Heavy_Mental

Looking forward to seeing that guide. This threads need a sticky.

First two links for Akira vids aren't working. Don't think any of the links for the Galileo vids are working.

Here's a pile of Galileo match vids I've got saved up. Hardly speak or know a word of Japanese so I can't provide a very accurate translation. Can only guess the content from the Chinese characters I recognize. 5/15/2010 Post-SBO Qualifiers Casuals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DLukt6Tonw&playnext=1&videos=IQFgqqHZI-Q http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lt6NL-F6U8&playnext=1&videos=4sFRDca_av8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WnTeN2s28H0&playnext=1&videos=WlLNFLCipPQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP7DvaeiTQ8&playnext=1&videos=wV6vsOJTfCI 4/25/2010 Post-3v3 Tournament Casuals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBzFYVZsQQY&playnext=1&videos=li-Tr-7MoEc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46DNLBiwbPk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZx0VTOQQrc&playnext=1&videos=9g5upf7o5L4 12/27/2010 Post-2v2 Tournament Casuals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOsxjzRFGb4&playnext=1&videos=c28N8PGz7wY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF_dwYP9Ex0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txixeGT1mlo&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7Q5sL_G-LI&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X79N0zhssAA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2dIFz3Qqew&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4JIenq-D_k&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTpVmuLUXp0&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGC2-S65bYk&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBEU46e4ccM&feature=related Miscellaneous Galileo Match Vids (Transalation Needed) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPDxk83lR8w&playnext=1&videos=7PYcbDnn4oY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKyLaL9Ya_o&playnext=1&videos=WhpJXDjJ--Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejqbyNlyGbs&playnext=1&videos=RYoGXgRiwIs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHPuxMWok6s&playnext=1&videos=ibsyYmM7jQQ

This. Don't bother with 3C>Gadget Finger. Go with 3C>5C>5D instead.

You'd expect good footsies in a Tager vs. Hakumen matchup but apparently not. Both players spent a lot of time walking backwards when they should've been walking forwards. Tager, to get in, and Hakumen, to keep Tager out and to keep him honest. Astaroth wasted a lot of Spark Volts there. Against a patient Hakumen, Tager might have to spend a Spark Volt on block for an oppurtunity to get in. Astaroth just seems like he was foolishly hoping for Hakumen's guard to slip. B-Sledge and 2D are retarded unsafe against Hakumen and can be countered on reaction for decent damage. Best part of this match would have to be Astaroth's Gadget Flinger mixups. Good stuff.

You need to learn your combos. Don't bother going online unless you have. You can hit Ragna out of Carnage Scissors in between the hits. 720 if you have the meter, otherwise, take your pick between a free 2C FC combo or 360B. I say go with the latter until you actually learn the combos. Followup hit of Hell's Fang can be punished with 5D on IB, not sure about normal block. 5C should work though. Other general advice - go watch match vids. They should give you an idea of how to approach Tager play.

Shame. Why'd it get deleted?

I second this notion.

You never cease to make me chuckle Henaki. xD

Since when has this thread title changed from "BB:CS Match-Up Chart" to "Let's Theorize About What Buffs Will Make Tager Not Suck hard"? "Hurr durr rook at me Ma, I maed uh funny. Hurr hur hurr.." All that aside though, I believe the main problem with Tager doesn't lie with him (though he certainly has his flaws) as much as it lies with an overpowered top-tier. Getting outzoned is fine, getting outranged is fine, getting rushed down is fine, but getting outdamaged is ridiculous. Thank God Tager actually has better ways to get in now, but Gadget Finger doesn't have much to do with that. The top-tier definitely need damage nerfs. I don't know how Tager's matchups with Carl, Arakune, Lambda, or Taokaka will be improved. Though most players seem to drop the tauntloop, getting outdamaged by a light bruiser is definitely not acceptable. I expect the tauntloop will be dealt with soon enough anyways. Against Lambda, the only thing I can think of is to give Spark Volt some projectile invulnerability on startup. Tager seems to do decent against the rest of the cast, which is like only Noel, Jin, Tsubaki, and Rachel (not counting Mu and Makoto).

If you don't understand how to tell tone from words, you clearly still on grade school level with Reading Comprehension. Don't ask me to spell it out for you. You know what I'm talking about. If you don't though, you're even more thick than I originally suspected. If you're insistent on not letting this go, then you can go bother other members who share my stance. I'm sure they'll be glad to inform you on your complaining behavior. lol @ pulling the "I already admitted to my ignorance/scrubiness therefore I am exempt from any ridicule/criticism of my acting like one" card. I'm explaining to you why you're getting the shit and flak you're getting and telling what you should do about it. Leave it to you to try to find some fault with it. I realize I'm being very argumentative as well, but not for the sake of it in itself, but to drive home a point. I'll repaste my main point of my last post in bold because it clearly needs reemphasizing. Put it on flash cards or write it on your wall if you must. You are clearly a scrub. Scrubs need to get to Training Mode, learn their combos, learn their fundamentals, read up on their character's guide, and actually gain some knowledge of the game and decent matchup experience before making threads debating the fairness of a character. Don't expect to get taken seriously without having done all that. Expect to be ridiculed and demeaned if you do, as happened here. That'll be all from me. This thread was doomed to be a crapshoot from the start and I'm rather dissapointed in how far it got and how much of a part I played in helping it get there. Only question that remains to be asked is when the clean up crew will get here. EDIT: My post on the 8th fucking page, Jesus Christ. Hopefully the last. One last note to Phoeniks though, if you want to demonstrate high-level Tager play, you're sure not going to get it with American vids. Mike Z, despite how much acclaim he gets, is prone to sloppy playing and various mistakes. In my opinion, only Galileo is demonstrating how devastating Tager can be at peak performance. He has tons of casual vids on GAMEacho. Look for the golden Tager.

Should've just let him eat the controller. Would've gotten the point across much more clearly and effectively than verbal abuse, which could have encouraged him to troll even harder. Inflicting bodily harm isn't the most tasteful thing, but neither is bad sportsmanship. =D Seriously though, next best option is to just get better than him and return the favor. Might also want to come up with an obnoxious victory dance you can use every round or match you win. It's best to be prepared.

Don't insult me. I read your OP. Your prevailing tone was one of complaint, ignorance, and general condescension and smugness, even if you claim otherwise. Claiming that the sky is red won't make it not blue. Why Phoeniks who seems otherwise sensible sides with you is beyond me. I don't feel the need to nurture your kind of mentality or behavior. My main point (which you so carefully avoided addressing) still stands - only scrubs consider Tager overpowered because Tager is particularly effective at punishing scrubby play. You are clearly a scrub. Scrubs need to get to Training Mode, learn their combos, learn their fundamentals, read up on their character's guide, and actually gain some knowledge of the game and decent matchup experience before making threads debating the fairness of a character. Don't expect to get taken seriously without having done all that. Expect to be ridiculed and demeaned if you do, as happened here.

Yeah, it's called practice. Get used to it. Seriously though, the only way you can build up muscle memory and get used to stick is to simply practice. One of the most important parts of learning stick is to find a comfortable grip. When it comes to learning combos, just hit Training Mode and don't leave until you've got it down (or are frustrated to the point of wanting to hurl your stick to the wall).

Acting like a smug bastard doesn't help your case either. Admitting your ignorance doesn't make you any less arrogant if you still act like you know more about the game than you do. To emphasize Isorropia's point, you should have gone directly to the Litchi matchup forums on advice against Tager instead of making a thread complaining about his "fairness". Making a thread complaining about Tager, the lowest tier character of CT and close-to-lowest in CS, and his supposed "overpoweredness" exposes how much of a scrub you are, because only scrubs complain about Tager being overpowered. As mentioned before, the only reason it appears like that is because Tager's strongest suit is punishing mistakes and sloppy, autopilot playing and scrubs are suspect to both. Mistakes you might get away with against other characters will get you raped against Tager. My advice? Stop sucking.

I think you might have gotten abortion punch (22C) confused with Ragna's Hell's Fang (214A). And yes, Ragnas like to jump out after ending blockstrings in 214A. You can either hope for them to jump so you can Collider them or you can IB the Hell's Fang and punish.

2A and 2C can both beat it if spaced and time correctly.

Real fucking talk. Lesson #0 of Life: Don't be a fucking retard. I suggest you learn it OP.

You've played countless people nline you say? Question is, were they any good? Vast majority of online players (at least on the match vids I see on YouTube; don't have a console myself) seem to suck hard and the minority that do know what they're doing (and by that I mean they know their combos and don't do anything especially retarded) are still only decent and make various mistakes. You tell me though, since all I know about online play is what I see on match vids and what other people say (negative things about). Do you have an arcade near where you live? Also, find a tournament if possible. A competitive environment sounds like it would do great for you. EDIT: I understood what he was saying in relation to sports. I simply didn't agree that the same concept applied to fighting games.

214B should be a free IB 360/720. You might be able to do a late backdash to dodge 6C and punish with Spark Volt. Maybe. Otherwise, just play it patient, slowly walk forward, look for an opening to escape. Be careful about jumping out because Hakumen can smack you in the face with j.C. Hakumens tend to be very jump happy. If you're confident in your yomi, a Psychic Collider into corner can be a real game changer. On the other hand, you can get heavily punished for that, so don't do it unless you're confident you can land it.

IB the 5C and 360A/720 him out of the 5D. If you can't IB 360/720 well (you should learn to though, only way you're going to get anywhere with Tager, especially against the uppertier), then simple IB the Hell's Fang and punish with whatever you can. Stupidly enough, I have problems with Ragnas' ending their blockstring with Hell's Fang when I really shouldn't. In my experience most Ragnas try to jump out to avoid the 360/720. Collider them if they do that. IB 5A->5B->3C->Gadget Finger is guaranteed and I've managed to it them with 2B after an IB on occasion. Not sure about 360/720 though. EDIT:Some other general tips against Ragna. This matchup still has the same dynamic as it did in CT, except this time around Raga does superior damage and has a much better risk/reward ratio. The only reliable way out of Ragna's pressure is to IB. Always watch out for mixups, especially Gauntlet Hades, which can lead to 4K plus a potential reset as well as the usual corner and 50 meter. Tager can no longer kill Ragna in 2-3 good combos and some resets/tick-throws and burst punish so he has to play a lot more carefully, maintain momentum, and make a lot less mistakes. Pressuring Ragna can be tricky. Tager has to respect Inferno Divider. Extended and predictable blockstrings become vulnerable to IB Inferno Divider. Trying to tag on an extra 5D/2D after a 5C will result in a Inferno Divider punish if your opponent is smart and has the presence of mind. Careless oki will make you eat a Divider. Even if you do manage to bait it out, Ragna almost always has the meter to make it safe. IB 2C or Collider might work if they go for air-to-ground pressure but I've never tried it myself. Ragna is also one of the few characters that Tager can reliably AA provided you space yourself correctly. Incorrect spacing and/or poor timing will result in a big fat CH crouching combo for Ragna, which is very, very ugly for you. Most important part of this matchup is not letting Ragna build momentum. If he does, then you could be dead pretty soon. IB like you're Galileo, look for openings, create openings, bait those DPs to make Ragna burn the meter, bait those bursts, land those resets, tick throws, and Yomi Colliders, make every bit of damage count, and stay the fuck away from Gadget Finger.

@smooshman What can I say, I'm awesome. Jokes aside though, I think Jin should have an easier time dealing with Hakumen's pressure than Hakumen with Jin's pressure. Hakumen's pressure seems reliant on frame traps and he doesn't have many damaging mixups. Jin on the other hand, has his variety of jump-cancellable moves and 6D. He has to contend with tk. Hotaru, IB 6D/2D, and Yukikaze though, but the latter two seem like rather risky options, long as Jin doesn't get too predictable. EDIT: @A.X.I.S. No. In my humble, largely ignorant opinion, that is.

Can't say I'm familiar with this matchup, but I assume the main problem is for Jin to actually get in and begin pressure. Even then, Jin doesn't have the greatest mixup and he can't do decent damage without meter and the corner. Hakumen on the other hand can probably do a decent job of keeping Jin out and can do big damage with just a little bit of meter.

Far as I know, that's the case with all DPs. Only way around it would be to RC and punish.