A.X.I.S.

Bsledge>4D works on everyone and if the hits are low you can even use Bsledge>5B>4D. The latter pushes people further away. 5A beats jump after gadget, people will have to block the 5A, your 5A beats everyone else's jab since gadget is +3. The 5A forces them to fall, you can actually do 5A>5C to catch jumpers. Bgadget is easy: Bsledge>gadget hold it for a split sec and release. You can RC MTW before the last hit connects making it look like you were gonna hit them with it. You do not need to RC 2D to 720, just mash it out. If you are gonna RC then use 6A to pull them back in or RC it in its later frames (After you connect and is point blank.) and continue pressure. 2A is a good AA and arguably our best AA, still situational though. Edit: IRL I am pretty loud but I am alright. The problem is I tell newbies way too much info and they can't absorb it. Then I get sad.

I don't treat people like newbies, I do yell and scream and ask sarcastic questions to even the best players. So let me tell you how I do things. (I'd like to say that my way may not be the right way to go. Gadget finger guesses are after are guesses, if you are afraid of any punishes for guessing wrong then use 5A, the only option to beat 5A is backdash. 2D is really good but you wanna use it to force corner, for me I tend to use Bsledge>4D after collider if I don't use midscreen gadget. I get the weaker mag than J.D/5D/gadget but I put them in a pretty good spot which is 5D range, an ideal spot to be in during neutral. Rapid canceling MTW for 360B is great, you can also vary the timing of the RC, as Mike Z said before you can RC before the last hit to make it feint. 2B is a great option as well after MTW if people read a grab they will try to jump, 2B stops this and gives you knock down. Personally if they are in the air I RC 2C which always hits everyone because they assume they would fall into a 360. 2A as a AA? Off CH use 5C/2C>collider stuff.

Updated first page. The threats are all tools to keep you out FYI.

Osuna gadget is great on Makoto. You do gadget and she does DP: You duck the DP or you use 2B whiff (I do weird stuff in general.) and they fly over your head and they are behind you, you 360B same boat as before. They 2A they get 360'd for it. The only smart thing is to use a movement option which is just as bad. Oh I forgot to mention you can backdash her DP. Have fun with that. I'll have some info for you guys after I play games with Omni some time so sit tight.

I am only mean to people outside of this forum. Moving on. I will be doing some match up write ups so you guys can have more info going into matches. @ Wolf: iObryan has already discovered that. Gadget actually pulls people who back or forward tech too. Oh another thing the gadget will whiff on some characters which means free hugs. (360s)

ANNON MATCH UP CHART IS A GO! https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?hl=en_US&key=tgJ927_S2Zv0MGOpcSP9x0w&hl=en_US#gid=0 I am enjoying this chart it is pretty lulz. Also take this with a grain of salt! In other words not serious.

They don't understand how you work, its ok I understand you. Its almost time for SBO so this chart might stick, we won't know until they actually completely agree on something.

I am excited because the worse the match up is the more I can think of ways to win by scrubbing someone else out. Except for Ragna who I can just random out easily despite INFERNO DIVIDER!

There I just changed the first list. Ara vs Tager is 6.5. Even the Ara players believe it.

Moonrune=JP keep up soldier. I didn't organize the chart because I am a no good lazy bastard that hates you all. (lie) All you need to know is this: We don't suck as bad as we did in the last game.

I am gonna drop this bomb here. |RA.||JI.||NO.||TG.||TA.||RA.||AR.||LI.||CA.||BA.||HK.||Λ.||TS.||HZ.||μ.||MK.||VA||PA.| |5.0||4.5||5.5||-.-||4.5||4.0||4.0| |5.0||4.5| |5.5||4.5||4.0||4.5||4.0||3.5||5.0||4.5||5.0| Yeah this seems a bit shady to me. I got this from the jbbs, I will search out for a another one. There is a explanation for them but I can't understand moonrune. Anyways have fun sorting this out. Apparently we are not that bad off! Heres the second list: \ | | Darkness. | | Ice. | | Gun. | | Magnet. | | Cat. | | Wind. | | Bugs. | | Bars. | | Sister. | | Shinobi. | | Side. | | Λ. | | Tsubaki. | | snake. | | μ. | | mouse. | | Wolf. | | magic. | | Magnetic | | 5.0 | | 4.0 | | 5.5 ||-.-|| 4.0 | | 3.5 | | 4.0 | | 4.0 | | 4.0 | | 4.5 | | 4.0 | | 4.0 | | 4.0 | | 3.5 | | 3.5 | | 4.5 | | 4.5 | | 4.0 | | I love you guys but I am not sorting this. I will say a few notes though. Rat/Mouse is Makoto. Magic is Plat. Wolf is Valk. I don't know what Side and Bars are. But I wouldn't be surprised if it was Haku and litchi.

If they are magnetized and you want something close to a mix up then you do collider late so they fall fast towards the ground and then J.B, if you do it right it will create a ambiguous cross up. Problem solved?

That is how you play Tager, I can't critique those match ups atm I will tomorrow when I am on.

After gadget I like to sometimes purple throw to catch mashing, this works a lot since I already put fear into people. 6A makes beating scrubs easier than previous BB's we don't have to struggle on scrubs we can just 6A them. I also use 6A in mirrors and on rare occasion I 6A the 6A.

I assure you mashing B+C is faster than spinning that stick and it is safer. If you are not confident in a 360 then I don't see a reason not to do a throw. But this not accounting for your opponents ability to break throws. I like Tager's new throws more now even though they aren't actually better.

Good stuff. You can poke dream sammy (bubble) and Mami circular will never punish backdash unless its yomi. Mami comes out too slow to consistently punish backdash. Her j.2C is annoying because it can be used as a instant overhead and it special cancels into swallowmoon. (float) meaning she doesn't have to commit to landing immediately. So how do you get around a lot of plat mix up mash A or backdash...sadly her goal in this match up is to make you respect it. Ah discussion, I love it. Keep up the good work Hain. Edit: Her J.C has a lot of start up so don't backdash too early or it will clip the backdash, also its easy to punish when you do backdash, her landing recovery is horrendous.

First post on DL and it was very detailed, I meant to do a write up but I am a little tired. So lets compare notes shall we. Plats j.2C has very little hitstun you got 3 routes. Block. (She can actually combo from j.2C but its very inconsistent.) 360. (If she makes a gap you'll beat her poke.) backdash. (her next poke will whiff and knowing her she will have a good deal of recovery.) She has 6 magical items so lets break this down. Frying pan-Not a threat when she isn't close but when she is...it can be used as an instant overhead that can lead to 4k+ midscreen to corner, In the corner however it goes up to 5k+. Magical kitty-10F fast can be a instant overhead the thread level isn't so huge since she can't follow up, still block it however you can and advance in. Magical bat-1 button DP, you can invul through it but its hella hard, bait it...bait it a lot, safe-ish on block. Magical bombs-If she has this then expect your sledge to be baited this projectile also eats spark so don't use it. Magical Hammer-Breaks 2 primers and safe on block and she can do serious damage with it from the hammer loop. Magical cat missle-Eats spark and you WILL block it if you know what's good for you, make her waste it, its the only way around it. Expect a combonation of both Hain and my posts tomorrow or whenever I post them.

I am pretty mad and tired I'll edit the 360 combos later. I'd also like to note that the resets would probably be set in a different part of the thread seeing how they aren't the complete combo. Also most the people I play rarely get hit by my gimmicks.

Updated...and no Sherv lol.

updated first post.

This match up isn't that bad for us. Nothing we haven't dealt with. So lets go over the situation shall we: You are in the corner and Ragna does a dead spike trying to work your primers. You have 10 primers and you have a move that beats dead spike: Sledge He got you in the corner and he is trying to mix you up? Then now would be a great time to learn Ragna's simple mix up so lets break down what Ragna's like to do: 5A/2A>6B 2A>5A whiff 2C 2B>6B 2C>6B J.C>6B J.B>2B Empty jump>2B Empty jump 6B Once you learn to react to these consistently as in 80-90% of the time you force Ragna to think outside the box. 5C>2C whiff? IB the 5C and now he is at the disadvantage! I hope you are holding spark. Your main pokes to use here (I made a prototype write up why didn't I finish it and post it I don't know.) is gonna be 5A/5B/5C/5D. 5A punishes sloppy approaches. 5B Punishes sloppy approaches as well. 5C is good to let him know you have it and stuff jumps that start out a little too close. 5D is different now but you can use the reduced pull to your advantage, real him in and make him think he has the advantage when he dashes in too close for 5B to be safe...Tager him. So lets talk more about Ragna because I love how dumb this match up is when you can't block. Ragna's 5A whiff on us while crouching. GH Combos without CH only leads to 2kish or so. ID has less active frames so you can late backdash it easier. 6B is gonna blow you up at first but keep practicing blocking it because once you block it you automatically become that Ragna player's worst nightmare. I'll have the info posted later...did I miss something!? @ Tong: Having a character specific combo doesn't make the match up worse.

I had a guy lag switch my guard break 720.

A good match up is when the other player doesn't know how to fight Tager.

I think your list is more accurate then mine.

Hmm depends on what you're going for. I say a good Tager player is someone who can make the right reads, know how to swing momentum in their favor, and can block overheads and tech grabs on reaction. This is pretty much all you need to know with Tager.