Amegashita

Yea that's what I'm saying. :O Lol, sorry if it was unclear.

I mean if your opponent is cornered and you're full screen away 236c doesn't go full screen. It stops one character's length away from the corner, meaning if you want to hit someone that's cornered and full screen away with 236c you still have to use wind. So 236c only goes full screen midscreen for some reason.

Just off the top of my head from watching Soniti experiment: 5b, j.2ad, j.b, isn't a block string so you can get dped between the 5b and the j2ad. That's pretty big. Whiffing 6a is like whiffing a really fast recovering dp. Comparable to whiffing nu's 1.0 dp, minus 10 frames except you don't get fatal countered, you just get hit. That's big. 2b, 5b, 2b, 5b gatling being gone is ginormous, so now the mixup is 2b, 5b, (6b), j.a/ 3c. Using 3c without 50 meter means you have to use 2 wind to convert rather than 1 wind from the 2b, 5b, 2b, 5b gatling while landing j.a means mediocre damage, and oh god the damage is terrible. Barrel lotus getting 2 nerfs is huge too. The wind amplification effect from it lasts shorter, ALSO using sword iris when you have barrel lotus up means that you have to setup barrel lotus again in order to get the wind amp effect. Also, 236c goes full screen EXCEPT when they're in the corner. so like if you have someone full screen away in the corner 236c will only hit them if you use wind. The damage is horrendous. Like absolutely horrendous. I see why Japan isn't feeling Rachel all that much right now.

The amount of stuff Rachel lost is amazing.

Ram 5p is 4f as well.

Yea, but he wants to be able to not spectate after losing a match so he doesn't have to go through that.

Its the small things though, I just know coming from a KOF background Millia would appeal more to my background than other characters since movement is simple, and chainable short normals. I could go on an entire tirade on why it makes sense for there to be more Millia players than Ram players, but I'll keep it short and say: Comparatively, Millia is an easier character to execute effectively than other members in the cast.

Two words, execution barrier. Less execution - more players.

I know it's not good to be comparing players and what not, but I always liken Hasegawa's I-no to N-O's Rachel, and U-zen's I-no to Rinhime's Rachel. U-zen (Rinhime) has way better combos and setups, but Hasegawa (N-O) is a more solid player with better neutral and wins a lot more because of it.

While true, based on what I've personally heard and what I've seen. It doesn't change my feelings, just kind of reinforces things currently. Oh well time will tell if these tears will dry ;-;

Rachel.... I'm gonna cry

So basically Rachel oki is still relatively the same as it was in 1.1 at least off normal starters? That's pretty good.

How exactly does the vortexing on Rachel's 3c work now? Is it something like the more times 3c hit the move vortexes in? Cause in this video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr-jAMN589s&t=4m40s )at time 4:40, Zero does 1 hit of 3c then cancels into frog and Amane doesn't seem to get pulled in. Bug? One time thing? IDK so any answers would be pretty sweet I guess.

Well we already have something for whiff punishing, impish ghoulia. Against mu/koko I guess it could be kind of useful, but most Kokonoe's don't bother trying to battle Rachel in a zoning match, plus just having 3 well spaced poles on the screen is pretty good for providing the threat of sword iris so I wouldn't go out of my way to use barrel lotus just to whiff punish something in the future. I'd just use it to zone or get in. Also, honestly i'm like 90% sure the lotus would be kind of useless against Hazama since getting lobellia's out against a good Hazama is the hardest thing possible.

I kind of agree, Rachel will be fine, albeit not absolutely, but probably fine. I guess oki off of a 5b/2b starter is fine but off of a 5a, or more importantly, off a j.2ad, b, is way worse. It wasn't the best in 1.1 but it gave you kind of okay spacing. The 4b though looks like it puts puts you pretty close to the opponent or rather doens't push you away at all. Like in the set between Emurisu and N-O, they were rolling out of the short starter oki setups very consistently. Its definitely early and i'm sure the Rachel's over in Japan will figure out ways to counter act it, but it as of right now securing knockdown off a short starter looks much worse in my opinion.

I don't know what to think about 2.0 Rachel. So combos being more consistent to land is a good thing but her damage and oki got destroyed pretty badly, coupled with the fact that wind regen is pretty horrible. It's not looking good, but it could be worse i guess.

Gonna have to take advantage of the new 6a jump cancel.

Doesn't it seem that 5c is faster now? I know in that video the rachel was doing j.a, j.b, 5cc and I know I could never get that to work in 1.1. edit. nvm, don't think i saw the 5b. edit, edit. nvm I'm right, you can combo j.b/j.c straight into 5cc. Don't remember that being possible in 1.1

Wow that wind regen. Just wow. However, that "vortex" effect on 3c definitely makes some combos more consistent so yay

I'm pretty surprised N-O thinks the Kokonoe matchup is that bad for rachel. I personally think otherwise, but N-O is a way better player than me and faces way better Kokonoe's than I could dream of so he definitely has his valid reasons for it.

The 2nd 5b, j.c, j.236a, 2d, makes it so the character your comboing is low enough to the ground that you can finish the combo. If you keep doing 3d, the character will end up being to high to continue comboing reliably. Well if you delay the 5cc enough after the frog, the opponent should get wall splatted pretty high allowing you to hit them with j.c. This could make it easier to land combos on certain characters than on others, Kokonoe being the first to come to mind. 5b, 5cc, into 5b, j.c, j.236a doesn't work on Koko, cause she's pretty small so the j.c whiffs, and she techs out. I don't know of any list of what combo routes work on what characters and what not, but that's something you can find out on your own in training mode.

For the 3rd route, you 2d after the 236b hits. I used to practice a route similar to this, but i don't use it much. If you wind to early, they hit the ground before you recover, and if you do it too late they tech before you recover. So just wait for the lobelia to hit, and then wind. IF that was your problem, not sure what else could be the issue.

I'm in a good mood today, anyone want to help ruin it with some netplay :O

Just check the frame data, or go into training mode and see what you can do if you block those normals. You'll definitely retain the information better if you test it out yourself, rather than having someone tell you how to punish it.

Any east coast players on atm?