter, at least until I have them respectful/scared.