Destin

. Are you sure about that last part? Because sendu is rocking out sol combos that do like 200+ damage off throw RC. If that's with forced proration I had no idea sol could do that sort of damage

Anyone that has time to wait out the slow could probably do it.

I actually think there is an advantage to somewhat static tier lettering. We could go all over the place arbitrary with our categories, but semi-static ones, being either within a series (all gg games) or within a genre has it's uses for cross game comparison. If this is based on a static lettering system for all major fighting games, this gg would go from A+ to C+.

I mean it's subjective of course, but I always felt that S should be used when there is a "god tier" and there doesn't really seem like that in this. The gap between the top 4 in this seems significantly less than the top for in #R for example.

I thought gabe cracked his bed and beat him?

I mean, for my taste S is usually leaps and bounds above the rest. I don't really think there is an S here, and if there is it's only going to be eddie millia, that's a big if. It feels like A to C to me. Very similar but S tier is usually the characters that just make a bunch of others almost unplayable, I don't think that exists here. Of course, your S could just mean "the best".

You're getting trolled, you should know better.

I meant more, there are combo situations where the IK is the only way to finish, where with that amount of meter the character would be unable to kill otherwise?

Her oki doesn't seem that oppressive, rather tame really.

WIth sword s her pokes are really good and lead into huge damage on crouching hit, counter. Is there anyone else who gets that sort of meterless damage at that range? Sin maybe? Ky gets a little.

So for some of these characters is it actually the only way to finish off for a kill?

My competition was often the best players in the country. That didn't make the moves any less stupid. When my moves are completely invincible, not particularly punishable, and kill you in one hit that is not me out thinking them. Are you seriously arguing that winning with a higher tier character takes the same amount of skill as winning with a lower tier character, lol! And I bring up gg vs sf because if one was looking for notarity or money, that would be the appropriate venue. Victory is definitely relative, and because there is very little in the way of tangible rewards for victory, there is considerably less benefit for rocking out that higher tier. What is that victory giving you? Does it make ya feel good? Bump up those numbers on your ranked chart statistic? Despising something doesn't make it less true. Yes, the whole point of tiers is that if he had devoted similar time to a stronger character, he would have very very likely done better. Playing a low tier does not instantly elevate someone above a high tier player, but when looking at the results, it is one factor that you weigh in when determining the players skills at mind games, spacing, knowledge of the game ect. Now, it is not a weighted factor in determining ones skill at winning, as that is self defined! Yes actually, age is a factor. As we grow and hopefully mature, we are more able to determine the actual value of things we do in our life. When young, getting those V's may matter as you use it as a gauge for your own ability and self worth, I would hope later in life it would have very little effect on your ego. There is nothing wrong with playing a char who is high tier, I would argue that for the most part in gg tiers shouldn't have a large impact on your character decision. I am sure you are able to see fighting game fundamentals in spite of character choice. Inability to see that could be someone underestimating the advantage their character holds, or overestimating the disadvantage their character has. But to say it isn't a weight in the discussion is silly.

When I played XX slayer I sure felt strong, but that ended up being a pretty shallow part of the enjoyment. Like the pure raping of people got pretty boring after 10 minutes, and I knew it wasn't "me" out thinking them. There is a lot said about this "play to win" mentality which seems short sighted. I mean, we are playing to have fun. Unless games hit the point where they are legitimate monetary sources (as of now they are an incredibly inefficient source), we are all at heart trying to enjoy ourselves. Some people enjoy winning sure, but that is just a piece of the puzzle. Why are you playing GG and not SF? If you are only playing to win, why choose this specific game? IF just to win, you would bash on scrubs. But many of us actively seek out advanced competition, increasing our chances of losing. We have correctly deduced that deeper mindgames between two players lead to greater enjoyment. What we really enjoy is solving problems, coming up with strategies, adapting on the fly. Now in some games it is true that higher tier characters are really the only way you can play the game in any capacity. Extremely powerful moves can reduce the moveset of weaker characters to almost nothing, forcing repetition, leaving only the top tiers with any variety of moves to counter the other top tiers. I played some Garou against old Kono Walchuck, and I played rock. 99% of my attack moves was stand jab hitconfirm light super because well, that was the only move rock had in his arsenal that could maybe do anything against the very powerful top tiers. In CvS2, powerful pokes and roll cancels gutted the usable moves of middle to lower tier characters. This isn't the case in guilty gear (pre AC, I don't know anything about AC really). Low tier might lose because of damage or health, but they almost always still have a very large variety of tactics moves and depth that need to be used to succeed. Assuming we can accept that, you can draw some interesting conclusions. First, it is entirely possible to with just a small bit of mental effort to realize the difference in value of a victory over a good matchup and a bad matchup. Also, it's possible to see improvement over absolute success. If I see FAB go 4.5/5.5 against OGAWA, I know for certain FAB is the better player. As in, he is using superior strategies, adapting faster, reading his opponent better, all those things we strive for and enjoy in fighting games. By applying our own knowledge of matchups and relative tier listing, it is possible for us to understand our own level and improvement without a constant stream of number 1 character mirror matches. In the reload days of Guilty gear, KBNova was one of the best players in the country. Many regarded him as the best, he won many many tournaments and majors. That being said, other players were also doing the rounds and were at least in the same league as KBNova as far as tournament wins. What made him stand out is that he was playing anji, who was bottom 2 in #R. It didn't take a rocket science for most of the scene to be able to correctly deduce that it was taking KBNova more work and skill to get where he was. We were all capable of applying that knowledge to his results, and we respected him more as a player for that. If he had been playing say Slayer there would have likely been absolutely no contest, he would have likely won every US based tournament. But even though he didn't, it was understood the skill that went into playing Anji as well as he did. This isn't even a respect the underdog situation. This is, it takes cognitive dissonance to not realize which player is playing the game smarter. The absolute value of winning in a game like this is pretty low. If you really wanted to make money, at the very least play SF instead of GG. If you are above the age of 20 and are really worried about how all your peers view your video game abilities, then I promise you there are other life skills and values you could work on that would make you infinitely more happy than grinding out that top tier in GG. So assuming it's not that, why not learn to determine the relative value of a win and play someone that has a toolset that emphasizes strategy and adaption you enjoy?

That REALLLLLLLLY depends on the game. I would say, more often top tier characters have a very small amount of EXTREMELY powerful options, forcing other characters to use even less because of how restricting those options are. Luckily, guilty gear does not often suffer from this. Very often weaker characters have even more potential options because their moves are better balanced amongst themselves. There is move balance, and character balance. Guilty gear has some of the best move balance I have ever seen, there is a point for almost every button on every character, crazy!

I was just saying, I don't think combo into IK is a particularly important mechanic.

You know, I thought about it. I don't think a single person on here complained about millia's outfit, I-no outfit (or ripping off her shirt), Jam's outfit, as they were all fitting of their character design/personality. Dizzy's just seemed really off, and somewhat embarrassing

Well I am almost positive you can get around that by waiting out the RC slow, but perhaps if you still attack them during the slowdown it actually does apply the proration.

#R Johnny is extremely high ceiling at the highest level (in comparison to other gg characters), but to get him to American tournament level isn't that difficult.

RC removes throw proration and replaces it with it's own proration. I'm pretty sure almost every char can do 20% off it's proration.

I no has very weird movement and bizarre pokes that would make her much more difficult for me. I'm not saying venom would be a breeze, but ino's movement is enough to set her aside. Probably bed man too.

Uhh yeah I'm going to roll my eyes at the whole feminist debate. Dizzy's outfit feels lazy, juvenile, and grossly out of character. We have seen two sprites over the year that I preferred (pirate and gown), and I hope in the future through dlc or otherwise I am able to play a version of character that doesn't look stupid.

While venom might be in absolute terms more difficult, because his skill set is SO dramatically different than i-no's... Each could be relatively easier depending on what the player is comfortable with. I could pick up venom in 1/4 the time it would take me to play I-no.

There is such thing as a nash equilibruim in game theory that would loosely state how often you should use the moves based on the opponents character, rather than the opponents mindset. All good fighting game players move towards this equilibrium as they play more.

We already have stripper whore character (ram) so it seems both of those angles are taken. Plus, there exists more dresses in the world than the wedding dress.

I failed to see how you can just play ino and do better. They emphasize such different play styles... I think venom is probably better in this one, or very close.