Tari

Don't know the exact frame data on that. Could probably find out with a recording of 66 j.C played back in training mode by the dummy saved to a video, but I'm too lazy. It's fast enough that regardless of a j.236C~D, 6B, or 3C ender, you can 66 j.C safe jump in all of those situations.

See the 'Starter Rating' section: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Damage_(BBCP)#Combo_System Each move a character has has a starter value attached to it. You can see the full list of starter ratings for your character's moveset on their frame data page: http://www.dustloop.com/wiki/index.php?title=Frame_Data_(BBCP)

I played Platinum a bit this last Saturday in casuals and noticed that I crossed under a few characters with the ...6A > 6B > 3C ender in the corner. I think one of the characters that happened on was Tao? Haven't really tested it since then, but is that just a timing issue or do I have to change my ender?

5C in GA mode is jump cancellable on block. It is not jump cancellable in normal mode. 2C is, of course, never a low for Izayoi in either mode, but is a good starter if you manage to land it and, perhaps most importantly, has incredible frame advantage on block in GA mode (+5), which allows you to start your pressure all over again. It is unfortunately not jump cancellable on block in either mode, though it is jump cancellable on hit in GA mode. Chains into 6B and 3C. Your immediate actual mixup options after GA 5C (tk Noir and 3C) are both quite unsafe on block, and 3C doesn't net you anything more than knockdown on normal hit (though it's quite amazing as a fatal counter starter), so be careful not to overuse those options and to instead use 2C, 236D, or a jump cancel to keep your pressure safer and less predictable. Keep in mind that a knowledgeable opponent may opt to just stand-block after 5C if they think you're going to do tk Noir, since they won't lose much health if they guessed wrong, assuming you don't have 50 meter to RC your decision. It's safest to only do the tk mixup when you have meter to make it safe on block. If you think the opponent will try to jump out of your strings, you can also chain into 6C as a call-out. Safe on block (+1 on normal block) and a somewhat decent combo starter. No guardpoint invuln on the GA version, unfortunately, but definitely better on block. -- I started writing more than what's here, but I realized I was beginning to write a run-down of all of her normals and gatlings, so I stopped myself from continuing. >_> Worth mentioning that you can pretty much special cancel any of Izayoi's normals aside from 6A and GA 6C, so you always have the option of either doing a 236/623+B/C special and teleport cancelling it on block. Not really the best option for continuing pressure, though. Pretty tired, so I hope I didn't mess anything up in here.

Yup, the cars are low, the follow-ups are mid.

If you're doing stagger pressure from 5A/2A, you can also mix people up with a delayed low or dashing overhead or whatever, but other than that, there's no way to get to a low after you've already dashed aside from whiffing a move (usually air throw) or just letting the dash run out (which takes forever).

It does indeed have 9 active frames, so it is fairly hard for him to time the backdash. Depending on where he is, he can definitely just get out of range with those backwards wolf dashes, though, even if he doesn't bother timing the invuln.

If you start a Phorizer when he's in wolf form, he can probably just go into one of his backwards wolf dashes, which have invuln from frames 1-10. It's how he gets out of a lot of sticky situations as a wolf. The general old suggestion for not dealing with wolf mixup was to chicken block, but it was never really the most useful advice. His mixup in wolf form isn't as insane in this game, so staying on the ground and blocking and barriering is somewhat more viable. Haven't really played Valk in this game, so those points are more or less from what I got from the, like, one game I played in CP and from what I remember from CSE.

It was pointed out to me that CP is a very different game compared to CS2/CSE, so it makes sense to make a new thread. So here's a new thread, with the CP posts merged into it. I'll leave the CSE thread out of the archives for now, since we probably still have a decent number of players on that version of the game. Apologies for any confusion!

I stand corrected. Someone had told me his ice cars were all overhead in this game, and I hadn't played any Jins to find out if they really were or not. Well... unless you count unlimited Jin, where they're both lows and highs. Thanks for the catch.

It's definitely easiest to input the wind before jumping. It is possible to do it the other way around, but it's somewhat harder to time. If you input the wind first, though, watch out for super jumping accidentally. The zoning comes with time, typically. Most players aren't used to way Rachel's lobelias are used for blocking off screen space, so it takes a while to get the hang of deciding how to use them. If you can't decide on what to summon, the pumpkin is usually a good place to start. Having the pumpkin out gives you that 'last wall' immediately, before you start setting up the forward walls. Trying to set up the forward walls without your defense in place is often just asking the opponent to run at you willy-nilly and counterhit you out of a lobelia toss. When you get more used to the way Rachel's lobelias zone, you'll find that it is possible to block screen space and movement with lobelias and sword iris before you summon a pumpkin, but it's probably not the most intuitive style to start from. 6A is a pretty standard anti-air. It's very good, but it has the same caveats as most other 6As in the game. If you find yourself whiffing it because they're double jumping or because you're using it too early, it may be beneficial to delay using it. If they're really high up in the air, Rachel actually has a fairly good set of air-to-air normals with j.B (horizontal space) and j.C (vertical space), so you can try using those, as well. Rachel is fairly bad at dealing with RTSD. If she gets cornered, her defensive options are counter-assault and cat chair, neither of which are particularly great options. Valk has a very good pressure game that often just turns into his opponent blocking and waiting until his wolf meter runs out, unfortunately. You can try chicken blocking (jumping and holding barrier), but it's not really a great option, and your barrier will run out fairly fast if you do it often. His mixup, fortunately, has become noticeably worse in this game in wolf form, so if you can block correctly for a little while (or barrier + IB and shove him out for a little space), you can probably jump out or 2A/5B his reapproach. Jin has his usual annoying pressure game. The ice cars remain very punishable, so block them standing (they're overheads in this game) and then just 5B or 5A him for the free hit. If he's jumping a lot for his overheads, you can 6A him out of it, especially in the corner. If he's doing the cross-up jumps midscreen, it's a bit harder to 6A, but those tend to also leave larger gaps for you to move around or punish him in. Izayoi is somewhat harder to explain how to deal with. If you let her get her stocks and start her GA mode RTSD game, you're probably going to have a bit of trouble. The main trick in this matchup is to hit her with something and then corner carry and knock her down. Izayoi has literally no reversals. None. Her wakeup super is considered her only reversal, but most characters, Rachel included (I think, haven't tested it), can get around it with correct oki setups. Always do frog oki on her in the corner if possible. If you can't do frog oki when she has 50 meter, then summon a pumpkin and do a forward jump, because it will likely put you above and behind her wakeup super if she uses it, allowing you to just hit her in the face with a falling normal before she can teleport cancel the super. Try to avoid blocking or getting hit by her projectiles when she's in normal mode. You can destroy them with pumpkin or 5B if you want to stay on the ground, or you can just jump over them. Once you have pressure going, Izayoi is pretty much dead. It literally just comes down to the Izayoi player guessing right or wrong a few times after that, and even if they guess right, it's hard for them to make anything happen, because rods and the pumpkin will probably still be on screen. Oh. If the Izayoi player does a raw teleport, just mash some normals that aren't 5A. A pretty standard trick is to do a suicidal teleport and follow it with her 623C. It's terrible as a trick, because it loses to mashed moves, so just hit her in the face with 2A or something. If you block it, she can teleport cancel it to safety or to try the gimmick again, so it's best to just hit her.

Honestly, nothing bothers me as much as the change to 3C. That knockback is just... weird. I keep wanting to use it for midscreen oki, or trying to end a somewhat extended corner combo with long-range 3C > CDT. Neither one wooooorks. :|

I was considering remaking the thread for CP, but we've been using the same thread for these critiques since CS2, so I left it. If people want a new thread, that's all fine by me, too. As far as the videos go, I checked out the first match. I don't really want to critique too much because I haven't played Rachel very much in CP yet (planning on rectifying this soon), but it seems like your friend could benefit from learning to end his midscreen combos in knockdown and oki. There's also some neutral game that he seems to be learning, but not quite fully grasped yet. Things like when to summon and when to fire which lobelias, etc. For one, summoning a frog in neutral (even at full screen, though in this case he wasn't that far away) before having other things out is really risky. Don't use a frog to cover summoning a pumpkin, instead, use a pumpkin to cover summoning the frog. Learning to hitconfirm and apply mixup is pretty important as well, but I think neutral game should probably take priority over it. Mixup and hitconfirming is useless if you can't touch the opponent. We have a very handy guide that helps explain how to use Rachel's tools effectively, if he isn't sure about how to do it yet. I'll leave more detailed critique to the other folks for now.

Ah. Ranked. -sigh- Been avoiding it as always, haha. I suppose I'll have to deal with it to get that avatar.

Well, yeah. I did it that way on purpose, to clearly show that the marks get obscured, but in a real situation, they shouldn't show up at all in the first place.

Good to know. I'll have to mess with that combo path more later on.

Is the j.C > 2C(1) path height specific? I messed around with it earlier and ended up not using it for some reason. Maybe it was just execution, haha.

Ah, I see. Yeah, if an Izayoi is just doing that teleport in the sky without either getting you to block or calling something out, it's a free punish. You'll usually not see them yolo teleporting like that, haha. In this matchup (and honestly, pretty much any matchup), the most likely place you'll see that teleport on its own is as a call-out against Terumi's 6A if she's approaching from the air.

Ah, good to know. You didn't tell me how to get crazy Platinum avatar, though.

The lowest cost confirm is the one you're doing. There's also Air Throw > 6C > air combo for stability, but it does really mediocre damage. The other path involves air grab into 236C > 6D > etc. for a normal combo route. 6C route - 2.6k damage (1 stock) j.C route - 2.8k damage (1 stock) air throw > 236C > 6D > 214B > 5B > 5C > sj.B > j.C > jc j.B > j.C > j.236C > j.D - 3267 (3160 without 5B) (2 stock)

Against the blackhole setup, if the Kokonoe doesn't use the 22B (lightning rod) setup, Izayoi can roll and run out in normal mode. In GA mode, you're screwed, because her dash doesn't get out of the blackhole after a roll. If the Kokonoe uses the 22B setup, there's nothing you can do. The best thing to do in this case is to tech on frame 8 of the emergency tech window and then immediately backdash. This will reduce the amount of lightning you get hit by (the lowest I got to was 2 hits, which reduces it by 1045 damage) while still applying the lightning's proration to the rest of the black hole combo, which should reduce the damage by a further 1k or so. So instead of 7.5k, you'll only take 5.5-6k in damage. Not really great, but it at least reduces the amount of pain there is.

3C is still bothering me. I just can't get used to how it knocks back, now. It was a pretty staple part of my stagger mixup before, but now I can't even get bubble oki off of it. Aaargh. How do you unlock this avatar. D: Did they change how 22C works after Mami in this game? You used to be able to 22C to chase people, too. I mean, it wouldn't hit (unless you did the forward jump trick and they rolled), but it got you there pretty fast.

1. If he does growler, just 5C him. It's completely, totally, infinitely, supremely worth it. :D If he's doing it on wakeup in response to George oki, just run up and do 2C before George activates, or don't do George oki. It's safe against pretty much everything except wakeup throws. It's worth mentioning that if Growler absorbs a projectile, it basically becomes unpunishable. There's apparently a small window in which you can hit him, but it's pretty much impossible to do it if it exists. 2. The pumpkin can only negate projectiles, not clash with moves. I'm not sure if it can negate any of the hits on the stone wall, but the stone wall is, according to the frame data, two projectiles, so it won't get both of them. 3. He has quite a number of moves that are safe on block. You can see his frame data for which moves are unsafe. Sorry I can't offer precise information at the moment, but I haven't played enough Azrael's to know what they tend to do in their blockstrings.

Against people who mash 5A, you shouldn't even bother running mixup. Just hit them in the face a few times with 5B or something and end the game. The throw whiff can be used as mixup, because people will likely be waiting for the block before they actually switch to blocking low. Even if they aren't, the fall is much faster than normal just because there's no actual hit occurring. It's risky, it loses to 6A like everything else you do from a dash in GA mode, and it isn't something you should be doing all the time, but it's worth knowing and keeping on hand for when you want to try something else.

Not sure where you got the idea that she can only D teleport in the air, but she can definitely just do it on the ground. The most common approach tactic is to get the opponent to block a saber and then teleport to them to start pressure. Be careful about trying to poke after 5B, because it's pretty easy for her to just cancel into 6C and fatal counter if you do something there. You can do a reversal inbetween 5B and 6C, though, if you know it's coming. Also worth mentioning that her only fatal in GA mode is a long ranged low, so don't spam counter in pressure, because it just leads to easy 5k+ damage if she has 2 stocks. Can't really comment on anything else, since I play Izayoi, not Terumi. :|