Moblin

Yes it works for no-tech and forward roll into you, but I think if they back roll and the 2b catches, they are much too far away for 5a to connect, at least in my experience.

Sorry, I should have clarified that it's hard to hit confirm 2b into anything on a backroll unless you predicted it. Yes 2b will catch back rolls but the untechable time is so low that before you can hit confirm into gurren they've already air-teched backwards and have put distance between you and them already - with the only punishment 2b doing is its base damage. So my point was that if you're going to roll against Hakumen, backroll is by far the best choice and is hard to punish on reaction or hit confirm from the 2b option-select.

I think back rolls are about the only thing that haku can't punish very well. You basically have to predict the back roll and gurren or enma or IAD agito to keep then locked down we're they're back up. I think gurren is the best at this because if timed right I think it will catch the back roll for a > kishuu follow-up, or hit them with a meaty gurren if they neutral tech. 2B is such a good answer against forward rolls and late-techs that all my opponents pretty much just always neutral tech, or back roll away and both work very well. My question is how do you condition an opponent to tech immediately after Agito combo ender? I like to airdash in on them as they tech but if they tech just a little bit late, the mixup is useless and I just AD right over them as they lay there. How can Hakumen condition opponents to tech immediately after, j.b > Agito? (if at all) Coming down with j.2C or j.B just blue beats the combo and does minimal damage.

Probably pretty well, especially against forward rolls. But if they just neutral tech through it then you're stuck in a whiffed 2C and they get a free hit because it's so slow. Every time I miss a 5c > 2c link in a combo, my opponent gets a free combo and a little part of me dies.

I think it's replaced hotaru in the way you used to use it for anti-jump out. I'm going to try using it when they're in the corner. It's pretty much safe on anything but whiff if spaced correctly, which is weird because it seems very unsafe on block. Is there updated Frame data for CP? The data I am finding on the dustloop wiki says 2c is -17 on block. Not sure if that was changed for CP. 2c meaty --> gurren is a great frame trap that catches a ton of jump or mash outs. Not to mention it seems to have a lot of block stun so if your opponent blocks it mid-jump they sink down to Earth a little, locking them down for a gurren/some other move so you can continue your pressure.

Yeah that makes sense, I think the hardest part is timing it correctly anyway. Agito does a better job of crossing up and locking them down if they jump or backdash, without the ending lag of Tsubaki, and I'm sure I wasn't the first one to try it in CP. Back to the lab then The question is, when to 2C? I love that move now after watching the latest of Jourdal's video uploads

Merry Christmas Hakumens! What do you guys think about using Tsubaki out of an IAD as a crossup like we do agito? It seems very good and nets 2.8k for 3 stars and is just as hard to block as cross-up agito from what I can tell. When you just need a little more to end the round and have them guarding. My defense for the legitimacy of this is when you IAD to leave the ground they will block high which will make their character stand up, therefore being in range of the tsubaki. The only hard thing is the timing to make the tsubaki a cross-up. Also on an unrelated note, for when you try airdash mixup I've found something that seems really good. Airdash in at head-level (easy to do after doing 5a, j.B --> agito combo ender, airdash before you hit the ground as they are teching) and immediately do J.B. You can use j.a right after the j.B but before you hit the ground for a double overhead that is very hard to see coming. This combos into 2b for a Bnb(about 2.5k and corner carry) and does about 4-5k if you OD cancel the enma. Use this until they are conditioned to blocking the double overhead and then do AD, J.b, buffer renka and it will come out as soon as you hit the ground, giving them a low when they expect the j.a overhead. Seems like a lot of work to do for just a small combo, but it's useful when your opponent is blocking all your other mixup. In addition, I saw something very cool in the latest Haku videos uploaded by jourdal. When your opponent is blocking, jump over them, airdash into them backwards and J.B ---> Agito ---> J.B. It's kind of a double crossup and looks hilarious to boot. Today I learned Hakumen is Santa except everybody deserves coal and the coal is actually justice.

Which is why multi-hit moves will beat it. But as far as single-hit moves go, would it be safe to say that if you can counter it and hit them, you can enma-counter it as well? Also from watching japanese matches, most notably the ones that Jourdal just uploaded with the Gdlike Hakumen, 2c has replaced Hotaru in terms of an anti-jump out move. I had no idea it even reached that high.

I just haven't been playing many Tsubakis lately but I'm sure that info will come in handy when one finally crops up here in the scene. For now, I've gotten to the point where the biggest thing I need to work on mechanically is using the enma follow up off of counters instead of just letting the grab go out. I've lost matches that were otherwise won if I had the presence of mind to use it. What I've discovered so far is that you're going to have to decide which follow up to the counter you're going to use as you use it. A quick one-two punch of D and then immediately A ---> Hold has been getting me the enma every time. The question is which moves shouldn't it be used on? I think it can be used on anything that isn't multi-hit. If it's a multi-hit move you will just get CH out of it. Does anyone have frame data on which hitbox comes out faster - the grab from a normal counter or the Enma option?

Figured I'd correct some of the information on here and also give my view of the matchup as a Hakumen main. Hotaru. This move is less godlike than in previous versions of the game but it is still safe on block as it is jump-cancellable if it hits anything. Get used to reacting to when it whiffs and you will have a good time punishing Hotaru-happy hakumens. Really it's a bad thing to do in neutral game now. Hakumen will usually use this move if they have you in the corner and are predicting you to attempt a jump-out. The other situation is when they are almost sure that you will DP on wakeup - Hotaru will indeed beat it. To beat this simply don't jump - block low and it will whiff because of the hitbox changes to it, allowing you to punish with 5a or 5b if you are fast. Hotaru whiffs on smaller characters like Litchi even when I hop into them at point blank range and use it. Good Hakumens will not use this move much. If a hakumen uses it, that's because old habits die hard because it was godlike in extend. I'm not sure about j.B being a good punish to a grab. Rising j.B is largely uncomboable unless hakumen simply wants to do a quick 2k damage with rising j.B to beat your grab into tsubaki. Rather if I see a grab coming for sure, I will Hotaru for 3-4k, or 3c(the sweep) for even more. Assuming you're talking about grounded grabs here. My idea of what Four winds was is wrong so I deleted that part of the post. 4 winds, 4 winds, 4 winds. Get good at keeping a hakumen locked down with this. Just because he can counter it or void it doesn't mean it's unusable. However, I almost feel like keeping the staff and poking him out with itsuu or long-range normals is more frustrating to deal with. If you do want to use it, do not make the launch obvious. If you vary the timings and make it wiggle a bit before letting it fly it's much harder to cut/counter. Also consider using Itsuu a ton. It beats pretty much everything we have at range. After a little bit of full screen footsies, the average hakumen usually will get a little impatient and just IAD in on you. Itsuu(the guard point thing, right?) beats this every time, but try to smack him out of the air right away instead of waiting for him to hit your guard point. If he hits the guard point he can sometimes cancel into hotaru for shenanigans. Best case scenario, he hits your guard point, and you CH him. Worst cast scenarios, he hits your guard point, cancels into Hotaru, and CH's you. If you keep waiting in guard point through the Hotaru, he can instantly double jump and barrier to block the follow up and fall down onto you. Don't wait for the guard point if you can help it when he's in the air. Now then, this is all at the long-range where Litchi has the advantage. What about when he gets in on you and starts his pressure? Hakumen pressure usually consists of frame traps and grab mixups. If you know what he can do, he is one of the easiest characters to defend against (imo). You just have to be patient. Hakumen players love antsy opponents that like to jump out of pressure every chance they get. Just block. React to the stomp overhead, and react to the grabs. He loses meter with every good pressure option he can do. All he has after that is footsy frame traps and the occasional AD Agito. When you are knocked down: Late neutral tech or Tech roll away. DO NOT roll forward. A good hakumen will catch this every time with 2b and he loses nothing by using it while you tech. Late techs can work here but be careful - if he calls your bluff he can just 5c you and end the round from 75% health. Tech rolls away work wonders against hakumen because he has to predict it to punish it, so just don't be predictable with it. When he gets knockdown on you do not DP on wake-up, 90% of the time. The reward is often not worth it. If he predicts it, it means at least 3-4k and maybe 8k overdrive combo, and wake-up is when I have the most time to think about the DP predicton. If you're going to DP, the best time to do it would be during his pressure. Hotaru used to be the main pressure tool for haku to beat potential jump outs, mash outs, or DPs. Now that it whiffs if you sit still, he can't use it for a cover-all-option-juggernaut-pressure move like before, meaning you are safer to DP than ever before because haku will rarely use it during pressure. Hakumen has a ton of holes in his pressure. Learn when he likes to command dash to continue pressure. It differs between hakumen players, but it is usually used when you are just pushed out of reach from any other moves to hit. This is when you can DP. Don't be scared of hakumen's pressure until he has 5 stars. At 5 stars he can pull off some crazy shit from either Tsubaki (aerial roundhouse sword of death) or even from his stomp overhead (He can rapid cancel and get a high-damage combo on NORMAL hit). Some last thoughts: Agito does not hit overhead, it is a mid-level attack even from high in the air Do not use obvious meaties on his wake-up, he'll just 2d it Empty jumps --> grab to bait out counters work wonders against hakumens who love to take long Drives through the country side. Feel free to correct any of my information, I'm not at Spark level but I am intensely dedicated to the character and have played him since CT.

I've beaten Litchi's DP with 2c and 5c and it's very satisfying. Is it confirmed that doing a 5c meaty on her wakeup will beat the DP thanks to the void bubble, or is there a slight delay to the timing?

Oh. Today I looked up hakumen's astral's name. Also apparently the literal translation of his drive is Slaying God. That explains a lot.

Wait a minute. Hakumen killed terumi? In the CP story or EX? edit: oh, it seems like he used a "time killer" technique. Who says that his astral hasn't been this move all along?

The only time I've landed OD yukikaze was in losers finals of a tournament we had after CP was out for like 2 weeks. No one falls for that one anymore

Usually everyone I fight bursts the moment I hit them with a CH 3c or 6B, before the move is even finished. They know that Hakumen can get huge damage off of it, and unless I hit them with it twice in one round (not likely against skilled opponents) you're never going to get a good OD combo off of it. My usual OD route is through is Enma. Poke them down, hit them with a Bnb for 2k or so, and they're in crippling range by an OD combo as long as it doesn't start with 2a. 2b ---> enma, OD ---> Zantetsu combo gives you about 5k unburstable, and is much harder to see coming because of its speed. More than 5k in the corner. The other starter I am having a lot of success with is Hotaru - get them into the corner, wait for them to jump or airdash out, Hotaru and instantly overdrive out of the airdash. These take a bit of hit comfirming to use, but they are by far the more reliable OD starters for me. (These are all assuming you're at less than 50% HP) If their burst is gone, I usually go the noob route and link anything to 5c --> OD. It's so easy after that to just link moves together and end with super for like 3k more damage than normal.

It seems like Haku's BnB in this version is the hardest it's been so far. Even the airdash j.B --> j.a ---> 2C from previous iterations was easier. I've had to practice it about an hour a day and even then I still drop it about 10% of the time. That said, it's the same timing with every character. When playing online, instead of looking for the visual cues to confirm the next hit in the combo, you should just listen to the rhythm of your arcade stick after landing whatever confirm into the BnB. The audio cues from your physical controller is the same as offline, but the visual display will be slightly off from what you expect and that's what messes online combos up. So what I'm saying is that real men do online combos with their eyes closed.

I posted a couple of my matches from a stream in the Critique thread. I've gotten a lot better since then, even winning grand finals of the latest tournament which was also streamed in my local scene. We try to stream BB every Friday night. The thing about the CO scene is tho, we're all not very good. We slowly get better but the average level of play is simply not on par with the east coast or west coast scenes from what I've seen. However, we are all getting better at a good pace I feel. If anyone watches the stream and wants to give input about the weaknesses of the scene overall, go for it. It can only help us. http://www.twitch.tv/strikefirstco/profile/pastBroadcasts The BB tournament we had two weeks ago is the latest broadcast as of this post

It definitely helps if you find the character of hakumen himself appealing rather than any gameplay mechanic he might have, since that almost always changes from version to version. I personally miss the defensive way to play hakumen from the past --> blocking like a boss, becoming an impenetrable shield that fucks you up when he finally feels like it. However, I still have lot of fun with him in this version as well.

When you're getting up, block low and don't press anything. Watch your opponent. If he hits low, you block it. If he uses an overhead, you can react quick enough, with practice, to block high. If he throws, you can reject it if you're quick enough. Block until you seen an opening to escape by jumping and barrier blocking, or by throwing out a counterattack - usually 2a or 3c if you are feeling lucky. When he is getting up, time a 2b or a 2a to meet him the split second that he recovers. With hakumen you don't have a lot of moves to hit your opponent while he's blocking, so you have to be smart and try to throw out a move when he thinks it's safe to escape. This move is sometimes 2b, 3c, or gurren (214A). If you notice he mashes buttons after he gets up, hit him with a 3c and learn to combo from that. Hope that helps. These are general guidelines but they don't take dragon punches, command grabs, or other things into account. Try to get inside our opponent's head and recognize what he likes to do and when. Watch videos in the video thread. All the hakumen players in those know what they're doing and you can learn almost all the basics of how to play by watching what they do.

Quick question: After someone hits 5d or 2d, how long is the window for pressing A to get FC enma to come out? Do you press it once or hold it? Can you do it on reaction or do you have to have already decided whether to use enma or the regular counter before the move hits?

The only thing that can really make you sorry for using Agito Oki is them DP'ing on wakeup, which hakumen is really good at baiting anyways. Where should you use agito during pressure? In the last game, hotaru was my go-to pressure move. Empty hop, pause, hop >hotaru mindgames has gotten so many counterhits for me it's not even funny. Now though, if they just keep crouched then hotaru completely wiffs and they get a free punish. I still do it every now and again against antsy opponents, but it seems like people are using agito for pressure in a lot of situations where hotaru was used in previous versions. So again, how does Agito fit into our pressure and when should you use it outside of stuffing AAs, and ending combos?

But what if they see my 3c and just try to jump out instead of punishing? Should I 3C > RC > 3C > RC and combo from there?

Ooooh, that's a good idea. I'll start doing that. There are also two things I've been doing that have been really helpful for opening up and creating opportunities: 1. Frame trapping with 2a and 2b, catching their jump or mash on a 2b, and going into enma from it. It takes some hit confirm practice but 2b > enma is one of the most star efficient things you can do off of 2b. Not to mention you can OD off it by cancelling enma for very fast, surprising damage for the finisher. 2. Like others have been talking about, ending the air combo early with j.5b, agito, and airdashing in on their wake-up, usually with j.B. How is this working out for you guys and what other mixups can you do besides j.b? I've had success with j.b (blocked), delay, Tsubaki for easy damage. What about airdashing in but landing and hitting 2b immediately?

Alright, I'd like to take a break from combo talk and start asking questions about how to land the hits that leads to the combos that we spend so much time practicing. I'd love to hear you guys' methods on how to open up the opponent for a hit. After the first two weeks, people in my scene stopped getting hit by easy CH 3c. Surprise, surprise. Since then, I've come up with two pretty reliable methods to getting in on the opponent for a hit, but I need more things to try as far as oki, mixup, and frame traps go. Is this the correct thread to talk about it?

I play a litchi player who likes to sit and wait for me to approach. And as a hakumen player I love to airdash in. When you're airdashing into a Litchi, what is the best way to deal with her guard-point anti-air? I couple things I have tried is coming in with a low aerial, and sometimes you can actually catch it with 2d when you land. I've also had success with airdashing with j.2a instead of j.2c. The hitbox lasts long enough where it can cut the staff after it hits the guard point, creating a void and hitting litchi. I had a few questions about it though. Is it just a one-hit guard point? So if you hit with an aerial then canceled into agito would it hit, or beat/trade with the counterattack? I'm also thinking if agito wouldn't work, hotaru would here if you could time it right.