Dude Butts

err... I really think you should read some of my posts on page one. We're in complete agreement, my analogy was just meant to say there's obviously more to piano than practicing scales, but if you want to be a concert pianist you have to subject yourself to all the things that make it a piano.

I can't wait to tell the next concert pianist I meet how the need to grind scales for thousands of hours makes the piano inaccessible and bad by design

if you're not gonna read a word anyone else says and just barf your opinion into our mouths over and over, at least read this: if you don't like to practice things over and over in training mode for hours, you'll never be good at this game so it's probably best to quit now. if you think games with narrow execution windows are intrinsicly bad because of design, you won't even like this game (or most if not all 2d fighting games), so it's best to not waste your time with it and quit now.

I'm sticking with the ps3 port for now. I'm gonna wait a few months holding out for a pc port before I plunk down on a ps4.

This is really uncalled for. I'll be frank. I can only speak for myself, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the sentiment echoed by a lot of fighting game fans if not the majority of people who loves this game and were drawn to it because of its difficulty, and how that contributes to spreading the skill gap: If you cannot perform something as consistently as your opponent, you are not as good as him/her and you deserve to lose to them. It is not the game's fault that you are bad, it is your fault that you are bad. It is not bad design, it was a calculated decision with very good reasons behind it. Stop complaining and get over your fear of learning or find a new game.

This. I'm sorry, but all this convinces me of is that you're just not very good yet. I guarantee the better you get at fighting games the more you will disagree with this statement. It is not difficulty, it's specificity. A reversal is when you do a special move on the first frame it's available. 2 frames is technically twice as generous as it needs to be. It's just not that hard. Just like 1 and 2 frame FRCs, all of us complained when we weren't good yet until we could do them to the point that they were not hard at all, which was around the point that we realized that hitting them was consistent with the things we actually like about fighting games. If your major stance is that you should always get what you think you want without having to perform or time it correctly, I think you should seriously consider playing another game.

I don't think you understand, I'm not describing an active conscious ability. It's a permanent heightened overall cognizance and totally passive. Don't you feel like you have an overall heightened awareness about bullet hell shmups that you didn't have even 1 or 2 years after you started playing them? You're better at them now while completely relaxed than you used to be completely nerve wracked, right?

the classic tools have always been j.p, j.h, and note. build 25% meter and YRC an HCL and airdash in immediately after it with an overhead string of your choice, get a guaranteed start to i-no's scary close game for the mere price of 25% meter.

not only is it not terrible, backdash is probably your best catch-all option. 99% of the time you think you want to reversal dp, a reversal backdash could actually get you so much more, and much more safely.

Please, more technical stuff! Also yeah the audio sampling rate for the ps3 version is unbearably low, but I was thankful for the smaller download size on release night :v

Actually I didn't start playing fighting games seriously until 2008 or 2009. It wasn't so long ago that I had the exact same complaints as you, but I can tell you that if you continue to spend a lot of time playing these types of games, you might have a change of heart too. After a lot more experience with these games, your brain will start to comprehend all of 60 frames per second as the resolution of information that it truly is, frame by frame. It happens over such a gradual amount of time that you won't ever really notice it happening, but eventually you will come to realize it has happened. Your hands will be so comfortable and in-tune with what you're seeing and hearing that everything will be heightened to the conscious level: reaction time, ability to plan the next sequence of actions, and the ability to predict what the enemy is going to do. This isn't something specific to fighting games, it's something your brain does after a very long period of exposure to really anything (some experts speculate it's in the ballpark of 10,000 hours). Ask anyone who's been doing anything for a really long time about it and they might share a similar anecdote. In regards to single-frame accuracy, I've gone from wanting more leniency (including reversal timings, frcs, command interpreting, links vs. chains, you name it) to actually preferring brutal just frame commands... and I'm not even that good yet. Less leniency actually means more specificity. The ability to be more specific with your commands is ALWAYS a good thing, especially as the aggressor. Every frame of specific input is just another potential option. Each potential missed link is also a potential frame trap, tech trap, burst bait, throw tick, and so on. Not only are narrow input windows not hard to hit after a while, they actually create opportunities for you. At some point you might even come to think this is a really big part of what makes fighting games fun: doing it! My point isn't that I'm right and you're wrong, or that I'm good and you're bad. Actually, it's meant to be a point of comfort, because you're going to go through the same natural progression that everyone goes through whether you want to or not, so long as you keep playing. Not only do I think you can reach the stage where 1-2 frame windows don't seem hard to you anymore, I think you absolutely will reach that stage whether you want to or not!

May I ask how long you've been playing fighting games?

It's just as much about execution as it is about mindgames. What else draws you to fighting games if it's not the fun of operating your character? There are plenty of collectible cardgames, tic-tac-toe, turn based strategy games, and even texas hold 'em to curb you over if you don't want to throw technique into the competition. Also you have divekick and niddhogg. It's like a guitar soloist vs. dj ipad from capcom cup, a lot of the draw both player and spectator side is performing it and seeing if you can pull it off.

oh I forgot dead angle attack also. For what it's worth, I would trade the ability to do unsafe reversal moves entirely for the ability to just defend even 50% of the time.

in games with massive reversal windows you can just mash them out. A good player, even one who can get wakeup reversals 99% of the time won't be able to get one during pressure unless they know exactly where it breaks. This is what makes sf4's close game random garbage, even simple blockstrings are broken by reversal mash. Some characters don't have any "true" blockstrings that can't be reversalled through. In this game, you must first learn to utilize your REAL defensive options before reversals are even viable. Regardless, the actual defensive options are your better options 9 times out of 10. These options include just defend, blitz shield, faultless defense, burst, and backdash. Some of these options, either at the gain or cost of a bit of meter, offer much the same rewards as a reversal with far less or none of the risk.

can only be done on ps4 version currently

It can be more accessible without helping make the close game become a random shitfest. This is a game with real defensive options, having reversals be frame specific makes going for one even riskier than usual, making them absolute last ditch options. You can make the game accessible and more in line to how it's meant to be played without making it "guess the shoryuken" SFIV.

anyone who says there isn't slowdown in the ps3 version needs to do a combo with chipp's kunai overdrive

Having super narrow reversal frames is one of the things I like the most about the game, and I really respect arcsys for making the decision. The correct answer to this thread is practice, practice, practice. People had the same issues with FRCs being too specific, but the answer to that was always the same too.

dog I told you about this forum back when you were playing vamp savior. I've been coming here for years. I wrote this thread: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/topic/4705-jump-install-from-jump-discovery/

I'm far from a vet, but after I got home I played around w/ Sin for about 3 hours. My initial verdict is that he's a very difficult character to play and an especially bad character to try to learn GG with. He shits out damage when the conditions are just right, but his mixup opportunities seem generally really bad compared to the rest of the cast and converting pokes to bigger damage requires a very high ability to hit confirm. This is one of the very few cases that I would honestly just pick another character to start with. I'm not saying he's a bad character (too soon to tell anyway), just that I think it's gonna be a longer, harder road than it needs to be. I would actually consider picking up i-no for a little while. She went from being one of the most difficult characters to play well to being the most brainded easiest (imo). You can learn a couple of good mixup strings and loop knockdowns with really good oki super easily with her. I think if you spent a few days in training mode learning some hi-low strings you would quickly get to the point that you could keep your mind ahead of your inputs and keep your mixups fresh. She doesn't break pressure as easily as sol or ky or chipp, but you would be able to be on offense far more often.