Tari

4C > 236ABA isn't stable for j.2[C], iirc. And yes, double super enders do more damage at the end of long combos. The minimum damage from double super is around 1.1 or 1.2k, whereas the minimum damage on IW alone is around 1k. Even taking into account the extra slash at the end (which adds around 50-70 damage, I think?), the extra 100-200 damage from the supers is more worthwhile. Delay your j.236A. It's fairly easy to tell whether it will cross up or not based on where the opponent is when you hit with j.236A.

I don't believe it affects your stats, but it does prevent people from saving replays and the likes, so it can be pretty annoying. It also does tend to come across somewhat badly because of the fact that almost no other game allows you to exit matches mid-match without plug pulling. I guess the point is, you're basically doing the equivalent of playing a casual with someone IRL and hitting the start button every time a game is about to end, without actually letting any match finish.

4c > 2c > 236b > 236a > 9d > j.2[c] > 66c > j.236a > j.6c > j.214b > 66b > 236b > 236a > 236c > 214cd - 5033 in vorpal (6288 in veil off with IW instead of 214cd) You can probably do a little more, but I'm not really sure where. 4C seems to be the best combo starter for punishes, with close 236B CH and 5C CH being close seconds. You can get 5056 damage by starting with 236C, but I'm not really a fan of that. Go for it! I was considering doing something similar, but I'm too lazy to organize my notes (I think I'm at ~1500 lines of notes, lol). I think there are combos on the Mizuumi wiki, but haven't actually looked at them, so I don't know if they're decent or not. I find the Waldstein MU pretty annoying as well. Getting hit once leads to corner pressure for Wald, from which it's a massive guessing game as to how to escape or abare him. As for 66C > j.236A > j.214X, it's almost always j.214A in that situation. You can also use j.214AD, which is occasionally more stable because you pretty much can never cross up with it. j.214B is used in the extended damage route: 66C > j.236A > j.(6)C > j.214B~D > 66B. I highly suggest people learn the extended damage route, by the way. It's not overly difficult to perform, and you get better damage and corner carry from it. j.214A is used for 66C > j.236A > j.214A(D) > 2C and 66C > j.236A > j.236B > j.236A > j.214AD > 2C routes. There are situations where you will have to use j.214B after j.236A, but this should never occur after a j.2[C] hit. It's a height (66C hits a high airborne opponent) or timing (you do j.236A very delayed) dependent thing. This situation doesn't occur that often, and isn't a key point in most combo routes. The only route I can think of where it matters very much is something like a sideswap ...236A~[C] > 421B > 236A > 9D > j.C > 66C... because of how high that 66C catches.

I don't believe chain shift adds any hitstun to a combo? It just makes it so you have no recovery if you chain shift mid combo (ala rapid cancel). Didn't bother double checking, but it sounds a bit strange. With enough GRD, you get longer vorpal carryover, but it does not appear to affect untech or hitstun. ====== On counterhits: Counter and High Counter do not add 1.5 or 2 times hitstun to your entire combo (see two paragraphs below). They do add hitstun to the first hit of a combo, and they do remove the assault penalty on overheads, as well apply any special counterhit properties to the first move of a combo. Counter and High Counter also have different effects on airborne and grounded opponents. Against airborne opponents, they extend untech time by 1.5 and 2 times, respectively (haven't actually checked to make sure it's 1.5x and 2x, but it's a very sizable amount that generally seems to just make the opponent ground tech). Against grounded opponents, Counter and High Counter have the same effects as each other. They seem to add between 0 frames (ie: Sion 5A) and 3 frames (ie: Yuzu 5C) of extra hitstun. There may be moves that add more than 3 frames. Counter and High Counter do, in fact, add very slight amounts of extra hitstun to an entire combo, but the amount added appears to be based on how much extra hitstun the opening move of the combo generates on a grounded counterhit, not an aerial one. For example, a long combo for Yuzu that starts from 5A CH (which generates 2 frames of extra hitstun) ends with the opponent teching 1 frame later than usual. The same combo started from a 5C CH (which generates 3 extra frames of hitstun) ends with the opponent teching 2 frames later than usual. It's not a huge amount. It does exist. There seem to be moves that generate 0 frames of extra hitstun (again, Eltnum 5A) on CH, so I don't actually know what the rule for this is. There may be move levels involved, but I'm too lazy to look into that. There is definitely some sort of ruleset being followed here, though. Multi-hit moves do not benefit from the effects of Counter or High Counter, because only the first hit of a multi-hit move that connects with the opponent will get the untech/hitstun benefit. Having said that, there are likely multi-hit moves in the game with special counterhit properties that circumvent this limitation. I haven't looked into it too much. Counter and High Counter have no effect on hitstop. There is SMP in this game on specials, though perhaps not on all specials. It's hard to tell without spending way too much time. If anyone wants the raw frame data for this stuff, feel free to ask. I've been wondering how the counterhit system in this game works for weeks, and I'm still not really sure. Only started looking at frame data for it in the past few hours, though. I can also post a more extensive list of system mechanics, but I think most people understand the general system mechanics at this point. edit: edited out the smp info, since it appears to be incorrect (thanks, errol)

Depending on the height you hit the opponent at with j.214A/B, you might have to pick up the combo with 2B or 5A, but you can always go into the relaunch loop from those starters, as long as you can reach the opponent before they hit the ground.

Yes, it loses to all lows. I'm not completely sure on how the game decides what moves 4B can or can't counter. I thought it was based on upper body properties, but I can't prove that. There's probably no real reason to think about too much, anyway. If it hits the coat before or on the same frame it hits any other part of Yuzu (and it isn't a low or throw), you can counter it.

Sorry, I suppose I should have said that it was 'also' a bad idea to use it because it doesn't counter things that don't touch the scarf. I wasn't refuting your point, I just wanted to make it clear that the counter isn't actually insanely slow. It has its purpose, and is a fairly good anti-air tool, but it isn't a reversal.

If you aren't holding the in A in the 236A, you will have a harder time doing any 236A > 421C > j.214B combos consistently. You have a pretty long window to do the j.214B in, provided that you do the 421C immediately. Any string can be net friendly if you have the muscle memory for it. If you don't, however, it's best to avoid tight timings. @Starrk: We have extensive amounts of frame data available already (see posts #190, #193, and #203) if you're looking for accurate values. 4B can counter things as early as frame 8. The hit on 4B (if you don't counter something) is frame 18. Having said that, it's not a great idea to use 4B in pressure because it only counters things that actually touch Yuzu's coat, and half the moves in the game won't touch it.

Pad Yuzu, to my understanding, just requires some ingenious binding of buttons, or a claw grip. I'd say it's easier on stick, but players who are used to pad can definitely work around it.

I don't think you can do much more after 66c if you use that combo ender, but it should work up to there. You can also use 2b to relaunch or omit the relaunch normal and just jump immediately to j.b. (this is most stable for very high j.214b hits).

Anti-air: 5c j.b j.6c j.214b land, relaunch air loop, slashes, ender. (on my phone, sorry)

Random info that people might have already known: - If you end a string of stance moves with a final, D-paired teleport (421 A/B/C + D), you can cancel the recovery of the teleport into any other stance move. - 214C is completely invuln during startup, and stays invuln up until what is probably the first active frame (haven't looked into it much). - If you find yourself facing away from an opponent after teleporting into the sky, stance dashes and stance dodge will flip you around, assuming you don't just teleport back out of there. - If you do a stance jump cancel and exit stance, you won't be able to re-enter stance until you land. You can still perform j.6A/B/C, however, and you can still cancel any hit into 1 stance special, but the startup on that cancel is very long (same as if you'd done a D-paired input). - Because of how fast teleport startup is while you're in stance, it's actually viable to teleport on superflash against people who try to super punish you for whiffing a slash (or having a slash blocked). It obviously depends on the startup of the super or how fast the opponent reacts, but when you can't dodge or block a super, it's worth trying to teleport.

I haven't played against many Linnes yet, but it feels like you just have to block well if she gets on you. Shield guard to push her out, use 4C and 2B to punish her if she tries to dash back in with things, or 4B to punish her for close-range fireballs (though this generally is a call-out option). If you jump out of something, you can teleport away safely, as well. Your normals generally outrange hers (outside of very close range options), so you can control some space with 5C/2C in neutral. Slashes feel more unsafe in this matchup unless you have her respecting your mid-range options and aren't at immediate risk of being rushed down or punished. Having said that, you can pretty comfortably trade a slash or a 6a/b/c with any of her fireballs. VS Eltnum: Be prepared to block a lot if she gets on you. Use shield liberally to force her to make more decisions about how to pressure you. Watch out for throws. If she starts the round with gunshot, you can beat it by holding up-forward before the round starts and jumping over it. You can punish her with falling j.C into stuff (not 5A, you aren't close enough). You may also be able to simply walk backwards and 236B her, haven't really tested it. Her 22B is very + on block (apparently +8?), so respect it if you block it. If she does 5C > 5CC, you can hold up-forward and jump out in the middle of the two moves. If you block 5CC, prepare to keep blocking, because it's also very + on block. The mixup there is that she can instead do 5C > 214A, which beats jumping and gets her a free combo (though it's a hard one midscreen, execution-wise). Make sure you know the range of your slashes. If you whiff anything at full screen and she's fast on the trigger, she can EX gunshot to punish you. If she's slow on the trigger, you can teleport your slash recovery and punish her for the late super. You cannot stance dodge the gunshot super, it lasts too long. Air-to-air, you have better range than she does, but she has a much scarier move at close range (her j.C/j.[C]). If you find her jumping at you air-to-air, you can try to shield the j.C, but be wary of her air throw. Reinforced bullets make her 236A/B moves better on block, apparently. Haven't looked into this, but it's worth noting. Her 22A/B moves are unchanged on block. VS Gordeau: If he starts the round with either Grim Reaper or A Mortal Slide, you can beat it with a consistently timed walk backwards into backdash, and then 236B punish him. This loses to his B Mortal Slide, but it only trips you and he doesn't get a combo from it unless he's mashing 236B really hard. Alternatively, you can also jump back (hold up-back at the start) and wait to see what he does, because the A Grim Reaper and A/B Mortal Slides won't hit you in that position. Make sure to wait to punish him, though, because if you do a move too early, you'll extend your hurtbox into the Grim Reaper and get hit. B Grim Reaper will just hit you, though. If you're feeling a round-start B Grim Reaper, you can 4B at the start and counter it into a full combo. If you are caught jumping out of the corner or something and find yourself above Gordeau when he begins an EX Grim Reaper, you can attempt to use j.214C to invuln and flip out of the way. You generally won't be able to punish him, but he won't be able to punish you, either. This is very spacing dependent, so do it at your own risk. If you block 66C (shoulder tackle) and expect a 22A, you can always micro-dash 5A to stuff it. You don't need to shield. If you do shield, it makes this option much easier and safer, and also allows you to use 4B to counter the scythe slam if you wish. VS Merkava: If he uses his grabby extendo-arms, you can shield the hit and punish with 236B, as long as you're in range.

Is it confirmed or not if we can 4B > 3C on block? Can't remember if there are any gatlings in the game that are hit-only, but I figure it's worth asking. I love that overhead, as much as it may suck.

Folks, if you are trying to sign up for the tournament, please do so through this link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1YkplOIceNChKyyAxeEZPJouqV4ib_NuQxHvofxJOmVg/edit If you only post in this thread and don't actually sign yourself up, you will not be entered in the tournament! This doesn't seem to be a huge issue yet, but I want to make sure people have this done correctly. Read the first post more thoroughly for more details. ---- On a related note, what happens if we can't get enough players to fill out a team? Not sure it'll actually be an issue, but we definitely have a couple empty teams at the moment. ...and a lot of Vatistas.

Do you guys have a list of changes announced for her anywhere? I looked a little and didn't see them, probably looking in the wrong places. Haven't bothered looking at the JP BBS, because it hurts my head to go there (I can't read Japanese!), haha.

Oh, you're pulling it from that video. I see. I hadn't bothered looking into it because of the character specific stuff in it. People who mirror videos from nico need to at least link the original videos, especially since they don't seem to care about copying the creator's comments over. From an assault starter, that combo path only works on a few characters: Orie, Hyde, Akatsuki, Gordeau, and Hilda. It works universally from a non-assault starter, though if you're in the corner, you have to make sure you do an 8 stance jump cancel and not a 9 or the 2C hitbox won't reach them. You can alternatively also delay the j.B a little after 4B, but either option works for lowering the opponent after the air string.

Does anyone know if the remote play works on psp? There's no real reason to use it, but it might be sort of entertaining to watch replays on the go even if you don't own a vita.

4C doesn't have a guaranteed path into 2C. The 2C also just straight up doesn't work in some situations (ie: vs Chaos).

Use 66B instead of 4C > 2C (ie: ...236A > 8/9D > j.C > (land) 66B > 236B > 421A~D > ...). Where are you getting that combo from? It looks like someone wrote a j.2[C] combo route instead of a j.C route by accident.

I think everyone panics a little in various situations. It's just easier for players with less match experience to run into that problem. Even players who have played a lot of matches can panic pretty quickly if they run into an opponent who just reads everything they do and outplays them. I've been told that it helps to try to calm down and take a few breaths, then to play the game with a more analytical mindset (like "What is his goal, what is he doing here, how does he react if I do X?"), but that probably varies from person to person. I've had difficulty adopting that sort of approach, myself, especially in a tournament setting, where it feels like there's much more pressure to make something happen. In the case of BB or any other game without an option to playback a replay upon exiting blockstun, couldn't you just a record a dummy down-backing for a few frames and then start mashing 5A like mad? When played back, the dummy will be stuck in blockstun until a gap shows up where the 5A can actually come out. Even in games with the option to start playback after exiting blockstun, you sometimes have to use ghetto workarounds to limitation, as is the case in UNIEL. Even though the dummy can be set to playback after they exit blockstun, you can't set the dummy to actually block anything. You end up having to record the mash that you want, followed by the dummy blocking for a short period, then play the entire sequence (by hitting the dummy once) until it starts blocking, from where you can actually test whatever you wanted to. Obviously this is no good against high/low mixup strings, but that's one of those limitations we just have to live with. Also, apologies for going on a bit of a tangent with that.

It's definitely +3, but you have to space it properly. If you do it too close to or too far from the opponent, you give up your advantage. If you're too close, the hits all connect too early before you land and you end up neutral or negative on block, and if you do it too far, you run the risk of not getting all the hits and/or pushing yourself too far from the opponent to actually mash 5A. You also have to remember to d-cancel the move before you touch the ground.

I'll drop my notes here after I clean them up, but here's a fun bit of random tech in the meantime: vs Gordeau: If he does Grim Reaper > EX Mortal Slide and you happen to shield the second hit of grim reaper (not too hard), you can mash out a 214C in the gap. Yuzu will slide under the EX Mortal Slide startup and counterhit Gordeau out of it. You can't combo it without vorpal, since the last hit of 214C puts the opponent in an invulnerable state, but it's still pretty nice. Credit to tenkai for finding this, haha. vs Merkava: If he does wakeup EX noodle hands, you can just 4B it on the superflash.

Updated j.2c value, definitely miscounted the frames, haha. Updated my list with the rest of the data I bothered getting. Seems to agree with yours, van, though your 2A advantage seems off.

Did you use assault to test the overheads? I realized after I tested that assaulting before the overheads was a terrible idea, because it lets you buffer the input on the rising portion of the jump and generates weird numbers if you only look at the button press timing. It's why I need to double-check my j.2c value, though I ended up doing that one the old-fashioned way and just counting from the first frame of animation anyway. I'll go back and double-check it later tonight to see if I get the same numbers as you. edit: I'll have to double-check my numbers tomorrow. Passing out.