A.X.I.S.

I'd also note that near the corner, if you confirm 1 hit of 5A you can do: 5A>5C>heartcar>5C>2C>bubble>6C>22C>5C>air combo for 3.6k Don't know if its on the list but it should be known that 5A>5C works. Not sure if 2A>5C works though but I wouldn't be surprised if it does. So yeah WoZ shrink the first page a bit.

Its weird Osuna, I haven't did heavy testing but I do know a few cases in which you have to 4D whiff 22D. Mostly in combo's that end with collider but they tech before hitting the ground. Also wow you are right, there is no 6B combo's. I'll get on that soon. Or check TagerTime's Doc and hope he has some. I hate Tager's 6B now...so so terrible.

FYI when I made the Tager combo thread and I was making combo's I saved space by doing this: 5A>5B/2B>3C>22D So in essence you can save so much more space if you just did: 5A>5B/2B>3C *note: you can do 5B and 2B in this combo. You'd save so much space.

I B Bubble so I can run and jump in, I found C bubble to be better overall since it stops jump outs, but I like to bait reversals and DP's with B bubble so I can punish it for 5k.

In some situations you have to IB 360B instead of IB 360A, normally on punishable special moves. Just throwing that out there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqaBj_JC0OM&feature=player_profilepage#t=153s Here is my shitty plat playing shitty and winning anyways.

Actually that would be hella strong. Not only can we use it for yomi air throws, we can use it for cross up shenanigans. We can do some really mean and cool stuff with it.

That is pretty evil, I wanted a 5C CA but then it can be low profiled.

Terra is too slow to be used as a wake up tactic, if you make it like 720 flash then it will make people too scared to move though and act stupid.

Ok only because its you Ve, most people I would read nod and let this discussion go on. 1.make it 6F his 5A is already good, if it was 5F it would be too good, 2A change is welcome though. 2. I rather it be fatter than just taller. 3. That would make 5C amazing, we can actually have an extended bnb with it which would be pretty good, now if 6C was 26F instead of 29F I'd die happier. 4. I want more active frames on this move and a hit stun increase on the ground. 5. Yes this would be so good! 6. 4D is good the way it is, if anything give me frame advantage on it instead of just it being even on block. 7. It's his come back mechanic and a really good reversal...no sir. 8. Give it faster startup and more invul and it would be hella useful. 9. its startup is good the way it is, if people anticipate a jump they are gonna jump anyways, besides it would just get in the way of properly timing it. 10. Just give it more untech time, screw RCing it lol. 11. Give us less recovery and more untech time so we can follow up and it will be gold. 12. Yes please. 13. Yes this so much. (Make it closer to CS1 Ragna 22C as well as frame advantage too.) 14. This is ok, it should act a bit different from everyone else though. 15. Ok I am bromancing you for this one. 16. I kinda see where you are going with this...I am kinda ok with it. 17. I am ok with this as well, long as I get to special cancel it. 18. Hell yeah. On the idea of 2D it would be more solid if it had faster start up and if we had a feint for it that pulls in when someone is magnetized. I just wanna throw this one out for shits.

If Tager's 2D had 17F start up it would be hella useful in closing the gap.

Well then they know how to antagonize a player base don't they?

Manta you know how amazing that is? It would mean 3C at max range will always get damage since 5B always connects at that range. it would also give us a stronger BnB. 5A>5B>3C>5B>5C>6A>623C>whatever you want. Also if 5B had more hitstun it can combo into 2C at point blank making it all the better. Manta why you get my hopes up man?

I'd love it if 5B had more untech time, so I can always get a punish if I stagger into 5B and catch them airborne.

Tager doesn't need wallbound. Even if we had it our combo rate would turn it to crap. Although it would be nice if 5D wall bound on air hit but again we wouldn't be able to pick it back up.

TK swallow moon can also be used as a mix up. Instant overheads are really nice right? TK swallow moon it. For Carl I always followed one simple rule: Do not get sandwiched. Play safe and lame do not get touched by Carl, him making you block can lead to you getting sandwiched.

You can always do 6C>22C>5C>6A>heartcar>3C instead. That way you get to do the 400 damage 22C always do and get oki.

When Lumin claims you your personal value drops. Right now you are only worth 5$, when you come to MI you will be worth much less.

Its not garbage Michi...just treasure.

6C>22C is always better, the only reason you can't always do it is because of proration. Delay the sally, do it with the same delay as you would when you try to go for 6C>22C. That's how I do it of course I always super jump to do it. Oh also you have to super jump to make it work off sally other wise you will end up doing j.B>j.C>jc>j.C or just misss the air combo.

You are wrong in this case, In stagger state, or just hitting a grounded opponent after so many hits the combo resets so even if they decide not to tech you can actually reset the combo, so again you should you not tech there can be a actual punish for it. And if you tech we can do something like that. This will actually give Tager a fear factor to me. I'd love to hear Osuna and Ve's opinion on this since them 2 are grouchy old men. :D

I guess I'll do a write up for this too. Expect some highly detailed info for later. Things I learned the hard way: Do not use your 5B as a poke you will die doing it. Do not approach him head on without him blocking anything, his everything will probably stuff you. Your air pokes>his air pokes. Dead spike pressure is a threat, IB his pokes and jump if you read a dead spike. Usefulness in items: Bat is very good here use it if he gets too reckless. Cat bat has very useful mind games you can jump forward air back dash back and use it to see if he is blocking or DPing, if he is DPing then run up 5C etc etc 5k. Hammer is ok you don't really need fast fall here, feels like you won't really need this item much in this match. (Hammer is awesome but in my experience it doesn't feel as useful as other items.) Frying pan is as usual only good on the offense, you can mystic momo AA him with it and it has some mean CH stun lol. Missles are the best item in this fight, it makes Ragna move in ways he doesn't want to avoid them and it has enough blockstun for you not to get ID'd. Bombs are hit and miss. 5B is the hardest part of the match up. Second hardest is dealing with ID. Both can be done easily, use bubble oki and confirm that he blocked the bubble then stick out a poke. Watch for ID's since bubble has so little hitstun on IB that he can mash ID out. Once you got that part down then its all about dealing with his mix up and pressure. If you can't block Ragna then you are going to lose...a lot. As for 5B, do not try to beat it, too inconsistent and you will sooner be in the corner blocking dead spikes than actually beating it, there are things to beat it posted before me but they are all risky. Just avoid the 5B, this at least makes him not want to get wild and throw it out. TL:DR Missle, bat, and cat bat are awesome in this match up and hammer is ok. Ragna 5B/ID is broke. L2Block Plat 5B sucks.

I like the discussion here but I am gonna chime in tell you guys what I want from Tager. All I want for Tager is consistency, instead of a pile of clusterfuck to make a character to crap on noobs, I want moves that are actually answers to problems. For example Hazama spam chains? I want to be able to remedy that whether its a gameplay change or if it's a rocket fist or something. I want gattlings that can actually lock down and give me legitimate pressure that my opponent has to actually guess out of instead of sleep eat a gadget then do it again. I want a legit punish for this type of play. I want magnetism to not be so inconsistent and more geared to tech punishes and sloppy footsies. (it is sub par in both IMO.) I want Tager to actually have solid oki off a 360 and gadget to leave them in crumble state instead of what we have now. I want Tager's pokes to be faster and some to have solid hitboxes. To me this would make Tager a decent character in this game, he will still have lame shitty match ups but with changes that support this he will actually have perhaps a harder time being lamed out which is all that I want. I don't like going to specifics but this is the gist of what I want.

Mucky you think way too hard. Tourney nerves make me drop combos hell TV lag makes me drop combos too. What you should know when comboing is what is optimal or best in a given situation. If you don't want to gadget Ragna (I fucking do it DP or not whatevers.) then just opt for 5B>4D. If you are a being a big boy with gadget then don't be too scared to take a risk, Ragna ID hit box and active frames are nerfed so Ragna has to think before doing it. I like to microstep forward and backdash a ID if I feel its coming, other wise I treat him like everyone else. Welcome to hindsight, I kill myself looking at my replays too, in fact I had ranbats yesterday and when I fought our Jin player (Best in our scene.) I dropped all my combos and got hella salty, when you guys look at that vid you are all gonna see why I was so salty. Do not fear Ragna's 2B, never fear it because you can always block it, when he does 6D he is expecting you to sit there and block it, you don't have to. Backdash it and punish accordingly. So lets talk about netplay Ragna shall we? They are bad, too wild, don't know how to approach and mash ID on wake up. The good ones know how to poke but are still very wild...these can be a troublesome bunch. They can be beaten too because they are also easy to IB 720...can't do it on that connection? stop playing him. You don't have to always feel threatened by DP's your job is to make people want to DP. It again took me forever to reach this conclusion but that's how I reach it. Then again I don't mind being lamed out because I have a Tager OS. When I get Skye's camera back I guess I'll netplay and post more vids.

Makoto, Bang, and Plat updated. I fixed that Valk link.