WUT

http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/tech/id.html Should explain the basic idea. It really should go into detail on the double jump version of Impossible Dusts, as that's the one that will usually yield the most damage (certain characters like Robo-Ky and Slayer don't really need it). 5D, homing jump cancel j.S, dj (go to neutral, don't hold 7/8/9) dj.S/dj.HS, land, combo. If you've done it correctly you'll do an impossible dust.

5K(8)-6S works just fine as well. Personally, I do 6S, hit 8 the moment 6S connects, then SJ with 19. Pretty consistent with that.

I thought you only subtracted a frame from the total recovery if the move in question connected, since it takes just 1F for a move to connect and the rest of the active frames are turned into recovery. That just makes my math all silly. That's such an awkward way to note frame data. I understand the practical use but...how contrived. EDIT: Along with this newfound knowledge, I've learned that if you do a 2D xx Lvl1 GB whiff, you have time to throw a 5S© and recover before your opponent gets up. Lol throw baits.

The only issue I have with this is that you can simply gatling to 5H and CC for +5 and +20 on their guard bar versus RI's +3 and +10 guard bar. The window for punishing is smaller, and you can even take that further by doing 2P, 5K, 5HS, effectively giving them a 2 frame window to do anything. The CH opportunity isn't as strong, but the momentum you maintain is much stronger.

So you're suggesting 2P/5P whiff, Lvl1 RI? They have 18 frames to throw you if you're that close, on top of being able to option select and hit you with a 5HS if your hitbox may happen to be too far away to be thrown. 2P xx Lvl1 RI offers a better scenario, but that's still 7 frames where they can interrupt your offense.

Minor nitpick: 2P, 5P leaves you at -2. Same situation applies, except that a 5K cannot be interrupted without a throw or invincibility. 2P is a Lvl 1 move = 9F of guard stun. 5P total animation = 11F.

I was j/k about the liar part. Silly text not accounting for emphasis in words. The frame data was just me trying to support my claim that meaty GB doesn't cross up thanks to whatever weird wake-up mechanic GG uses to guard against such events, which was used as a point to showcase that a meaty j.K won't cross-up either. I wasn't questioning whether HOS players would be able to account for such intricate (and rather pointless, really) specifics in the frame data. If 5K, 2D Lvl1 GB, Lvl1 GB crosses up for you then stick with it. If it works then don't fix it. As for the other question: if I'm spending 50% on 2HS RC I want it to be worth it. I'll generally always go for 5S©, 5HS xx Lvl2 RI at the very least. If I've got 75% 2HS RC Fafnir is great damage off a high if you can convert it to a DL, or I will opt for a dashing 5S© xx Lvl1 BHB, Fafnir if I need to push them closer to the corner to DL. Less damage, but it's more flexible. Although 2HS RC is a very nice setup for the 5HS xx Lvl2 BRP, AC FRC dash buffered 2HS, 5K link trick. You're still spending 75% in that instance, and the chances of them eating two 2HS, one of which is easily telegraphed, are slim.

Which is why you don't approach Eddie from full screen when he's able to summon the shadow. J.K loses to j.P unless at absolute max range and he has to throw out 2H early; he can't use it as a reaction AA. 6P loses as AA and Nobiru is just...nobiru. I just don't see why it's that bad for HOS. The lack of range hurts, as always, but Eddie isn't that efficient at zoning. He puts HOS in the same situations he puts everyone else in: stop them from getting away, mix them up, unblockable, win game.

Make a liar out of me why don't you? I realized the Lvl1 GB FRC GB did cross up after posting it. That was a bad example, I suppose. I did however look at the wake up timings for knockdowns and most seem to center around 32-41 frames (excluding ABA, Robo-Ky and HOS, but Robo-Ky/HOS probably reflect the characters they're based upon). Since GB has 44F of total recovery, you're looking at 67F minimum to perform Lvl1 GB, Lvl1 GB. FRC'ing puts it at 56F minimum, still above the threshold. Of course this isn't taking into consideration the amount of time it takes to actually reach knockdown state via 2D, as I would assume that closes the gap that I'm unable to account for. The addition of 16F (assumption, seeing as you can CC 2D and link a 5K) might make up this difference.

Great job Ogawa. 7:3 ED v. OS? I just don't see it.

Yeah, and the 2D xx Lvl1 GB, Lvl1 GB cross-up works because it doesn't hit on the first non-invincible frame. If you do 5K, 2D xx Lvl1 GB FRC Lvl1 GB it will not cross-up, even though it's the same positioning.

Probably just not used to the rate at which you fall after the FRC. You can still double jump or air dash as long as you have your air movement options; if you have one you have the other (unless you're doing Roger Get after a super jump, at which point you can't double jump without a Jump Install). I feel the same way with HOS' air Action Charge FRC; he descends so fast that double jumping out of it feels weird.

There's a hitbox on the knee only. That's why getting the move to actually cross-up is such a pain: you have to be ridiculously deep for it to hit. The other problem is that, due to GG's wakeup cross-up guard protection thingamajig (you cannot cross someone up 1F after wakeup invincibility ends unless you use a move that knocks the opponent down backwards, mostly certain air throws. This is the same reason a meaty GB doesn't cross up unless they FD as soon as possible), j.K takes considerable amounts of timing to even successfully register as a cross-up rather than just a meaty that can be guarded standing in either direction. That being said, there are setups for it, such as the ones I posted, but the damage output usually isn't worth the effort unless you spend considerable amounts of Charge + Tension. Lvl2 Charge + 25% Tension for ~170-180 damage is rather mediocre, even if it is off a jumping cross-up.

On Testament: 5D jc j.HS, jc j.HS, land... - j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D, land, j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP (168) - Fafnir, j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP (181) - Fafnir, j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D, land, dashing j.P, j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP (192) - Fafnir, dashing j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D, land, j.HS, j.D djc dj.HS, dj.D xx Lvl2 BRP (197) Might be worth it. The last combo is rather hard to do timing-wise, seeing as you have to hit the Fafnir while Testament is still higher up in order to land a dashing j.HS. Most of it's corner only, as well...

While I'm at it I guess I should just post a few some more oki tricks I've been messing with: Gatling to 2D... - xx CC, Lvl1 GB (you recover before them for reversal/throw bait fun times ). - xx Lvl1 GB, AC FRC, jump toward opponent, j.K (cross-up. Works on the fatties, Pot, Johnny, Testament). - xx CC, run them to ALMOST the corner, dash jump j.K (crosses up just like a dashing Lvl3 BRP in the same situation, you just have to be a little closer to the corner). My personal favorite is the almost corner j.K. Following up with a 5K xx Lvl2 BHB, Fafnir, dashing 2S, 5HS SJ IAD j.P, j.HS xx Lvl# SV yields ~180 damage. Also, dunno if this is old news or not, but Fafnir will link after a Lvl2 BHB even without the staggering hit (IE near max range Lvl2 BHB). This can still lead to a dashing 2S, 5HS SJ IAD combo on certain characters.

FR does the same thing, and it's closer (meaning cheaper). Cash prize doesn't concern me because I never win anyhow. I just go for the casuals, in all honesty. Can't get better without travelling. Not that I think I'd do very well at SBO, but a free plane ticket and a week watching/playing serious competition? That's so worth it.

I've never found Evo to be worth the trip. The only real traveling plans I have at the moment are for Arcade UFO's SBO qualifier.

Now you're just arguing for the sake of argument. And the low invincibility is irrelevant? If it allows for a launch because they poked low and couldn't interrupt it, along with the fact that it launches on hit or CH, then it has more than one use. If Fafnir wasn't low invincible and a low hit itself it wouldn't be nearly as amazing as it is. Just because you use it only for a launch doesn't mean it can't be used for something else. There's also the fact that you may not always have 25%, and 2HS isn't low invincible at startup. BRP "works" because it's a high AND it's low invincible; two properties that give it different uses for different situations. +22F = 5D they can't poke out of/backdash, 2HS they HAVE to backdash or invincible to punish. Lvl2 pulls them right into you for other mix-up shenanigans, whereas they can escape after guarding a Lvl1 GB because you can't reach them in time. Even Fafnir and 5S(f) can't stop them from escaping after a Lvl1 GB. You lose control if you opponent guards a 2D xx Lvl1 GB, Lvl1 GB setup unless you FRC or AC FRC, simple as that.

I'm a big fan of gb ac frc lv1 gb myself, for the same reason gb ac frc lv2 gb is nice: they see ac and want to punish. Not spending Charge in that situation is great as well, seeing as if they guard the second gb you can AC it and pretty much have lv3 from a forced guard. Rather tasty. Yeah, aside from the potential free AC, at which point you're only spending 20% Charge, a decent trade. Which is exactly why I wanted to do it. Midscreen oki tends to be easy to react to. The extra guard stun and awkward situation creates new opportunities. 4F of jump startup. If you 1F jump you're in the same position as 6K. EDIT: The saddest of sadfaces: You can't get +32 on guard. 50F (total recovery) - 23 (startup) - 17 (active frames for one hit + pause in between + 1 frame for the second hit connecting) = 10F, added to the +12 it gets already = +22F max, +18 if IB'd. All that deliciousness is ruined. 5D is still safe, and 2HS has a 1F window to invincible/backdash out (can't be thrown by then). Knew that math was too good to be true. EDIT2: reaVer: Who said moves were reserved for only one use? Is Fafnir simply your low option, or is it your low option/mid-range counterpoke with low invincibility that deals great damage? Is Lvl2 BRP just a high, or is it a high that is foot invincible and then airborne, along with knockdown potential? GB can be used for a variety of things (AA, oki, combos); it doesn't have to have only one application.

I normally don't like spending Charge on oki either, as I said. However, my midscreen oki is really lacking against people that regularly play HOS. Cross-up GB just doesn't work very well once people are used to it, nor does 2D xx Lvl1 GB, high/low. So I had to throw in a curve ball that just so happens to play out rather nicely. I've used it against a few guys I casual with, where it worked well enough. And I've messed around with the set up in training mode, fleshing out some of the finer points. All in all I think it's really viable, especially considering people who don't play against HOS often will be in for a real treat ("damn there's THAT much guard stun?") The only situation I'm on the fence over is the AC after Lvl2 GB. While I think that's the scenario most likely to work out in your favor, seeing as AC = oh snap time to punish, the window for screwing up is too small. If they IB your Lvl2 GB then you can only get +28F at max, meaning they have a 5F window to throw you in that same situation, assuming optimum conditions. That's not cool.

I lol'd. I've been trying to think of a decent use for Lvl2 GB for the longest time. 2D xx Lvl1 GB AC FRC Lvl2 GB was just too expensive for my tastes.

I'll explain the premise. The oki setup is a midscreen gatling string into 2D xx CC, wait a few frames, Lvl2 GB. If I'm doing the math correctly and you hit the second pillar of flame on the last active frame, you can have up to +32 frame advantage, meaning a 5D/2HS is completely safe. Even another GB is completely safe, but won't cross up unless they try to FD (they're still in guard stun, unless you wait, but you risk being thrown at that point). The other interesting part is that if you AC the Lvl2 GB as soon as possible (again, assuming my math is correct), you will be at neutral ground, assuming max frame advantage (can AC 2F after second pillar is active, AC is 30F). This, coupled with the fact that Lvl2 GB sucks them into you, can lead to a decent throw bait setup with 6K (if the math is correct they have 1F to throw you before you can 6K, but honestly, who is used to the guard stun of a Lvl2 GB?). Yet ANOTHER application is corner oki. A 2D xx CC, Lvl2 GB actually pulls them OUT of the corner. I've been trying to dabble with a cross-up j.K at this point (jumping back after the Lvl2 GB recovery ends), but the guard stun sorta ruins that. You can still force a fuzzy guard if you do it right, however. This is on top of all the perks previously mentioned midscreen. Problems with this setup are the Charge required (although you spend 25% and Charge on a 2D XX Lvl1 GB, AC FRC Lvl2 GB mixup, which I see regularly), and the potential fail if my math is wrong. The midscreen Lvl2 GB won't cross-up unless they FD it to begin with, and the timing involved in hitting the Lvl2 GB late but not too late(meaning not OTG'ing yet not whiffing completely on their wakeup) isn't consistent; you have to play with it to get a feel for it.

I've been tinkering around with a few new oki setups. It's all theory fighter for the moment until I can play a few games vs. people I don't casual with to see how viable they are. Needless to say, the potential is amazing. On that note: anyone trying or seeing anything new lately?

Where's the tensionless semi-midscreen HS Fuujin, K follow-up, 5P xx On combos? Or the midscreen launch into 5S xx S Fuujin, FB Rin, dashing HS Fuujin combos? Or the corner combo ender 5K, 5S jc j.D xx Orb? So many options. It's ridiculous.

Or CH 6S~HSS_7, dashing j.P~j.2S~roll.2S~jc.S~j.2S~roll.S. Thank you rolling for extended BnB. fixed =P EDIT: You and your homo combo notation. <3