mAc Chaos

I still like to know how many games I've played. But we keep track of unimportant things all the time. Look at our accounts on Dustloop. It keeps track of our post counts.

Yeah it just stops you from getting hurt by it, it doesn't affect the defense part. Although countering projectiles is one of the ways Hakumen has of turning the tables, when you've got him locked down the entire time but throw out a projectile too close. I don't see what's wrong with being invincible during a counter activation; you shouldn't be punished for countering successfully, or it would be even riskier to try. I can see the side effects it has, but you need the invincibility. Even with those setups, like the kind Carl and Mu have (not sure about Litchi) you have ways to deal with the counter by slightly altering your timing.

Pretty soon his counters will heal the opponent.

If you run up to him trying to do mixup while he counters, you won't get hit, if you run up... and block instead.

His counters already got nerfed into the ground ages ago. ALLOW ME TO CHRONICLE CT: He did around 5k off his counters, and they were the quickest. CS1: He got a j.D buff, but his other counters took a proration hit. Average damage was 4-5k if you spent 4 stars, but otherwise a normal combo would do 3k. CS2: j.D buff removed, his counters got proration reduced AGAIN, however he gets a star when he lands a counter. (Actually, I forget if that was always the case.) Average damage is 2.5k. EX: One more round of damage reduction. Average damage is 2k, you can get 3k for 3 stars off 6D. Meanwhile, the punishment for a fuck up with your counter is still in the 3-5k range. What more do you want from us. Take my FIRST BORN

As if we were never low tier. CT and CS2. And CP.

Well, I'd rather nerf other aspects of the character than the counters. It sounds more like you just have a different opinion on his design. He's supposed to be a defense oriented character that gets zoned out, and every character can handle that. So, as far as being able to beat him correctly, everything is fine. You're not supposed to be able to have free reign when pressuring him; that's when he is supposed to have an advantage compared to everyone else. For characters who have setups like Mu and Lambda with their lasers and wheels, they don't need it against him in the first place since they're supposed to be zoning him out. Locking him down on top of it would just make an already unfavorable matchup even worse. No, the other player will just hop to the other side of the screen and wait for you to attack, or for the timer to run out. Or bait it. You will usually be spending the stars on attacking anyway.

I agree that it's easy to hit 2D and counter those things, but on the other hand, there's no reason that Lichi's oki setups should be getting preference over Hakumen's way to get out. It's fine if Haku can neutralize some aspect of her offense if she has other ways to handle the matchup, and she does. Same with other characters. The only way to deal with the issues you raised would be to remove frame 1 activation, or having him be invincible all the way through, and doing that would just ruin the counter itself. I don't think it would be worth basically removing his drive to make it a little more convenient in those situations. Although I guess making it blockable is another way, but that wouldn't stop Hakumen from being safe from the oki. Just would stop you from getting hit by the counter.

They just never got past "lol nerf 720" level when it comes to Hakumen.

Noo, you quoted it before I got my edit in. I don't give a shit about Extend Hakumen. You could make that argument about DPs too. It stops normal pressure and oki, and affects it just by having it in the first place. Except normal DPs are actually better since you can rapid out if it's baited and don't have to pick high or low, and can't get thrown. Sure, it affects how other characters have to play, but the same is true for everybody else dealing with other characters and the kinds of things they have. That's what makes a varied game with lots of different matchups.

I've been a fan of CT Hakumen since forever. dat S tier Anyway, I see the same people always complaining about his counters every BB release, even though they nerf it every time too. They give it the same "reworking" you've demanding each time. Just because you can't do the same oki you run on everyone else on him or the same pressure doesn't mean it's dumb. It just means you have to be more careful, but a lot of people's approach to nerfing things is "I don't like this because it makes me have to play better, nerf it plz." I'm kind of astonished people can say it's too good after getting nerfed 4 games in a row. People just don't understand anything about his counters. It's a legit complaint when a character's mechanics shut down a character so hard it turns into Tager v Tao, but not when it's 5-5 and each has their own advantages. And it's always been relatively even between those two characters.

lol litchi players are always salty as shit whenever hakumen comes up, keep qqing about that 5-5 matchup

Actually I meant the crush trigger appears at :54. Takes 2 stars.

Hm. Kind of like Jin's crossup j.D antics. Not sure how good that'll be. Maybe there'll be some more uses for it though. His crush trigger is in there too a little after it. Er wait, no, I meant before. At :54. Takes 2 stars.

AGITO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P69NoqT0Vz8&feature=player_detailpage#t=78s also the crush trigger or something else after it

I wonder how much damage forward throw > falling j.2C > 5C > Gurren > 3C would do. Or maybe throw > 5C > 623AA > falling j.2C > 5C > Gurren > 6C / other stuff

I don't even remember someones stats five seconds after I play them, why would I care. I don't even know my own stats lol

Haha, that's so true. That's how I even first heard of you. Across the other side of the country I heard of a Hakumen that beat an Arakune at a tournament in the grand finals by baiting a burst at the final moment. It was like a legend. :P

Overdrive stops timer though. :3

well played

no effort i dont think that means what you think it means lol might as well say that about any DP

wat

Ambiguous j.236D crossup was fine. It's better when characters all have neat stuff to use rather than everyone just getting nerfed into the ground to even everything out. At least that's my preference.

He's WC and I'm EC. lol Not gonna ever happen. I don't think Haku mirrors are that different than other matches. By that I mean, it's not something that's completely different from other fights you have, like Tao v Tao or something. Haku is basic so I don't think it's like I have any special anti Haku skill or something but just play the way I normally do. I used to hurl myself at and get beat down by other Hakus in CT all the time though. Slayer, Leonil, CactusGuy, FullAutoDeath, etc. Also CT had a lot of bullshit, but somehow it made it more fun and made me want to keep playing MORE. Stuff like Nu's doing 2C everywhere just made me more determined to win and made me keep playing. And that's not nostalgia since it's what was happening tonight. :P The salt sustains me. Also Tager was actually scary which made me remember it was 5.5 in his favor.

I don't really care what they do, I'll play him all the same. Doesn't mean it's not dumb.