TheRealBobMan

Hey guys, I made a post in the general forum about this, but training mode seems to display frame count when using the record and playback functions, so it should be really simple to get the rest of the frame data, since we can pause/unpause at 1-frame intervals with the game counting for us. No need for recording equipment and editing software to get frame data. Adelheid, do you remember how much hit-pause there was? Did it vary between moves? It shouldn't be a problem to figure that out, but it'd save time if you could give us some input. : ) Using this method, I'm getting the same number of startup frames for 5A that you posted, and the given data on AoAs lines up too. I'm pretty sure we can use this method for accurate results.

I've noticed that when using the Recording function, the game displays the frames as you're recording as well as playing back what you've recorded. Also, the game seems to advance slowly when pausing and unpausing. To the point where accurate timing your start button presses can make the game not advance at all or advance 1 frame. Couldn't we use this to gather most frame data with relative ease instead of waiting or using recording devices and editing software? Just use the record function to make sure you're accurate about pressing the start button. Start the move several frames after you start recording, and just adjust your numbers off of when it started. Should be able to see how long a move takes to go active, how much stun, etc. Right? Unless I'm missing something. Delete the thread if I'm wrong.

Yesterday when I was messing around, I managed to get a comp set to crouch block to block deep jump-in j.B > dj.A, both standing. It's really hard and they tend to go back to crouching, but I was able to get it to happen more than once. Is this an accurate test for fuzzy guard? If the timing wasn't perfect, they'd go back to crouching and the dj.A would whiff. Doesn't seem to work on Teddie - the bugger seems too short. I had it work on Mitsuru and I think Naoto though. It also works (possibly better!) if you do a jump turn and hit with the back part of the j.B. Maybe this could be used in crossup unblockables to make them harder to reversal super? They can always just Furious Action since it's 2 buttons and no directional input to mess up, but if it aims the wrong way, we'd still get to punish. Would make an in-your-face oki a little safer I think. I mean, if you could time Buffalo Hammer in between the j.B and dj.A, you'd have a really scary mixup, even though on it's own, j.b > dj.A is a strong one since it's a 50/50 between that and j.B > 2A on landing. It's just that if you can cross them up while doing an unblockable with Buffalo and jump-in, it should be safer for us because now it's a 50/50 that they do their reversal input facing the right way, assuming most FAs whiff. It should also be a bit safer than Guillotine if they do the AB dash to escape. That command dash is completely invincible except for throws right?

Can you try to catch them with a second 2B before the 2C hits instead of using 5AA? Or... you can use Titanomachia in the air right? What if you do CH 2B > j.BB > Titan > airdash > follow up, as the starter? Might not work unless you're near the corner, but you might be able to catch the wallbounce off of j.BB if you cancel into super into airdash.

You can bait the burst right? Since the burst doesn't do damage, it wont break Asterius unless it hits you, so you can predict it and punish. I'd like some frame data on bursts to see if there's a trick like watching the Burst meter in GG, since GG bursts have their active hitbox on 18 or so, and the meter empties on frame 1. You could One Moar Cancel whatever you're doing into block > punish.

Oh really? I didn't realize that. That's really good to know, especially since EX Buffalo Hammah launches if the fists connect. If you're willing to spend 50%, you can do 214 ABCD for EX Buffalo + EX Guillotine, and then cancel the EX Guillotine into Guillotine(B) for the unblockable. I figure that since Guillotine hits at 1/2 screen anyway, if you do this from somewhat far away, it should be safe, and either way do quite a bit of damage (either about 2K from Guillotine hitting, or 2K+ from Buffalo + combo). If they do some superarmor move, you should be able to cancel the EX Guillotine into your own FA and beat it right? Would make for a great oki setup in the corner, considering it would be safe, but unblockable. Good luck backdashing out of that pressure too. : P Also, I can confirm that the CH FA > Titan [8C] > 5AA > 8C hits > sj.B > Flame > IK setup works on: Labrys, Akihiko, Teddie, Kanji, Chie, and Yosuke. I'll test the rest tomorrow. I can't decide who's more satisfying to do this to at the moment. Yosuke has the best animation while Slab is holding him before sending him to hell, but Teddie looks hilarious when Asterius is about to finish him.

I just spent like 4 hours practicing it, and I finally got the 1st IK setup from that video to work. Considering that I haven't really had time to play any game like this for so long in a really REALLY long time, it feels good to put some effort into something and see results. I figure I'll dedicate whatever time I can manage to get these consistent as it's good basic practice for me using stick anyway. I started about a year ago when I picked up I-No, but an hour of play time every 2 weeks isn't really enough to learn to play on one of these things. When I feel confident, I'll post some detailed suggestions to help people get the timing down. I should get all of these consistent, and then see if they work on all characters. For now, if people want to practice those, I guess it's worth mentioning that for the one I practiced, you have plenty of time for each set-up before the big fire hit of Titanomachia, so don't feel rushed. For the most part, it feels like getting things in slightly earlier or trying to get Labrys higher in the air before the flames come out wont make a difference. If you have trouble linking the uppercut to j.B to the flames, do sj.B late, like when Labrys hits the peak of being launched. It also feels like you have tons of time to hit-confirm the super off of the wallbounce, so you wouldn't waste the meter on a non CH FA. Also, if you happen to do it too late (feels like you might not be in range if she's already bouncing off of the wall), you can easily confirm that and do a completely different set-up with the super. The hard part is actually knowing when to go into IK mode following the flames, and learning the timing for the actual throw out of the stance change, because you're off-screen and your only visual cues are the lights. What helped me most was just doing her IK on a standing opponent and pausing repeatedly, watching the game advance only a few frames at a time, so I could see exactly when it goes active. Then I was able to adjust my combo timing as Labrys was falling into my failed grab attempts, since I could repeat that and see if I was too late or too early. It honestly felt like I was too early at times, but doing this revealed that even when I was trying to start the IK stance earlier and earlier, I was late, and Labrys had time to tech. I started doing my inputs faster to shave off a few frames rather than risk an accidental AoA or sweep. Whether or not you believe it, this method was really useful for me since you can't really see Labrys falling into the throw attempt because the screen doesn't move fast enough, but if you try to move just a few frames at a time with pausing, you can see if she techs before or after your throw should have gone active, once they come into view.

Bleh, I read the CH and it didn't register for some reason. Ok, no worries. Edit: Ok, so why is it that I only see where I can edit damage? What if I want to include Guard and SP values? Never mind, played with it and figured it out. I'll add these in really quick. Or maybe just the guard values... SP seems to have decimal values, so sometimes a move is worth 5 and other times 6. I don't want to think that much.

Hey, I'm noticing that gatlings from the other thread like "CH 5A > 5B > 2A+B (870 DMG/10 SP Gained)" and "CH 5A > 2B > j.B > dj.B > j.214B (1274 DMG/15 SP Gained)" don't work. 5A doesn't lead into 5B/2B. Can someone explain what's up? Are you testing these off of counter-hits or something? Also, because the wiki is so incomplete, I'm going to make some edits right now. You guys can double check my accuracy later I guess, but I tend to be pretty thorough about what I do.

What works out of the gate? Seems like everything loses to keygrab except jump > dive, which seems to give her enough time to bloodpack. I slashback a lot and get hits > combos that way, but I always lose when it comes to zoning and poking and wind up screwed. What can I do other than blocking until ABA messes up or I slashback something easy to react to (like the low follow up in her rekka chain)? I try to push her out with FD but I don't know what gives me guaranteed punishes. Nothing seems to really work. 6P seems to work on the ground at max range, but it loses to her jump-ins all the time, so I'd rather just block and occasionally go for a slashback. On the plus side, my friend tested IKing ABA out of Moroha recovery using I-No's throw and he said it's guaranteed. Throw FRC > IK on wakeup. Should be unburstable OTG because of the throw, assuming he didn't overlook something.

Hey guys, I should have posted this a long time ago to give you some notice, but I just got busy and forgot. Video Games Live still has tickets for their LA show on Wednesday June 6th at 8:00PM. They've announced Earthworm Jim, Journey, Pokemon, StarFox, Aerith's theme, and Street Fighter, among other things (as far as I know, that's all new for LA, except for Street Fighter which they premiered last year). Tickets are as cheap as around $30 with fees. I already got a VIP pass because they have a pre-show party with a bunch of guests that I wanted to try to talk to about game design (like Tim Schafer), but I think those are sold out at this point. If you're going to E3 you might want to pick up tickets since you're going to be there anyway (concert is right across the street), and if you got screwed over by their customer service like I did and aren't getting a pass, this concert is good enough to make up for it. I've been like 5 times already. I'd offer to buy people tickets just so I wouldn't be there alone, but I can't afford it right now due to budget issues that have come up. http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/2C004867DA6F51E9?brand=aeglive So.... Guilty Gear Accent Core: REVENGENCE Who's excited for the changes? Raoh gets aerial Last Edguy.

Hm... step back and analyze your play to see if you just jump too much, or jump stupidly. He's probably expecting you to jump to escape pressure, or go air to ground all the time on offense, which is how he air throws you so much. If you need to get out of pressure, instant block and backdash, or FD to push him out. If he whiffs an airthrow attempt like that because you stayed on the ground, he's flying across the screen doing a j.H, and you can punish that. If he does it on reaction, don't do whatever it is you're doing that's so easy to react to.

I have been on the other end of I-No rushdown and I'm more frustrated with not being able to block because I switched to stick and the engage distance is irritating compared to knowing for sure that I'm blocking high when I want or low when I want on pad. I don't really worry about being able to react properly to mixups though... I'm actually working on slashbacking since there's no excuse not to slashback slow or multi-hit moves that can't be canceled without meter, and I have experience with powershielding in Melee, which has the same 2 frame window. The timing isn't a problem, and reacting to rushdown isn't scary for me at all. I still have a problem with instinctively thinking a lot of Dusts are lows because they look like they hit low, even though they're all overheads (**** you Testament), but I'm working on it. I guess her gatlings are the same then, but switching to #R is like picking up I-No fresh again considering the properties of her moves are different. I can't get dives to work in combos, and Sol drops out of the majority of things I go for. I'm in this weird phase playing AC where I can AD out of HCL more consistently than I can make HCL or Longing Desperation come out, and I drop basic gatlings at times which makes no sense, but I can still occasionally get a full relaunch combo with VCL fastfalls to work during a match. I guess I was attributing my problems to the wrong things since I barely played #R?

Was it Fortissimo? I might be confused or be thinking of another one, but I've seen one where a character bursts, I-No IAD's away, then FB cancels into AD forward, slashback cancels the dash, and airthrows the whiffed burst. And yeah, a more skilled player wouldn't let you do something that stupid unless you scared him/her out of his/her mind with rushdown, and I-No doesn't really do that all that well. It's fun to attempt against lesser skilled players that don't know her gaps though. I should learn this since I've got some friends to troll... I tried playing #R with a friend about a week ago and it feels so different. I can't get her HCL to FRC right, and her gatlings aren't the same so I drop everything, but her damage feels better anyway and her pokes don't seem to completely suck. I can't believe j.K will clash a VV in #R. I know it can clash Storm Viper in AC, but clashing VV? Holy crap.

So... I'm thinking... HD j.S > j.D FDC > j.S > double jump over them + SB cancel to turn around > j.S > 236D > cancel > airdash crossup > Fortissimo Great way to blow 75% on some retarded mixup. Overhead > mixup overhead > crossup overhead > crossup random super. Eh... assuming it works. I can't do I-No's j.D FDC. I've played around a little with FBdive cancels to jump/airdash though. Has anyone ever beaten a burst attempt using it, in a context like long range poke > HCL FRC AD > *opponent bursts here as you move in* 236D > cancel > jump > airthrow? Is it viable to try something like this if you see the burst start up late?

Wow, that's good to know. Thanks for posting that. : ) Like one of the comments in that thread suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if a bunch of players already knew this, but for someone new to the game (and we'll have an influx of new players soon), or someone that doesn't practice all the time, this is going to be news.

Don't be predictable. Usually, ending a block-string with GunFlame non-FRC lets your opponent escape or gets you counter-hit. I-No can jump > Sdive you, Chipp can teleport out, etc. Gunflame FRC is fine though since you can keep pressure going. As I-No I can jump out, but I won't get a free hit. Bandit Revolver is -4 on block, so unless it's spaced properly, you're pretty much giving them a free grab. Like anything, there are cases where it's useable in a block-string, but it's usually a dumb move to end a block-string with it. Actually, if you spam this move to the point where your opponent instant blocks the 1st hit, you can be 6P'd through the middle and eat it pretty bad. May sounds the scariest for this because her 6P is bonkers, but I don't know if it's fast enough. I used to do this with Chipp though. Mix it up when you block string from the air. If you j.H too high, one can block the first hit, then instant block the 2nd hit on reaction pretty easy into a throw (or learn to SB it > some crazy punish). If you always just jump in with j.H, it gets easier to instant block the 2nd hit on reaction. Sometimes you'll want to j.S > j.D > maybe sidewinder > landing, instead of just j.S > j.H > landing > whatever. Usually though, landing j.H > 5K is pretty safe since 5K is so fast to start. Try not to use Grand Viper unless you have 50% to RC it on block, or at least a Burst in case they react well and can go for a high-damage punish. If they do block it, there are pretty much 3 points you can RC. Early on (like hits 2-3), a little later (5-6), and on the last hit. When you RC, your options are dash in > Wild Throw, another GV (DERP), pressure string (This is used when your opponent expects Wild Throw and pokes to beat it. You beat their poke with yours because of frame advantage, and if they blocked, you just pressure like normal), VV (HUR DUR), Gold Burst (BA-HURDADUR), and Burst Throw (if you expect them to Burst out of your GV, you'll probably RC it early since they'll probably Burst early, and then you go for the airthrow).

"Also about TK H-DIVE: It's highly punishable, there is only a few reason I could recomend doing it outside of a combo. Potemkin IK setup ABA (FRC into Airthrow > Knockdown)" What is this Potemkin IK setup? : )

Are there other situations with guaranteed IB > punish setups?

I hate to double post, but I have an input question. I can't consistently super jump out of c.S and have it red beat. I either get the super jump and they tech out or it's black beat, or I don't super jump. What do you think I'm doing wrong? I really want to be able to do c.s > sj.S > j.H > Pdive > 66 > j.S > VCL FF > c.S > sj.S > sj.H > Pdive > 66 > j.S > Pdive > Sdive or any variants of that where applicable. I ask my friends and they have no problems doing that with characters like OS, so they don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I've been getting some practice with this matchup lately against a guy who plays a bunch of characters very solid, but doesn't have much creativity. This matchup with him is the worst since my Axl experience isn't so hot. I've basically played against him and another Axl that doesn't play as much as I do. If that one zones me, I'll lose, but if I play ballsy and just walk all over him, I don't have any issues since he can't reliably bomber loop. Unfortunately, the new guy I practice with can Bomber Loop, so I'm getting combo'd for 80% out of the slightest **** up, and I **** up constantly since I don't have the tech skill for most BnBs. I might win 1 round out of 30 with his Axl. All I've really learned is: I can't deal with Rashou sen. I can react to its startup, so I could jump out every time, but I'll get AA'd by his cancel on reaction to my jump. If I delay it long enough to see it start, even if I see the green from my 1-frame jump, I get hit by it. I can't dash over it or get anything to work here. Slashback 6H on reaction. I started to IB it on reaction and I'll punish any attempt at continuing pressure, but that's just not enough since I can't get combos out of 2K/5K (especially since he could bait the punish and punish that if he was paying more attention), so I decided to put a little practice into SBing it. I could powershield Falco's laser consistently in Melee to reflect it and the window is 2 frames like SB, so it took almost no effort since Axl's 6H is super telegraphed. There's really no excuse to not learn how to SB this move. I need to learn to SB 2H next (the 2nd hit on reaction should also be mandatory. Actually, I think most 2nd hits of Axls moves should be relatively easy to practice since I have experience with this sort of timing). I seem to lose every poke, get CH'd > bomber loop. If I just let him come to me and pressure, I can usually IB > something unless I get a backdash, in which case I get boned on reaction. That's about all I got from this matchup with all of this practice (probably at least 50 losses vs him under my belt, vs 2 wins). Nothing works for me. I get out-zoned all game, and when I get in I drop my combos or pressure and get reversal thrown or AA'd into an 80% combo. I generally know what he wants to do... pretty much all the time. I just can't beat it. Anyone know what pokes beat what, besides what's mentioned already? That'd save me a lot of experimenting, and I'll just have to work on not dropping combos into his bomber loop, or throw resets vs his I-No. His Zappa and Baiken and generally any of the other characters he plays don't bother me. It's the Axl matchup that I can't win period. At least I know what I need to be doing vs his I-No.

Are you going to post here when you stream again? I'd like to watch!

I need some people experienced with the matchup to help me out here. I played against a Chipp for the first time as I-No the other day and got destroyed. What's really annoying is that: 1. Before I-No, I played Chipp, so I know where all of his gaps are and I know what he wants to do. 2. This Chipp doesn't make execution mistakes but he's extremely 1-dimensional and I know what he's going to do 80% of the time. 3. He doesn't know how to do damage. He'll spend 50% to do a 20% damage combo. And yet I couldn't do anything. My pokes were always beat by his, even in situations where I should have been ok to poke, and almost all of my air-throw attempts didn't work. "Oh, he's going to D teleport at the start of the round because that's how he opens 75% of the time. I'm going to airthrow". *Jump back at start, he does D teleport, throw whiffs, get punished* Things I know you can do: 1. If he does the command throw, 5P it > combo (if there's time - 5p is frame 4, so it should work almost always), or jump and air throw it. One of the only air-throws I managed to land this match was against this move. I would think that CH HCL/VCL would work great here since I think I-No leaves the ground frame 1? Someone correct me here, but HCL FRC VCL > combo will do like 50% if this setup works, so it's probably the best punish. You might not even have to spend meter since he's floaty (I'm still working on combos so I don't really know enough). 2. Like with Sol, if he jumps in or H/D teleports in with j.H, instant block > throw. Just be careful of j.H > fast shuriken or Alpha FRC, which will be used to try and stuff this sort of throw or keep pressure on. FRC Alpha will put him behind you, or if he does it low enough, in front. If he's really high when he goes for Alpha FRC out of j.H, you can probably throw him when he hits the ground. 3. Same thing with his j.2K. His j.2K is like lvl 2 or 3, so there's way less block-stun than his j.H. Expect him to 2K or tick-throw with it, though a lot of Chipps would rather FDC > j.H. When I played Chipp, I was air-thrown out of j.H a lot by my friend's Sol. I-No should have no problem doing the same thing on reaction since her range is better, but I lack the execution right now to do it. I had issues with I-No's reversal safe oki on Chipp for some reason. I'm fine vs Sol, but Chipp managed to clip me with Beta Blade every ****ing time, and that was frustrating since he ALWAYS did Beta Blade on wakeup. "I'll just time a meaty j.S to land before he gets up" *Gets hit*. Things to remember: 1. His 2D is foot invincible and will beat a ton of pokes out of the gate. 2. If he lands a CH 6P, he can 6H and it'll be red beat (only on CH), which leads to some of his higher damage combos. Be really careful going Air to Ground here. If he has meter he can 6P > 6H > j.P > j.D > Alpha > FRC > loop for maybe 50% on I-No? 3. His 2S has a nice hitbox (happens to stuff a ton of Sol's moves), and it'll stuff STBT no problem. 4. His c.S is frame 4 and +2 on block. 5. First hit of his Rekkas is -1, 2nd hit is either the fast low (even more advantage us, but I forget how much) or the slow overhead (I think plenty of advantage for us, enough for free punish). If he does the slow overhead, you can 6P on reaction for big damage it or maybe airthrow it if you want to be a jerk. Should probably just block low out of the first one to be safe and reactive punish the overhead if you see it start. If he hits with the low, he can RC > dash in > combo. Just be careful since he can FRC the overhead. 6. Never forget that Gamma Blade is +5. It goes through most projectiles, so it probably eats the note instead of triggering it like a lot of other moves do (meaning that some moves will hit the note and activate the extra hits wherever they clashed, but I think your note will just disappear here) 7. His S teleport is the one where he goes backwards a little bit. It's sort of slow, but it makes him count as airborne. Probably wont come up at all, but if you dash in and he stupidly does that, don't try to ground throw it. 8. His 6K sucks balls, but he's airborne. Air-throw it on reaction. : ) Seriously though, 6P > combo or something. His 6K only combos if he RCs or on Counterhit (causes floorslide), and it prorates 70%. It'll CH you if you try to sweep or throw, but just about anything else will hit him since it's ultra laggy. 9. I succeeded with several random UF pokes. Don't forget that it screen freezes and try to punish stupid dash ins or teleports that aren't baits (a good Chipp should bait really well though). 10. His Dust has giant range and is +1 on block. He can still do a nice ID combo at max range (IAD j.K > follow up), so learn to deal with it. 11. His j.D has a great hitbox, knocks down on regular hit, and floorslides on CH for a combo. I would think I-No is better air to air, but he has stuff do deal with you air to ground or ground to air. 12. It probably wont come up since you can dive him if he whiffs, but don't get hit by a CH 6H. He'll get another 6H in, and then combo. If he has meter he could CH 6H > 6H > RC > dash in 6H > combo and do like 60%, while maybe stunning you. That'll REALLY SUCK. 13. If he ever uses Bankai Messai, FD to push him back or get out of the way and punish the **** out of it. This Overdrive totally sucks unless he uses it as a reversal or hit confirms into it when your Guard Bar is maxed, and even then, it still sucks. As Chipp, I've been thrown out of it. I think there's enough time to FD him out of range and go for the IK when he lands out of the uppercuts at the end. Free wins vs anyone stupid enough to do this. If there's not enough time for an IK, use that UF > UF > combo from earlier and do 75%, or a regular combo for 50%. *Edit 4/20/12* If he uses this, FD, backdash out once he's at full blockpush range, go for IK. Everyone can do this except for Chipp himself and Dizzy because of the hitboxes and setup, and Order Sol because he doesn't have one. I messed around a bit and found that if you get the tech-trap in the corner or any corner airthrow setup, you can 5H out of the air throw > j.H > Pdive > 66 j.S > FFVCL > whatever. You'll probably get 180+ damage for free. Or fall back on 5H > j.H > Sdive > regular follow up. I guess the strategy is lock him down first, or get knockdown and don't give him a 2nd chance. If you're locked down, it just takes 1 poke to get the advantage, and he's dead in 2 combos, even if they're both prorated out the ass because they're throw combos. Air throw his bursts! AIR THROW EVERYTHING! : P I really need to learn the 5K > HCL 6FRC6 setup. It'll help my game so much right now...

Uh.... how do I use this website so I can watch this? Also, I managed to get that combo you mentioned to work maybe 1 time so far (I barely get to practice right now). Awesome! My biggest problem is getting a super jump to come out of the c.S during the relaunch (so the Pdive wont whiff). I really need to get my combos down. I'm horribly inconsistent since I'm doing like 15% > knockdown > oki repeatedly, except for a few corner combos. Maybe I should learn stick with another character and then learn I-No instead of trying to do both at the same time?

Thanks. I tried that last night and I got the 2K > c.S to work almost every time. : ) What's a good combo out of that? I think I was trying stuff like c.S > j.S > dj > j.S > j.H > Sdive > c.S > j.S > Kdive for around 100. I also tried 2K > c.S > j.S > j.H > HCL > 6FRC6 > j.S > FFVCL > c.S, and then it drops every time I try to continue from here, but I'm at about 125 by this point.