XDest

On hit, Ronove. If somebody jabs you after you HIT with a 5D~B and you 5B, you're beat. Of course something is going to be safe on it, usually you expect a move you hit to give the advantage to you, this is not the case. On block it's 100% unsafe.

I saw around a 3200 damage 3C combo in a video. Went something like 5B 3C D~B [no hit] 5B 5C j.C j.B j.C j.C 236Bx5 As usual, doing the hit version instead would probably still give you a 100 damage bonus. Now, if current 5-6 rep taunt combos are doing 3700-3800 off 5B, and a really easy 3C combo is doing 3300, then you might not have to do taunt combos to get your BnBs. Of course to maximize your damage, it's always recommended that you know them.

B cancel is unsafe on block, slightly (like -1 or -2 or something) disadvantageous on hit, combos on CH. You can pretty much do anything you want unless it CH's you. C cancel is -3 on block, probably advantageous on hit. A non-canceled drive, and a forward canceled drive is generally distance-safe for the most part . But can't really be followed up for pressure purposes. They're -7 and -9 respectively. Not exactly safe, but most characters don't have a fast enough move with enough range to punish them. Then again 2C... heh. RC resets to 0 on block I'm pretty sure, and of course combos on hit and CH.

6A isn't really worth it linked unless you want to do the taunt combos. You're better off just going for a 3C combo.

You're on the right track. Use drive cancels on characters that cannot be looped. 3C -> 5D~B [no hit] -> 5B -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BB -> .. -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BBBB 3C -> 5D~B [hit] -> 5B -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BB -> .. -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BBBB 3C -> 6D~6 -> 2D~B -> 5B -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BB -> .. -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.236BBBB 3C -> 6D~6 -> j.C -> j.236B -> j.2D~B -> 5C -> 2D~6 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> j.C -> 9D~9 -> .. -> j.236BB -> j.236BBBB Any of those should be fine for Rachel I'm pretty sure.

THE DIFFERENCE IS QUITE CLEAR. ... I can get used to seeing that many taunts in a match.

I have a REALLY hard time against a Jin that knows what they're doing. - They can pressure you, but you cannot pressure them. - You will probably be in a blockstring half the game unless you get a lucky IB/backdash - 623A makes it impossible to get anywhere near him - Moving when he has 25 meter is even more impossible because of j.236D - They can force you into damage, but you only get damage if they screw up - j.B and j.C will beat all of your aerials, guaranteed. This character makes me rage so hard, how the hell is this matchup 6-4?

Delay after the 8D~6 or the 236BB.

Although if somebody throws out a 2D without you even being in the air, you can always run in for a free 6C (if you're close enough, 6C has quite a bit of range on it anyways). Some Nu players like to do that if they guess you'll jump, a lot of them don't exclusively use it on a reaction to you being in the air. Once they're scared of doing that, they'll be forced to either be scared of doing it, or force themselves to only do it on reaction. Thus, it frees up a lot more of the air for you either way. Or, what if you do a j.4D~B in anticipation of a 2D, and the 2D misses? Since you're early and they whiffed, that means you're getting a free hit, a little bit more of a reward than simply getting close. And of course, you can always simply just super jump and block if you're not confident coming in either on the ground or air as TaoFTW described. That's just the way I've seen the 2D situation with Nu. As always, if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

Sounds great TaoFTW. I'd love for there to be organized strats in one thread.

I love 2B vs rolling opponents, its good range really helps. A few points you haven't touched upon yet that might have been stated in the threads you closed: - 6B becomes higher reward against Noel, Rachel and Litchi, since it can be easily comboed into 5B 3C on normal hit against those characters. On several other characters this can also work on normal hit, but needs to be timed, making it harder to confirm. Of course, on Counter Hit, and on 6B 2D Rapid Cancel, this will work on pretty much any character. In those situations, the reward jumps up to around 3500 damage, not insanely far away from the damage you would get from a 236CC overhead. As well, since it's +2 on block and has followup possibilities, it's not that much of a risk beyond its slow speed. - Her drive cancel C is her most safe cancel at -3 on block (and advantageous on hit I believe, correct me if I'm wrong). Of course any attack you do directly after can be anti-aired if they have a true anti-air with invincibility. But since you're already in the air, you have access to air dashes, and of course all of your other drive cancels/jumps. There's a lot of uses within pressure for this type of tool. You mentioned D~C 2D~B, but that's probably the least safe of options (although tricky), since a jumping back opponent ruins it. I think there's quite a few ways to either use the predictions of your opponent to keep him locked down using these options or to be able to retreat depending on the situation and character. - Things relating to 5B 2B are probably the only way you can mix up with a low in a true blockstring. This can be useful. - 2D~B j.A is a more difficult to react to crossup overhead with less reward than 2D~B j.C, and it's a bit harder to anti-air as well because of its sheer speed. As well, it can go into a 2A low a lot easier, which is a plus. - A couple more intentional green air-throw setups would be: 3C D~B [hit] 5B 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 j.B+C (vs Noel and Litchi (possibly other small characters) with no delay). 3C D~B [hit] 2D~6 6D~6 j.A j.A 9D~9 j.B+C (Most characters) And etc.... there's several ways to be creative with a chracter's hitbox to create a green air throw tech trap. Although situations like the one in the opening post are nice since you still have your air dashes. As well, playing around with the amount of hits you use before launch. That might also create more green air throw opportunities. - It's possible at a range to punish a rolling opponent with 6C. Of course, this is high-risk, high-reward. But if it's a situation where you know you can hit it, and you NEED the damage, weigh the risks and go for it. Please correct anything if I'm wrong. I'm just trying to contribute, maybe you can make some of these a little more concise.

No, I meant that's where the delay is. (9D~9 ... 236BB 236BBBB) the time between the 236BB and the 236BBBB should be as close to instant as possible without turning it into 236BBB. Against characters like Ragna and Nu, you should be getting it 100% of the time through this method. Arakune and Tager can be done without a delay, which is why they're so easy. Smaller characters like Jin or Rachel will need a larger delay to make it work. You'll end up only getting three hits to end off with instead of four. Pretty much, the bigger the hitbox, the less you need to delay at that time. 236BB 236BBBB isn't hard, people just misunderstand where the delay is that makes it work.

Your delay is in the wrong place. It's after the final 9D~9 and before the first 236B. The time between 236BB and 236BBB should be as close to instant as you can pull off without you continuing the string.

Makes sense, since it's so incredibly slow.

Yeah, if you're going for 2 loops j.A j.A 9D~9 etc works fine. But usually if it's a 2 loop character, a drive cancel combo will get you a lot more damage. Also, what you think is 3 loops is definitely only 2. The loops are usually denoted as after the initial drive. So 3C 6D~6 j.C 6D~6 j.C 6D~6 is two. Personally, against Jin I use 3C D~B [hit] 5C 236AA 2D~9 j.C 9D~9 j.C 9D~9 .. 236BB 236BBB. Does around 3750 I believe. Most things you'll get with double drive loops cap off at around 3500. One more thing, you can get around 5000 damage by cancelling any drive into a taunt on CH. Just like j.D~B, j.2D~B and 4D~B on CH.

CH 2D~A 66 taunt 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C 9D~9 .. 236BB 236BBBB 2D~6 [~5020] Thanks for the idea that the untechable time for a CH 2D~A was quite long. The 6C's didn't end up getting me as much damage no matter what I added to it. But going straight for a taunt gave me more damage than any other 2D combo. Wouldn't have thought about it if you didn't post the original idea, thanks. And it's probably an amazing idea vs characters you can't horizontal drive loop as much.

A regular CH 2D combo can do 4700 meterless though...

It's not only 2A. 3C/Crawl actually goes under lower things than 2A ones, and pose a higher damaging threat as well. 3C when used by itself without any links can reach 4000 very easily. It really screws a character over when another character has moves that will trump your's in any given situation. All you have to really worry about is that you don't get drive parried by Bang. And since crawl/2A mashing gets past that VERY easily, it's nothing to even worry about. IF he hits you and pressures you with you predicting improper, then he can get some damage/oki that can get you to guess more. But to get that started in the first place, he has to deal with 80%+ of his attacks simply whiffing. That's a big deal. imo the charts have it right, 65:35 in Tao's favour.

I apologize then, haven't spent enough time on Litchi, that's why I asked a question. And got a straight answer. Thanks.

I believe if we were going by tools, Litchi would probably be at the top of the mid tier. A DP that's difficult to punish at tip range, great aerials/air-to-air game, amazing corner games and traps, good anti-airs, and fine damage output in general. And while she has the staff, she's got pretty big hitboxes on her moves. imo, a lot like the tools Jin personally has, and he's high tier. Can anybody tell me why they think Litchi is worse than Taokaka, Ragna and Noel?

Then I'm way too used to online, which makes anything that takes good timing to hell. Heh.

Actually, for 5D and 236A after a blocked 6C, somebody cannot beat it out with any regular moves. With 236A, a DP/super can beat it out, while 5D is a true blockstring off 6C. For non hit-confirm situations, it's good to have 6C combos that involve 5D and/or 236A, since those are the safest options off it if the opponent were to block it. 6C is not an unsafe move. Therefore it cannot be considered high risk in that sense, just in the sense that it's pretty slow to start off with. There are almost no times where you can react to a 6C hit in time to do a 66 taunt reliably unless you literally guess it'll hit. Although 236C is very, very possible. That's why it's the most common option, does good damage and is easy to confirm off it, as long as you're not already doing 5D/236A, expecting the opponent to block the 6C.

Well I do admit in like 8000 matches, I've had 10-20 matches against Carl players tops. So yeah, I do need practice there. Actually, most people need more practice against Carl. There aren't that many good Carls around either. Or many Carls at all for that matter.

Don't worry, I'll still play anyone for good practice. I really need that Carl practice, haven't got much against players that actually loop with Carl.

The one that homes in on Arakune and stays on him. Also, 2A actually has a slightly higher hitbox than the crawl, even though it ducks quite a bit. Be careful with 2A.