XDest

Let's get a good list together of what the crawl ducks. Nu: 5D 4D 4B 5C j.A/j.B/j.C/j.D 5A 2A 236236D 632146D Ragna: 5A 5B j.A/j.B/j.C/j.D 2A (being serious here) 214A 214B Jin: 214A/B/C/D 5D 236A/B/C/D 5A 5C j.A j.D Bang: 5A 5B 2D 5D j.D j.B j.A 2363214C Tager: 5A 5C 5D j.A/B/C/D (not j.2B, lol) 41236D Noel: 5A 5B 5C 5D CR 236D CR B j.A j.B j.D 236A/B/C/D 214A Arakune 5A 5B j.A Tracking Cloud (OH GOD WHY DIDNT I KNOW THIS EARLIER) Haku-men 5A 5B close 6C j.A 2A Litchi 2A 5A 5B 6C j.A j.C (still unfinished)

Jin has a silly hitbox, so I'm pretty sure 2D~5 has to be replaced by 2D~C followed by a small wait for him to be at the right height for the combo to work. Noel should be fine with 2D~5, regardless of walls or not. Some characters need the wall to be there for 9D~9 9D~9 , Noel actually doesn't. For characters where 9D~9 9D~9 236BBB 236BBB completely whiffs and you're near a wall, you can always do 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB instead (after the a cancel) (I think Litchi is the only one for this occurrence). On small characters the j.C will whiff 100% of the time, on weird hitboxes like Tao it'll be hard to land consistently without exchanging the 2D~5 for 2D~C. With Jin's specific case, the j.C will whiff every time unless you make this exchange. Although, I'm pretty sure with small characters you can replace j.C with j.A j.A and do a different 2D~5 combo. But then you lose a few hundred damage and it's probably worth it to do an easier more damaging combo.

6B 2D RC 3C D~B [hit] 5B 2D~5 6D~6 j.C D~A 9D~9 9D~9 236BBB 236BBB [4100] Yummy crouch punishment. Also it's possible to do more damage off of 236CC by itself when its used as an overhead and not after 6C or 4B+C. 236CC 2D~C .. 6D~6 j.C D~A 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB [3982] Just a couple of damaging overhead options that are a bit outside the norm damage-wise.

Could always drive loop, or if they're too small, other types of D~B combos including D~B [no hit] 5B 5C or D~B [hit] 5B or 6D~6 2D~B 5B, etc

(near corner) BURST 6C 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C 9D~9 236BBBB 2D~6 [3470] lol.

Easier Bang/Carl (Yes Carl, whoo~) 6C Combo: 6C 236CC j.C 9D~9 66 j.C 236BBBB 2D~6 [4193] Carl 3C Combo: 3C D~B [no hit] 2D~5 6D~6 j.A j.C 9D 66 j.C 236BB 236BBB [3308] 3C 6D~6 2D~B [hit] 5B 2D~6 j.C 9D 66 j.C 236BBB 2D~6 [3543]

Hm, it looks like 2D~C (then delay) makes 2D~5-type combos easier to do, and makes them possible where previously they were impossible. 5B 3C D~B [hit] 5C 236A 2D~C [hit] ... 6D~6 j.C D~A [hit] 9D~9 9D~9 236BBBB 2D~6 [3872] Without 5B proration it does 3900-something. It also makes 2D~5-type combos work on Jin, and 9D~9 9D~9 combos easier overall because you're less above the opponent when you start. It makes the j.C actually hit on Rachel but you can't drive her after it. Here's one that works with 3C by itself (for crouching stuff obviously) 3C D~B [hit] 5C 236A 2D~C [hit] 6D~6 j.C D~A [hit] 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB [4023] Broke 4k without a taunt or 6C whoo~ Anyone else want to work with this?

Nope, confirmed not to change inside regular combos. Just outside of combos the hitbox is different I think.

Eh I like the 2D~5 6D~6 route on characters you can drive loop, just makes things more interesting. But this also works fine on Noel which is a plus. You can do the same combo finish off a triple drive loop vs most characters for around the same damage, but you can't triple drive loop if they're already near the corner. So I guess use 2D~5 setups closer to the corner, drive loops further away from the corner. vs Noel and Nu, maybe other characters it doesn't matter, since this combo will work everywhere regardless on them.

Works on Carl if you do 9D~9 236BB j.C 9D~9 236BBBB as the finish instead. Looks like a good Rachel combo too. For Noel I'd rather do 5B 3C D~B [no hit] 5B 2D~5 6D~6 j.C D~A 9D~9 9D~9 236BBB 236BBB. The finish on your combo doesn't seem to work on Noel outside of corners. Also here's a Ragna specific combo using that setup. (The j.C won't hit on anyone else with this one) 5B 3C 6D~6 2D~B [hit] 5B 2D~5 6D~6 j.C D~A 9D~9 9D~9 236BBBB 2D~6 [3890]

Well, 6B 5B 3C does combo on a crouching Noel on normal hit. Also, you have a ranged poke in 5C (10 frames). Only her drives have any kind of range. And those get screwed over after block by the very same ranged poke, or a punish depending on what she follows up with. Just be aware that her 3C goes under it. Don't overuse anything aerial, just like the Litchi match-up. She's simply got aerial attacks with a bigger hitbox, and faster. And she has several things while on the ground to hit you out of the air. Try to stay at mid-range. Of course you have to move in the air but try to limit it. If you need to go into the air to come in, try to IAD or 214D, or if you have enough time and they're not reacting fast enough 4D~anything. Punish her hard on block. The drive > crossup is unsafe, the drive > launcher is unsafe, the drive > other drives can be CH 5C'd, her 3C is unsafe. Not to mention she doesn't have a real DP, just things that are invincible against certain move heights, so if you play it smart it's very possible to keep her pressured. There's lots to work with against Noels to get good damage.

j.D~B [hit] taunt 236CC 2D~6 j.C 9D~9 j.C 9D~9 236BB 236BBBB 2D~6 [4997 (I think)]

I was arguing a point. That's what these posts were for. No need to get worked up.

That's just an extremely good Tao with a great pressure game. It's very possible, just an uphill battle. A lot of the points I was making were still reinforced by even that video. Although, I'm guessing that arguing over what is only around .5 or 1 match-up point in theory is completely useless, because I think it's closer to 6.5 or 7. Ah well. Like any match-up, if the player is really good, he can overcome these types of obstacles because he's so used to playing against them. Also: Invite me to the house gatherings, please. I need a good amount of offline and ps3 pad practice. I think I got a good bit of that with SoGo, but I never know about any of these things.

No it isn't. But of course it's quite the uphill battle. As I said, 2D/j.8D generally is the best way in the match-up for Tao to get good damage (and yeah, it can get to 4500+ quite easily), and the best way to get somebody while they're summoning a cloud high up. But that's only if you're at the right angle, and in the right vertical range. If you're lower to the ground when jumping she cannot do that. But all her other jumping moves as well as her 6A are not only very situational, but they cannot be used in a regular manner to combat him. Tao wins the game on the ground usually, I agree to that and said that before. Arakune wins in the air and in terms of special property (the curse, obviously) But I truly believe in terms of evasive property, sheer damage opportunity, and setting things up properly to get damage, Arakune definitely has her beat. Maybe I'll come over to gety one night to watch how that Tao player deals with this character. Because I'm simply not seeing what doesn't make this match-up difficult as hell. I didn't get to see either of the Arakune players nor that Tao player at the last TO tourney unfortunately, although it got a small turnout. It's funny, the Tao players are all going "Yeah, this is definitely a bad match-up." While the Arakunes are going "Nah, it's not that bad." I think it's a beatable but very difficult match-up that is in his favour. I do not believe it's hopeless.

Yeah, I believe this goes here just fine

No, it is not. That's an easy way to get cursed for free.

How about his massive advantage in the air via dives/large hitboxes, great evasive property on all his movement, and the fact that no matter how Taokaka moves in this match-up she has a good probability of getting cursed? Tips to evade and/or block don't cut it, they're prerequisites. But if there's less attacks that win over other attacks a good amount of the time, and there's no semi-safe/proper way to move around and hit him... there's a problem. She does NOT have an answer for everything. She does NOT have a direct answer to his evasion. She does NOT have a direct answer for his dives or any of his other air attacks. She only has answers against him up close and on the ground. How often is that shit going to happen? You're not posing a very convincing argument. Just a vague one saying "You're wrong and I'm right." That's juvenile. Be specific, provide examples, and give a real explanation. Otherwise, stop posting.

I didn't say it's impossible. I said it's an extremely difficult match-up. Not one that's 6-4, or laughably 5-5. Most of the things you're talking about end up playing into Arakune's hand. Half of the time when you're evading something Arakune will space correctly to take advantage of that situation. And when your solution to everything is just "IB everything", and not a pure attack solution, usually something is up. If she drives somebody pulling out a cloud, by the time you react the cloud will already be out, and you'll be running right into it. You have to guess beforehand. Meanwhile, Arakune can just do a faster air move instead and beat you out. Maybe a nice CH dive for 4000 damage. j.D is horrible in this match-up because of this fact. Her best way to stop Arakune from putting up a cloud would be to double air dash and j.A. Of course this will net you no damage since you just used up all your jumps, and j.A prorates heavily even if you didn't. If she drives over the bell bug, what's stopping you from simply doing your own anti-air or one of your air attacks, hitting her out of it, and starting a huge combo? Hell, if she does 2D, the dive will even exchange with it. No damage for Tao. Her best option to get damage against Arakune, and it can be foiled quite easily with a move Arakunes do all the time. Yeah, you can backdash out of a move that has high recovery and get good damage. But if it's so risky, a good Arakune player will not let it whiff. It will be blocked or hit, and that strategy will go completely to waste. As well, let's say I guess you'll do that instead of react, and get hit by one of his curse projectiles on the ground during the backdash. Now we get to play the curse game and have our barrier/guard libra raped. You're not saying any ways that Taokaka will actually beat out Arakune's attacks and get damage. That's usually not a good sign since Taokaka gets her best damage on CH obviously. Arakune has an answer for everything Taokaka can do. Taokaka doesn't have an answer for many of Arakune's moves. And saying for a Taokaka player to block something is a horrible idea. Your best idea was IB'ing which a universal element (that Hakumen, Bang and Tager have as well), but cannot be relied on all the time because of it's obvious timing/execution restriction. Therefore, it's not a good match-up. And not one that's close to good while still in Arakune's favour. It's a goddamn bad match-up.

I'm not complaining, I'm arguing with specific valid points. You seem more like you're complaining about me refuting your opinion. That's what this thread is for. To discuss the match-up. Why the hell am I in the wrong for that?

Eh? I was just trying to argue my point in a nice and direct manner... No need to go off like that, Miso. I never see any Arakune vs Tao matches end up like Matt says, and am quite confused on the matter. http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm7183671 Just block and evade, you'll be just fine... ugh.

Easily? Seriously? The chances are much better of Tao moving into a bell bug, dive, cloud, etc... And when she's in the air, Arakune obviously has the advantage because she's already moving towards him, trying to avoid shit. Inescapably, the move Arakune will do will come out faster, and have a bigger hitbox. You don't want to j.D him, since he can just cloud you while you're coming towards him. Half the time you don't want to 2D on the ground when he's in the air because you'll be at the wrong angle, or it'll trade with a dive. But 2D is usually your best bet anyways because of the damage. 6A is pathetic and doesn't anti-air anything, it's not worth talking about. j.C is too angle-specific usually but is still her best air attack, j.A has a really small hitbox and won't get any damage (but will beat him out), and j.B is too slow. If Taokaka gets past everything, Arakune will still probably beat her out. There's no proper strategy vs Arakune in the air. Most of them end out with you chasing them, and eating a dive or curse. Just because you can move well, does not mean you have a good air/anti-air game.

Explain why first. I gave valid explanations where I believe it's by far her worst match-up. Mostly every Taokaka player on this site is going to say the same. Also, as Taokaka has poor guard libra and negative penalty, that's probably the worst advice you can give us.

Uh... it's because you're doing 236AA not 236CC. btw, apparently http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V7zbWNznbs&NR=1 is related. Well, I guess it is a taunt combo in its own regard.

Done.