toanenadiz

I meant the part of your post about doing the video. There is a greater chance for people to see it if it is in the Lambda general thread instead of a match-up thread. And what I meant by he has too many options can be explained using your example. There are basically 3 ways you can be hit by Jin's 2D. Either the ice blade appears behind you, it appears on top of you or it appears slightly in front of you. Depends on which where it appeared, your options are different. Behind you: You can IB the 2D and backdash the 5C. Alternatively, you can just dash in and CH 3C him before he does 2D. On top of you: You can normal block and backdash. Also depending where exactly where you are inside of it, you can IB the 2D and CH 2B him out of 5C. In front of you: Block and CH 5D/CH 5C(1) him. All this assumes he follows up with 5C, which he doesn't really have to since he has frame advantage and can use it to do what he feels like. And the issue with Jin is that his pressure is so varied, that even if you block 2D->5C->string, the string he uses could be vastly different each time and can't really be safely predict'd and punished. You really have to make intelligent guesses on where you want to escape and how. If you notice certain blockstrings your friend uses, you can post them here and we can help you figure out what to do against those strings. The best way to really figure out what Jin can do to evade our drives is to go into training mode, and use the dummy to test various things. The same with corner pressure. If Jin's pressure could be mapped out in a way like you want for the video, Jin wouldn't really have that great of pressure.

Lambda doesn't need to use 5D to stop 236C. Lambda's 3C can be used to beat it out on reaction easier. I understand why 236D can't be thrown out full screen but there isn't a reason why she wouldn't thrown out 214D, since Tsubaki can't really punish it full screen without yomi. Dash->barrier gets you closer but you lose a primer and Lambda can easily move into a better position for her. Jumping it gives Lambda access to her AA swords and lets her move unhindered on the ground, which is what she wants. What you are saying isn't really incorrect but your options wouldn't really scare the Lambda into stopping her from using it full screen. Now if you were charging full screen instead, that would probably stop her from using it. And Lambda can just dash forward and 5D to CH you out of your charge if you do it full screen and too predictably.

1) You can pretty much do anything in that time. He is in CH state the entire time until he lands(and he still has 5 frames of additional recovery once he lands) so he can't do anything during that time. You could have just barrier cancel'd your dash when you saw him ice car and punish it. 2) That is just a skill you have to work on. When using Lambda, you have to be able to move in ways which let you capitalize on any hits you get while being able to be safe from the opponents potential next actions at the same time. 3) At close range, 5A, 5B and 2B are better. They are significantly faster and have better recovery with more gatlings. At longer range, you can either use 3C, your drives or just move around to put yourself into a better situation. Lambda's 5C is slow with a 16 frame start-up, doesn't lead to enough damage to justify the risk(unless it is CH 5C(1) or with 50 meter) and has between 40 and 52 frames of recovery(depending on whether or not you are mashing 5C) and she is in CH state the entire time. You really want to avoid using it outside of punishing, combos or in blockstun. I don't think that is realistically possible. That video was for a very specific situation. There is no issues with positioning, frame advantage and things like that. Using your examples, Hazama has far too many possible movement options for you to be able to do a video like that in a reasonable amount of time. Not to count the many variations of his pressure or his ability to control the pace of the match. Similarly with Jin, there are many possible options at any point in the match and you have to just be able to properly react and know what you need to do. To be able to put all that in video form would be way too much to ask of the better Lambda. And your post would have been better put in the general Lambda thread so more people would have been able to see it and comment on it.

I would recommend using less 5C. Lambda's 5C is a pretty bad move to use at neutral or to poke out because it is so slow and has a really bad recovery. It is also bad for oki because it is easy to see and most characters can just tech and do their reversal. And work on hitconfirming. There were a few times when you would get a hit with 236D or 214D but you wouldn't even break 3K. Quick thing to note. Since you saw that he wasn't blocking your 236236D and was in the air above, knowing his tendency to ice car, you should have been prepared for it and punished him during the recovery of it. Speak for yourself. Most of the people I play have no issues with doing their long combos online.

1) You can IB the A version and because of his recovery time, he can't gain that much ground against you. I would jump over the B version and D him if he tries to approach after it. You can 5D him out of the C version for a CH combo but otherwise you can use the strategy for the B version. Of course all these are range dependent so vary them accordingly. 2) If you are afraid of using your normals to AA him after he double jumps, you can just move out of the way. 3) This depends on how he pressures. Your friend looked like he pressures by gatling into his moves that are plus on block so he can reset his pressure. Most of those moves have long start-up and you can react and either punish or backdash them to reset to neutral. It didn't look like your friend was forcing his way in. It looked more like your zoning was off and you were afraid of Jin getting in. Of course, I wasn't playing the match so I can't accurately tell. I guess we will have to disagree on this. I tend to see the Lambda make a mistake in their zoning which lets the Jin in, rather than the Jin somehow forcing his way in most of the time. With the rare exception of a random ice car, all the Jin followed the same basic strategy and the better player just won. And I don't have issues with doing any my combos online so I can't see where you are coming from when you are talking about the Jin having more tools. Also, the latest match-up chart has Jin vs Lambda in CS2 as an even match-up. Even if Lambda and Jin fought at SBO, it wouldn't really change what is in the match-up chart.

If you went to the next match in that last vid, you would see sivaxs beat stunedge. And my statement that the Jins weren't doing anything other characters can't do still stands. To me, it looked like the Jin were having a really hard time getting in and your previous statements made it seem like they were getting in for free. Rather than Jin having a good match-up against Lambda, it is more likely that your friend just has a better understanding of the match-up than you do. http://wiki.hardedge.org/index.php/Matcharchiv:_Jin_vs_Lambda%28BBCS2%29 There is a link to a bunch of Lambda-Jin matches. You'll find more matches where Lambda won.

Were we watching the same vids? Because Lambda won in the last one and in the other 2, Jin didn't do anything to get in that other characters(except Tager) couldn't also do. And if he double jumps, don't do 6D, do 2D instead. And if he is using ice car to avoid your 2Ds, you are being way too predictable with them. At the height where he can evade 214D in the air, ice car is extremely punishable by pretty much everything And I am pretty sure Jin vs Lambda is an even match-up, like it has been since CT. Not much has changed in the tools each character has against each other.

So, is there no way to stop Litchi from using 6B->236C to keep you away?

My Tager friend said he liked all of the changes except the one about removing 720C. But he figured the other changes make up for it. And he wants to ask why you only gave Tager a double jump and not an air dash also.

That isn't what I meant...Just like how 214D and 236D can't be used against a ground Tager, Lambda would lose more options if spark bolt had projectile invincibility at start-up. Lambda's would probably resort to a lot more running away(if you can believe it), which I would find less interesting. And you can't really throw around objectively in the same sentence as interesting because it is an opinion.

What is the point of number 17?

I can see where you are coming from. I'm just not going to like it. And cutting down Lambda's options isn't going to make the match-up anymore interesting.

Number 12 would make the Lambda match-up a lot more boring.

That isn't always true. If you 360 someone in frames 6 to 8 of stagger recovery, it will be green and unbreakable.

Run it on a non-HDTV and you would see that those options don't exist.

How do you think the Litchi vs Lambda match-up has changed from CS1 to CS2?

First thing to note, Rachel gets out of 236D oki for free with her tech+wind technique. You really need to watch out for this technique as it will also evade any meaty sword you use for oki. You really need to be around mid screen against Rachel. You need to stop Rachel from summoning stuff. And at this range, you can stop the wind air dash+attack maneuver Rachel does with Lambda's 6A easily. Remember to not sit on top of the poles. And Rachel's 5B and 2B are projectiles now so they will cancel out other projectiles they hit(like 214D). The best option against Rachel's pressure is to just never be in it. Run like the little bitch our character is designed to be. But if you end up blocking, pay attention to wind because it is easier to react to that than it is to Rachel's jA. You can IB and backdash if she does any normal->236A. Of course, this fails if she winds the lobelia. Rachel has really good pressure against Lambda, so you usually have to take risks to get out. And blocking a high level Tempest Dahlia gives Rachel an invisible mix-up. Do all you can to avoid blocking it on the ground.

Valk's 236A is actually -2. And because of how easy it is to IB, he should normally be at -5 after it. You can throw him if he tries to do any normal move after it. However, most good Valks will wolf cancel and I've found 5A works pretty well to stop the subsequent wolf rush down.

I was delaying my tech because I didn't want to get thrown. And I think you were barrier blocking against me too much. You entered danger mode twice and the 2nd time, you had 4 full primers.

If you know he is going to throw out an ice sword from full screen, I don't see how doing dash 5D to CH him is dangerous. You shouldn't auto pilot it but you should do it occasionally so he doesn't get to throw them out for free all the time. You just need make sure he is actually on the ground doing something after you dash. If he is in the air, use an AA instead. You shouldn't really be that scared to fight within Lambda's 5D range anyway. He cannot cancel ice car into anything, barring an RC. And I haven't actually seen many Jins use A ice car in a blockstring so I can't really answer that. If you know it is the A version, you can just block and punish, but if you are unsure which version it is, you are better off just blocking it.

Jin can't cancel ice car into his DP. If he is doing that, then you aren't punishing ice car. Be faster with the dash 2A. Jin's 3C has never been a problem for me but I would assume Lambda's 5D and 3C should easily take care of that. And if he is spamming ice swords, you can just dash forward and CH 5D him out of the start-up. Or conversely, you can IAD and j2DD to punish the recovery of an ice sword.

I know your pain

Correct. But you can learn stuff faster from frame data.

You have to be careful about this. Lambda can frame trap you after you IB her 3C by doing her 214A(gravity well) to try and get a fatal counter.

If the Bang player is getting cross-over happy with doing blockstrings and jump-cancelling it to a j4B, you can jump and air throw him out of it. Be mindful of Bang trying to drive his way out of 236D oki. Punish him accordingly so he starts respecting our oki. And I would recommend bursting to prevent Bang from getting 4 seals if you have to. Unless some great Lambda has come up with a plan on dealing with it.