Tari

Notes: - Santa (and pretty much every other move in the game) only has one on-hit effect. In this case, it's a light stun. If an opponent is airborne, they get an airborne light stun animation. If they're grounded, they get the grounded light stun animation (ie: kneeling). - None of the grenade tosses cause Zaku Kai to vernier unless you're off-angle, so I'm a bit confused by what your grenade descriptions are saying? - Out-of-angle MG > Grenade is very important to know about. May be good to mention it under the MG section as well? It's possible to use this turn-around fast-fall even without grenade ammo. - 4/6B can be cancelled into a follow-up attack with A (ie: 4/6B->A). It's pretty fast and blows the enemy away. - Throwing a grenade and then immediately inputting BC causes the grenade to detonate as early as possible. This can easily cause it to blow up on Zaku Kai himself, which is handy in the case of melee approaches. - Grenades can be used to stall in the sky almost indefinitely, at the cost of dealing severe damage to yourself over time (ie: flying straight up and using 2B > detonate, getting hit by your grenade, teching, and then repeating). - Santa is arguably his best option for stalling in the sky briefly, because of its properties. It comes out fast, can absorb some hits, and Zaku Kai recovers immediately after the pull animation, which allows him to block anything that makes it past the santa (and if nothing makes it past, he can just choose to fall).

I don't remember it consuming ammo in vanilla, but it doesn't in this game afaik.

If I'm not mistaken, "left" in that case is Google shortening the translation from "to leave alone". Her BC, if left alone on hit, will eventually do a followup attack on its own. It takes a while, though, and you're probably better off just cancelling into the gerobi or sword stabs if you're going to do that.

Pretty much the only thing I can think of that makes sense. Soniti's post is the 24th post on page 52 for me. Seems pretty randomly designed, but I guess there's not much to do. At least it's only on my end. Thanks for the help clearing that up, you guys, sorry for the brief tangent.

All of the patch notes can be found here: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=BlazBlue:_Chrono_Phantasma_1.10_patch_notes Rachel is mostly unchanged. The backdash took a bit of a nerf, as did lotus P1, speed, and startup. The negative penalty resistance is a nerf, but I don't think any of us are too concerned about that. The rest of it is pretty much buffs or completely unimportant, though the pumpkin activation timing seems to be messing up oki combos. edit: I only see 51 pages for this thread when viewing it from the Rachel forum, but the thread actually has 52 pages. Does anyone else have this issue? Need to know if it's on my end or if it's a board limitation.

Does it make the normal combo route stable on Bang, etc.? I honestly can't remember what the 6A > 5A > 6A path was for, but I feel like it had a legitimate use. :/

Wasn't it for height correction if the 5CC wallstuck the opponent too low? I may be wrong, though.

Hence why I said "on everything," haha. Since it's not something you have to actively turn on after you burst, I consider it a passive effect gained by entering awakening with that suit, but I suppose it can be argued the other way, too. Probably should've just been more clear when I was writing. Thanks for actually saying what it's called, by the way. Couldn't remember "bio-sensor" for the life of me. :| Is it worth comboing into her super, do you guys know? It seems sorta measly when compared to Zeta and ZZ's giant purple swords of death, haha.

Only glanced at the video, but the majority of it seems to just be about the damage nerfs, reload nerfs, less boost, less health, and shorter red lock. @cosmic: I'm assuming he's talking about the passive super-armor on everything that Zeta and Double Zeta normally get when they're bursted. Roux does not get that passive.

@Z: While you can argue that Assault Cheridum is better suited to your playstyle and team comp, as well as your partner's playstyle, I think it needs to be pointed out that Cheridum generally benefits from Blast burst in most situations far more than he does from Assault burst. The point I want to make is that every player can choose to use a burst type for their suit if they feel like it better suits their playstyle. They should obviously be comfortable with the suit itself first and foremost, but choosing what burst to use and which benefits you care about more boils down to player preference. There is a trend for each suit (and the game as a whole) to veer towards a specific burst type, but the ultimate choice lies with the player and their playstyle. Assault Cheridum is perfectly fine if that's what you want to play, and he gains a different set of benefits compared to using Blast burst, but Assault is not the only way to play Cheridum, and it's not the way I'd even vaguely suggest a beginner player to try the suit. This discussion about Cheridum is becoming ridiculously specific, so I'd like to leave it at that if possible. I suggest continuing that discussion in the Cheridum thread.

AutomaticCat was playing Assault on Gunner because we were trying a lot of new things out, including having a very aggressive, close-range Gunner. We wanted to see how effective it would be to have a Gunner that half-bursted as much as possible in as offensive a position as possible. Additionally, while she does get the option to step out of her main and summons and whatnot (pretty annoying), she still verniers whenever she shoots anything, so she doesn't enjoy quite the same benefits from the on-angle stepping that other ranged suits do, who can choose when they want to vernier and when they want to simply fall while shooting. Since her main is so powerful, though, and it refills so fast in Blast, she remains very, very potent in Blast burst. Assault burst is also more familiar for long-time Gunner players who enjoy throwing her burst attack out, because she had the unique quality in EXVS vanilla of not losing her boost after using her burst attack. This is only true if she plays in Assault burst, now, same as any other suit. Since she can combo her burst attack into her main, it can be argued that Assault is safer for that purpose. Gunner is one of the odd ranged suits you'll actually see a pretty good number of people play in Assault burst.

I thought there was an adjustment to j.A as a starter, but in retrospect, it's already an S starter, so I suppose we can just test it. Somehow wasn't thinking very clearly, sorry about that. Against some characters, you can do this: 2A > 5B > jc j.B > j.C2D > 6A > 4B > (delay) 236A > 5CC > 3C > frog oki It's pretty weird, though. In any case, I think there are variations that should work even with the j.B. You could always just omit the 5CC and get a stable combo that way, but that loses you wind regen and damage, as I mentioned earlier. Need to go play around some with this.

Step cancelling moves that cannot normally be step cancelled is very strong. Using God as an example, since I play that suit, you have to realize that under normal circumstances, he is limited to boost cancelling all of his ranged options: tenkyoken, fire pillar, and god slash (though this can be cancelled directly into melee). In Blast, he can step cancel every single one of those. It's highly annoying for the opponent to deal with it, and it becomes virtually impossible to melee God Gundam when he's bursted with Blast active. Having said that, God Gundam can be played with Assault burst. The speed gain and damage buff are very noticeable on him, so if a player is very sure they're going to land their hits and they're more focused on just dealing damage (or being silly with burst attacks -cough-), Assault burst is more than fine. I'd generally recommend Blast on him, though. It's more advantageous in almost every way. I like this quote, haha.

I believe this thread will be moved into the general section, so discussion of bursts for any type of suit should preferably continue in this thread. Should wait on Brett to really decide, though, I suppose.

Guys, while it's great that you're enjoying talking to each other, this thread was for discussing burst types, not specific suits or why someone joined the forum. Just pointing this out before it gets too out of hand.

I don't know if you can really call it a glitch, but yes, 5B got buffed in the patch. The hurtbox got reduced and the hitbox got increased.

I'm assuming you can still get a pole out, but it would lessen the wind gain and damage. Not sure how worthwhile it is. Wish we could sit down and test it ourselves, hah.

@Z: While it's true that a 2.5k being overcosted in a 2.5/3k comp will usually manage to get a full burst after being hit once, this is only true if the 2.5k hasn't used a half burst, has done some damage (or blocked enough), and isn't being hit by a single move that will kill them instantly. It's typically preferable to use a burst defensively when you're not already being hit. While Blast does still 'only' provide 80% boost at a full bar, it's more than enough to escape. The extended trans-am time on Cherudim and increased boost efficiency make it pretty pointless to chase him for the duration that his burst is active. There are a multitude of other benefits Cherudim gets from Blast, which burger mentions below. In any case, it's not necessary to choose Assault burst just because you want to defensive burst with less penalty. Instead, bursts should be used in such a fashion that you avoid having to worry about the penalty in the first place. Choosing a burst type for a suit should be more about how it benefits the suit or how it benefits the player specifically, rather than how good it is to use it when you get hit.

You can ghetto amekyan the 00 assist with his sub. It's pretty half-baked, though, and it only works if you're already moving downwards (since the sub carries your previous momentum) and if you cancel into sub immediately. Dunno if that's what you saw mentioned, but it's all I can think of.

If I recall correctly, the answer is yes.

Whiff combos involve hitting the opponent, then boosting/stepping/etc. in such a way that your melee followup will miss on its first swing, but pick the opponent back up on the next few hits. This is generally done in order to conserve down value and extend combos for more damage. The examples I can think of off the top of my head are Xenon and Unicorn, since I was just messing with those earlier today. Xenon's whiff combo involves hitting the opponent upwards, then positioning himself below the opponent in green lock before starting his melee. The first swing misses because he's in green lock, but the opponent falls back into the second swing. Unicorn's whiff combo is an NT-D combo, and involves knocking the opponent up with his boost-dash melee, then back stepping out of range for his 6B followup. Because he backsteps, the first swing of 6B misses, but the second swing (6BB) has forward momentum and carries him far enough to hit the opponent again. While both of those examples involve knocking the opponent away, it's not a requirement for whiff combos. God Gundam can do one by just backstepping and cancelling into his followup melee immediately after the backstep, since it has minimum forward movement and won't connect on the first swing after a backstep. Not sure I explained it very well, so sorry if it's confusing.

Just spent some time figuring this out myself, so I figured I'd explain it for anyone interested. It's fairly straightforward, and it's less complicated than ASW games (no P1 or SMP), but there are some rules that have to be followed that I don't believe are present in other games. This is more or less just for entertainment(?), as I don't think there's much point to doing these sorts of calculations unless you're really bored (like I was). NotesThere are only two important move values to pay attention to when calculating damage: Damage - the amount of damage any move does in 1 hit.Proration - this is the percentage of damage taken from any subsequent move in a combo. Proration in this game is additive, not multiplicative.~There are two important rules to follow when calculating damage (these rules are applied to each hit in a combo): All damage values are rounded up to the closest whole number. This means that 21.1 is rounded to 22, not 21.Proration cannot cause combo damage to fall below 10%. The only time that damage can fall to 0 is when the 350 damage cap kicks in (see other info).~Other Info: When calculating for awakening damage, multiply each move's damage values by the awakening bonus and round immediately. (see example 3)Combos that go over 350 damage incur a damage penalty automatically. All damage beyond 350 is reduced to 1/5th of its value. If damage is reduced to less than 1, the hit will do 0 damage.Notably, for the 350 damage rule, if a move causes the combo damage to go over 350, whatever damage goes beyond 350 immediately is hit by the 350 damage rule. (ie: if a move does 20 damage and causes the combo to go from 340 to 360 damage, the 10 damage beyond 350 is immediately reduced to 2, so the combo only does 352 damage)Direct cancelling main->sub (and other such cancels) applies a cancel proration. Melee cancels and the such are generally exempt from this. This proration value is unique to each cancel, I believe, though I'm not 100% sure about this.The JP wiki will list proration in positives or negatives. Positive numbers (ie: 65%) are the percentage of damage the next move will do. Negative numbers (ie: -35%) are the percentage of damage the next move will lose. They're the same number, just represented two different ways (ie: 100 - 35 = 65).The JP wiki lists both total damage values (累計威力) and individual damage values (単発威力) for each hit in a melee move. You'll want the individual numbers.Guts and awakening will change your damage values. Additionally, if a player blocks and then gets hit by a combo immediately afterwards, the combo will only deal 90% damage (it takes -10% in proration immediately).Down values cause enemies to yellow out when a combo applies 5 or more points of down value to the enemy.Awakening causes a 10% reduction in down value (rounded up to the closest hundredth decimal) for every hit, so combos can be extended slightly.Moves that hit simultaneously are calculated simultaneously. That is to say, they don't apply proration to each other. This allows certain impractical setups to breach the 350 damage rule, as it's possible to perform a 'combo' in which no single move causes damage to pass the 350 barrier (since all the moves hit at the same time, only the combined damage passes 350).. Since I don't think I did a particularly great job of explaining it with the above bullets, here're some examples, listed in order of complexity and annoyance. Example 1 - Unicorn Gundam ZundaA zunda from Unicorn (BR >> BR >> BR) does 186 damage. Unicorn Gundam's BR does 95 damage, and has a proration value of 65%. This can be calculated as such: 95 + (95 * 0.65) + (95 * (0.3)) = 95 + 61.75 + 28.5 => 95 + 62 + 29 = 186 damage total The first BR has no proration applied to it, so it does the full 95 damage. It applies 65% proration to all moves that follow it, however. The second BR takes a 35% hit to its damage (100% - 35% = 65%), so it deals 95 * 0.65 = 61.75 damage. 61.75 is truncated to 61.7, and then rounded up to 62. It then applies another 65% proration to all moves that follow it. The third BR takes a (35+35)% hit to its damage (100% - 35% - 35% = 30%), so it deals 95 * 0.3 = 28.5 damage. 28.5 is rounded up to 29. The final damage is therefore 95 (BR 1) + 62 (BR 2) + 29 (BR 3) = 186 damage total. Example 2 - Unicorn Gundam Melee ComboUnicorn Gundam's melee combo of 6B > 6B > 6B does 159 damage. 6B does 68 damage on its first hit and applies 79% proration to each move after it in a combo. However, these are total values. 6B's first hit is a 3-hit move, and needs to be calculated with its individual numbers instead. 6B(1) does 24 damage and applies -7% proration to each hit after it in a combo. As 6B hits 3 times, the calculation comes out to such: 24 + (24 * 0.93) + (24 * 0.86) = 24 + 22.32 + 20.64 => 24 + 23 + 21 = 68 damage The full combo therefore is calculated as such: 24 + (24 * 0.93) + (24 * 0.86) + (24 * 0.79) + (24 * 0.72) + (24 * 0.65) + (24 * .58) + (24 * 0.51) + (24 * 0.44) = 24 + 22.32 + 20.64 + 18.96 + 17.28 + 15.6 + 13.92 + 12.24 + 10.56 => 24 + 23 + 21 + 19 + 18 + 16 + 14 + 13 + 11 = 159 damage total Example 3 - Blast Burst Awakened Extreme Xenon Melee ComboWhile awakened, Xenon can do a massive number of hits in his form 2 melee combos, and deal insane damage. We'll be looking at this combo here: 6B(1) -> Leos Knuckle (11 hits) > 6B(1) -> Leos Knuckle (11 hits) > 6B(1) -> Leos Knuckle. In Blast Burst, it does a good 350 damage. In Assault Burst, it barely does any more damage (approx. 352 damage), and has a good 11 hits that do 0 damage because they're over the 350 damage barrier (the final hit still does 2 damage, though). This is the relevant information for this combo: 6B: 75 damage, -20% proration Leos Knuckle (initial hit): 70 damage, -20% proration Leos Knuckle (per hit, hits 2-11): 13 damage(?), -1% proration Leos Knuckle (final hit): 90 damage, instant down However, since we're in Blast Burst, Xenon does an extra 5% damage per hit, giving him the following numbers: 6B: 78.75 -> 79 damage Leos Knuckle (initial hit): 73.5 -> 74 damage Leos Knuckle (per hit, hits 2-11): 13.65 -> 14 damage Leos Knuckle (final hit): 94.5 -> 95 damage Note that we rounded the numbers immediately. This combo can be calculated as such: 79 + (74 * 0.8) + (14 * (0.6 + 0.59 + 0.58 + ... + 0.51)) + (79 * 0.5) + (74 * 0.3) + (14 * 0.1 (ten times)) + (79 * 0.1) + (74 * 0.1) + (14 * 0.1 (ten times)) + (95 * 0.1) = 79 + 59.2 + 8.4 + 8.26 + 8.12 + 7.98 + 7.84 + 7.7 + 7.56 + 7.42 + 7.28 + 7.14 + 39.5 + 22.2 + 1.4 (ten times) + 7.9 + 7.4 + 1.4 (ten times) + 9.5 => 79 + 60 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 40 + 23 + (2 * 10) + 8 + 8 + (2 * 10) + 10 = 351(!) damage total At this point, there are two things to point out, both indicated in red. The first are the numbers in red. Those indicate that we've hit the minimum proration value, and all proration from that point forward is valued at 0.1. The second is that the final calculated value was 351, which is notably not the 350 we actually get in game. This is because the final 1 damage is immediately hit with the 1/5th reduction from the 350 cap. In practice, it becomes considered as such: 350 + (1 * 0.2). Because the (1 * 0.2) evaluates to less than 1, however, it simply gets reduced to 0 damage. As such, the true final calculation is this: 79 + 60 + 9 + 9 + 9 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 8 + 40 + 23 + (2 * 10) + 8 + 8 + (2 * 10) + (9 + 0) = 350 damage total

The combo listed is actually completely impossible, by the way. The normal combo applies 5.8 down value, and even with the awakening reduction on down value, it would still apply 5.22 down value. I went back and checked what the player actually did, and it's slightly different from what I was calculating. The combo in the video was this: CC8B > (6B)BB > CC8B > (6B)B(4th hit only)B > CC8B(1 hit). That combo does 312 damage, so it's actually worse than doing the normal combo. It does knock the opponent sky high, though.

The combo is listed on the JP wiki, though the listed combo is a non-awakening variation. It still does 319 damage outside of activate, and it's literally the same combo without the final BD melee. I'm pretty surprised you did 350 damage, because the calculated damage for this combo caps out at around 330 damage in activate with blast burst (Unicorn gets no offense boost in blast). Were you low health at all? In any case, assuming you have a real 350 damage combo, you won't be looking at much damage beyond 350 if you achieve it, because the game applies a soft-cap to damage at 350. For what it's worth, the final calculations for the combo come out to this (approximately): 86 76 * .85 = 64.6 90 * .69 = 62.1 86 * .57 = 49 76 * .42 = 31.9 90 * .26 = 23.4 86 + 65 + 63 + 49 + 32 + 24 = 319 damage - non-awakened combo value 86 * .14 = 12 319 + 12 = 331 damage - awakened, blast burst, extra CC8B combo value edit: went back and did the proper calculation: combo (nt-d): cc8b > (6b)bb >> cc8b > (6b)bb >> cc8b total damage in B burst: 328

Cut Resistance - How hard it is for an opponent to hit you out of a combo (ie: cut you out of a combo). For example, Quanta boost-dash melee has fairly good cut resistance, largely because he makes huge movements while doing it. Quanta's 8B(1) > 8B(1) > 8B(1) combo has pretty mediocre cut resistance, because he doesn't really move while doing it, even though it's fast. Down Value - When a suit accrues 5 points or more of down value, they yellow out, become invulnerable, and fall to the ground. Each move applies a set amount of down value points on hit. BRs, for example, typically have a down value of 2.0, which means that 3 BRs (a zunda) would apply a 6.0 down value total and would therefore cause the enemy to yellow out.