Supa

I won't understand that you've got something seriously wrong with your buttons when blowing on them sets them off? No, I won't understand that exaggeration-stated-as-a-fact at all. :\ You did bring up another possible advantage of pads, though - because of the additional force required to activate them, it can make them more accurate. Also - scroll up. qwerty quotes me saying, "You're saying a PS3 pad throw is the same as a Sanwa button?" and his reply is "Yes, drop it on your lap." So ya, I was assuming he was speaking non-gibberish and meant what he was saying. My bad. :\ It's still awfully funny - emphasis on the awful. So now there's a few advantages to a pad - force to activate the buttons makes them less prone to error, coordinating a single digit to activate them can make them more accurate, travel distance makes it possibly faster to input them when tapping (as opposed to rolling, etc, where a joystick is much better).

Ya, it also happens "randomly" on the arcade versions where a CPU player does the same thing you're describing. Kinda fun, but kinda annoying when the matches aren't counting toward you getting closer to the boss. :\

You've got this quite backwards. I tried to objectively present an opinion of how a controller may have an advantage - at which point that opinion was met with nothing but demands, condescending rants and insults about how I'm some newbie pad user when the reality of the situation is that I have stated I use joysticks and only joysticks and a wide variety of joysticks. In opposition, I'm getting faced down by some weaboo ridiculousness militia that only believe Japanese arcade parts have ever been in existence and are more accurate "because moar when I drop them in my lap." The evidence for the argument is there. It's quite obvious - seriously, go measure it. Or... how about you just objectively disagree with the fact that it is a pad advantage? I believe it definitely could be an advantage - I've never said you have to agree with me. You only need to consider the reality of the situation and not keep posting random nonsense about laptesting joysticks. Clearly, you two are rabid joystick users - that's fine, I am, too, but for the sake of the topic of the thread... you could attempt to honestly and objectively consider the alternative. See how that works? An objective opinion is presented, it was backed up by facts you choose to ignore. You choose to ignore them in order to win an argument that doesn't really exist. The proper thing to do would be to just disagree with it rather than attempt to "win" an opinion. A reasonable person would understand you can't "win" an opinion, especially by dropping it in your lap. Edit and PS: No, I'm not going to let go of the lap test thing. That is seriously the funniest thing I've ever heard. "Joysticks have less travel because they fire when I hump them! Pads lose because I can't set off the buttons with my crotch!" is absolutely classic.

I think all of the arcade Guilty Gears have "Here comes Daredevil!" GGX, 1.5, Slash, XX#R would do that and give you some random character that often had a buff (faster, 100% tension, etc). The faster you KO the opponent, the less chance you have of getting the event, I think. I don't remember if ^C does - I'll find out in a few weeks. A.B.A. is in the PS2 Isuka, ya? You can do some fun stuff with her in that version. I think I'm at the point now where I can at least get turned in the right direction reliably and have stopped trying to Dust with Turn Still have yet to make it to Leopoldan or whateverhisnameis. Isuka seems solid to me. I'm actually a bit confused about why it was so unpopular. The turn thing is a bit annoying, but you can get used to it. It's not utter trash that people make it out to be and it's #R rules. I'd much prefer to play ^C, #R or Slash, but Isuka isn't terribly bad and it seems like it could be fun with two to four players.

What do you want me to do to prove this to you? Do you want me to take pictures of the buttons with a caliper on them? You'll only argue with me that I've depressed the button past the engage point to doctor the results. So, yes, do the test yourgoddamnself because you simply have decided to put on the Brick-Wall-Of-Oblivious Helmet +1 with anything I say or do. My objective opinion is that pads have an advantage with tapping inputs. The justification for that opinion is based on the travel distance for the buttons. An objective intelligent person would argue the validation for the opinion rather than try to invent stupid scenarios that invalidate the other persons ability, intent or intelligence. And I think I just realized the correlation for qwerty's laptest - he's confusing sensitivity with activation travel. That's comparing force to a measurement of length - which is completely invalid. Your thumb and pinky are supposed to be your strongest gripping digits. The strength of your thumb should overcompensate for the force required to activate the button (again, don't confuse that with the actual distance travelled).

Priceless. Absolutely priceless. Now you want to measure from the center of buttons even though they can be activated by any edge? Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? If I hit the edge on accident or I hit the center on accident.... you still get the same result. Fact: Sanwa engage point is further than a PS3 pad. Measure it with more than your lap. OBSF-30s are nearly the same, but mine actually engage past the point of the PS3 pad. Try measuring with something more than your lap and this is indeed a provable fact. It's really really really easy to verify this with a caliper. Give it a shot. JLF microswitch engage is indeed larger than the engage point of a PS3 dpad. Once again, try measuring with something more than your lap. Doubt me? Test it yourself. Want to still argue? You're clearly not interested in facts. I'd like to point out this whole thing started out as an opinion that pads have less travel and as such should be more responsive when it came to tapping directions. Rather than proving any insight, it's just become an insult slinging contest with one side having actual facts (hi, caliper!) and the other side making wild speculations and stupid comparisons (drop stuff in your lap for facts ftw!). Good job, fellows. Good job. In other news, I prefer square gates. If you're a first-time joystick user, you might want to check out an octagon until you get more confident with your inputs. When you find yourself at the point where you aren't riding the octo-gate, switch to square. For games like Guilty Gear, KoF, SF, etc, anyway.

Ok, qwerty. You're absolutely right. The "drop junk in my lap test" is scientific and effective in measuring button travel length.... and/or the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Ever. Have you ever opened up a calculator? PS3 pad? 360 pad? Nintendo pad? There's a thin rubber membrane. Have you ever seen a microswitch from a joystick? The mechanical actuator is huge in comparison to this rubberymembraney thing. You don't even need to measure this - it's painfully obvious. You can try dropping it in your lap, but I dunno if you have a lap that has a built in digital caliper or how that would be effective at all. I would suggest just looking at it. The proof is there - it's just clear some people are bad at measuring things and judging the size of things visually. It seems some people judge an appropriate measurement in how many switches activate when you drop things on your lap. "Joysticks are better cos the buttons are further apart" is the second dumbest thing I've ever heard. Ever. Have you seen a viewlix? Just look at one. I'd be willing to bet the distance between button edges is the same if not less than a PS3 pad. Your argument is that buttons being further apart is efficient and somehow amazingly accurate - therefore, using your argument style along with whatever that other clutzes name was.... we should all play on a DDR pad. Got it. I hope you don't want me to drop that in my lap.... How do you shop for shoes? They have a length measurement required in the form of a standard size. Do you just have someone kick you in the crotch until it feels snug? Anyway, this is clearly pointless. When ridiculously obvious facts are downplayed by someone trying to provide proof they're a better debater (and as such, not right, just better at debate) - it's quite clear we are having trouble distinguishing "a forest from the trees" scenario. Qwerty and that other fellow can have fun with all that drop-stuff-on-my-balls-for-science and such.

You. are. interpreting. a. non-existent. straw. man. and. building. your. own. I'm not sure how all the dots makes it clearer, but you are indeed inferring ridiculous arguments into my argument. I started my whole rant by saying I was a joystick user and hated using pads. I also specifically mentioned that the argument around a PS3 Pad's travel to actuation being more than a Sanwa (did you read that? Sanwa... Do you see it?) is insane. I have Sanwa buttons. I have a whole drawer full of them. I have a whole drawer of Happs, too. Go find that caliper I mentioned and measure the microswitch actuation length inside and outside of the button. Then go measure the stupid rubbery-membraney-thingie-travel for a PS3 pad. Get a spectrum micrometer if you like. The PS3 pad wins in having the shortest travel to close the switch for both the d-pad and buttons. My Happs? Probably 1/16th inch or something ridiculous. My Sanwa joystick activation? Probably about the same. There is no argument here. Pad button travel is shorter than any arcade button or joystick travel. End of discussion. Anti-climactic because... it's painfully obvous. So nowhere there did I say wooden cabinets were better. That was never an argument. I stated I use many joysticks with many different gates and you have somehow inferred that I'm saying pads are better and that I use a pad. To break it down - Reason that your argument is irrelevant: You didn't comprehend the words you were reading, you only picked out ones you thought were suitable for you to counter argue. Your counterpoint: epeen lulz! Translation: You are only here to argue about something you didn't bother to read. If you don't agree that pads have the advantage I stated, then just don't agree. You don't have to overanalyze partial sentences to develop some pseudo-self-righteous argument around. You can just say you don't agree. I'll still like you. Edit: Crossell wins. Fatality. Although it's not impossible to do, it's impossible to realistically do well.... Instants with cross buttons like in SC3/SC4 (you have to hit X+B, Y+A) is annoyingly dumb to try to do on a pad well, unless you do the play-claw thing and pretend the right side of the pad is a joystick with tiny, tiny buttons.

Nostalgia glasses? Mine are clear - I have two Atomiswave control panels in my living room. While a New Net City or a Noir would be nice, that Atomsiwave woody is a blast. I use my thumb for more than it happens to hover over. There are 4 buttons I can hit with my thumb - I always hit them in combinations. It's pretty easy to hit 2 to 4 buttons with your thumb and do negative edge. Yoshimitsu and Xianghua from SCIV is easy peasey on a pad and remaps make them even easier. And then there was that whole shenanigan with Hilde..... where users remapped buttons to charge her moves with a trigger finger while still having access to all 4 buttons with their thumb and any additional buttons on triggers and bumpers. You're now using 3 digits with less travel on 8 buttons - I can't do that on a joystick, but we're not going for sane. So you want to argue Sanwa buttons have the same activation throw as a PS3 pad? That's fine, we can go with that. It's insane, but that's fine. We're not going for sane here. You want to argue semantics and say no one uses their arm - clearly you don't play at arcades and watch other users. Ever watch a Daigo match? Watch his hand and arm - it indeed moves, not constantly, but it does indeed move. So you're telling me Daigo plays Street Fighter and Guilty Gear like a one-armed vietnam vet... once again, we're not going for sane.... Never said Noel's combo was uber difficult - said it was idiot proof on a pad. Not so much on a stick where your hands are moving significantly further distances between hitting 6 and using 2 fingers to alternate between C and B+C. As opposed to a pad where you are barely moving your thumbs to accomplish the same thing... And I do use my whole arm with a pad - you don't? It's not stupid at all - it's effective. Wiggle out of Jin's Ice from BBCT using only your thumb and not moving your arms at all with a pad.... that's stupid. You can easily shift the pad with your offhand while you mash with the other to achieve an effectively faster tapping rate. It's completely brain-dead not to. You must play with a pad like you were handcuffed to a desk... Ok, guys, so you disagree this is an advantage. We can vote it off the island if you want. I've said my piece and you're on a mission to burn it. Consider it burned out.

Holy crap. You just wrote the equivalent of "I'm 12 and what is Happ?" American Atomiswave's are wooden. Most NAOMI cabinets in the day were... wooden. Street Fighter? Wooden. Neo Geo? Wooden. Soul Calibur? Wooden. Tekken? Wooden. Wooden cabinets generally can't be used with newer sticks without a whole lot of modification. So ya, kid, I still use Happs on my arcade machines. 1) Go youtube for "how to use a stick" or something. The SSFIV weaboo craze lit that crap on fire. There's at least 3 videos with someone using their whole arm rather than just their hand/wrist/forearm in wineglass grip. Srs bsns, check it out. Didn't say it was correct or sane - I said it happened. 2) I might be willing to accept the "arm reaction speed" vs "thumb reaction speed" but I'm not going to wholly agree with it. If you grab an "average" person and ask them to play Boom Boom Rocket with a stick.... what do you think the outcome will be? I'm still going to say that pad is more accurate and faster with taps than a stick and newbs don't have to worry about hitting neutral. Plus my argument applied to buttons as well - so you're saying my thumb on a pad is going to have a slower reaction time than my thumb on a joystick .... because moar? Talk about definitive..... Real world example of speed and accuracy on a pad advantage: BlazBlue, Noel's 6C, Throw loop. Y+B is throw on an Xbox pad. 6B B+Y, 66B, B+Y, etc. Try it on a pad. You're coordinating a single digit (teh thumbsy) to tap out a combo. You won't have as much accuracy as easy on a stick and you never have to worry about neutral or accidentally the 4. Pad is idiot proof with this combo. Stick is.... not so much.

Meh, I expected someone to flame. I don't use a pad. I use a stick. I use several sticks, actually, with round gates (technically no gate), square gates, octogates, etc.... You don't have to hit the gate to engage the switch. In fact, not riding the gate will probably enhance the level of the game you bring immensely on any gate style. Now what I want you to do is go measure how far a d-pad press goes until it engages the switch. Then go measure how far a joystick goes to engage a switch. Try it with diagonals, etc. Use a caliper if you need complete proof that it clearly has less travel than a joystick. Check PS3 pads vs 360 pads. Then watch people use joysticks - some people use their whole friggin' arm! I do when it gets intense. And, I repeat, I don't use a pad. I'm objectively saying that pads have the tap advantage. I'd personally risk tap accuracy to gain circular and diagonal advantage on a stick. Buttons wise, I think the pad has the same advantage. Again, go measure competition joystick button travel against a PS3 pad. Check concave long travel Happ buttons (what the Atomiswaves would've used with GGX) and check short travel convex's from Sega Net City's. I'd still prefer to use a stick for plink/sweep/cross button/SC-instants. So ya, common sense wise, scientifically and just general obviously, dpads would have the ability to input tap moves faster on both the dpad and buttons. End of discussion.

Setup - 1) Purchase a NAOMI with GD-ROM 2) Unspaghetti the cabling and get it set up. 3) Insert the Melty Blood disc into the GD-ROM drive per the instructions that came with your Melty Blood GD-ROM and IC. 4) Insert the IC into the DIMM board and ensure the DIMM board is inserted and properly secured. 5) Turn it on.

A pad has one pretty significant advantage that most people don't usually notice. It can generally be compensated for pretty easily. Parry/Instant Block/Tapping-moves can be executed faster (you're moving millimeters) as opposed to a stick (possible moving a few inches). Depending on how you use the joystick, some players even move their whole arm - significantly reducing reaction time. Back dash, instant air dash, instant air back dash, super jump, etc are probably all advantaged on a pad.... if the pad isn't terrible like the 360. PS3 pads are pretty eas to tap, they're just not great at hitting corners when they get a little worn. That being said, I can't airdash worth @#%$ on a 360 pad, but I didn't mind it on the original Xbox Duke.

Ha, nice. I sort of expected the above, along with "suck less." The turn button is a bit infuriating - trying to do a quick low combo -> 2D -> oki..... wait, why am I facing the wrong direction? On the Atomiswave, Dust was replaced with Turn and the old S+HS is Dust. Doesn't help that some moves seem to automatically turn the character while others don't. It seems some knock-downs will automatically flip you, as well. A bit inconsistent. I'm on a personal mission to beat this, even if I have to burn up all of my W-blue-sky Freeplay lives.

I just tried to start seriously playing this, but every time I try "Here Comes Daredevil" and I get Millia and Testament, or Johnny and Venom.... then I have an anyeurism and die. Literally and in the game. I had a couple of questions.... What ruleset is this? Jam feels like #R. How do you not go into seizures after the forth Daredevil when Ino and Dizzy play volleyball with you? I'm thinking of trying Dramamine or something....

I have both GGX 1.5 Atomiswave and GGX NAOMI. I wouldn't call them "two completely different games," but there are some definite changes. If you need anything verified out of curiosity, just let me know. Oh ya - Robo Ky isn't in either....

Here's another goofy Tsubaki vs Jin/Hazama glitch - most prevalent with Hazama's Oroborous. Use 2C to defend against Oroborous magnet. Sometimes (most of the time with the close magnet) the 2C will count as an on-ground counterhit against Hazama and leave him invincible to any follow up. 2CC, Dragon Punch, 5B... whatever, he's totally invincible in counter-hit crumple....? Happens the most against Hazama because of the Oroborous magnet, but it also happens against Mu/Nu/Jin. Also - rarely because it's silly to try this - trying to guard point Oroborous with 22B will result in 22B going right through Hazama with no effect.

Ya, 22x anything against an opponents 22D is a lazy counterhit to combo. This matchup is hysterical if your opponent is up for it - most Tsubaki's are in my experience. I've spent a whole round trying to hit each other with counter 236x and TK birdies. j236D to 214D at the same time is great. 5B or 2C vs 236236C is funny - usually leaves you both crumpled at opposite sides of the screen. No idea why that works. Oh, and I almost forgot about the Tsubaki Rodeo! Yeehaw! Just run around seeing who can successfully TK 236C the most. Whoever whiffs the input has officially fallen off the bull.

I just 5B/22C/22D/TK 214B Tager's on XBL. :\ Zzzzzzzzzz. Note that this is XBL players, so pro by no means - they just sledge infinitely when they can't gain ground and end up eating j214x and giving me free charge, then churn the lolzbutter and end up eating a neutral jCC to BnB. Magnetism + Birdie = funny shennanigans for days. Never ever ever ever 236D Tager if your opponent Tager isn't a vegetable..... Autocorrect can suck it. Choose A/B/C based on the location of the back of Tager's head for optimal silliness. 22B has some weird characteristics against Sledge as well as 214B.

Aw, man, if I had known you'd fall for that every time.... Shoulda stuck to Ragna to wakeup-dp out of it. Sol would never play Hazama.

MikeZ explained the whole bug earlier with Tager vs Bang. Noel can definitely do it against Tager all day. You can reproduce it pretty easily with Noel vs Noel. Have the first Noel jump and block, second Noel 6C. First Noel will 44214A on during stop. You'll see the 214A go right through the second hit of 6C. Who doesn't want MikeZ videos? For something this precise, I'd like a comparison to make sure I'm not just waggling the stick with fast inputs for no gain.

You mean excluding what happens if your opponent is waiting on you to neutral tech so they can trap you in their next string while you're helplessly immobile? Ya, completely safe.

I'm too busy trying to figure out how to reliably do jumping block backdash 214A with Noel reliably... I like that one. No idea about this one. Video?

Camps? Optic Barrel *before* you get cursed.

Oh, wait, I think I got Nu's 2C confused with her 3C. You can Noel 3C early on a Nu 2C, then 22C -> combo.